Trouble with LFS, Did Salinity Kill my fish??

[2farNorth]

Sorry if this is a long read, but bare with me!!

Ok, I need some opinions, or thoughts on this one.. I recently purchased a Lawnmower Blenny from the LFS,, Long story, but out of the 3 she got in from the distributor, only 1 lived,,,,She thought the fish died, jumped out, or whatever, but when I was there, it swam out to the front of the tank, we were both surprised the fish was in there!!,, So I had to get him!!
I know I made the biggest mistake when I didn't see the fish eat... but I figured, (go figure!) that if it was going to eat, It would do it in my tank!!
Now my tank has been running for a good 3 months, cycled great, I have snails, hermits, and a blue damsel. (more on that later)
I brought the fish home, acclimation went good, fish went in (2nd mistake). Checked on it in the morning before work, fish was ok..came home, the fish was dead... Called the LFS, she asked me what my water parameters were,.... they are...

Salinity/SG 1.024
PH 8.25
Ammonia 0
Trite 0
Trate 0
Temp 76.9
90g AGA, with 55g sump, 23g fuge

She told me the PH and SG are wayyyy too high for my tank!! That's what killed the LMB!! Now granted, I don't have a full on reef tank yet, but my tank is stable at these parameters,,

She wants me to lower my SG, and PH before I add anymore fish to the tank!! (She wants PH around 8.1, and SG around 1.021)
She then said, that only a full reef tank with corals should have readings that high....

What do you think?? Everything is doing great at my settings, I don't want to move anything... (this is the same LFS that had no idea what chaeto is, what a refugium is, or a refractometer!)

Any help would be great!! I would like to get my LMB soon, I think I will be ordering one online or something but I want to make sure of this first!!.. this LFS is starting to bug me.... That and the fish didn't make it 24 hrs. and no refund! granted alot of places don't have refunds, but I've been going to this place for years!!

I personally think, the fish wasn't eating, was stressed, and when the lights came on the next day, he probably swam too closed to the little blue devils hole, and died of stress, he was in an odd spot stuck between a couple rocks, which may also be part of the death, (he seemed kinda stuck in there!) OR there was some other health problems with him, he wasn't as 'plump' as other LMB's I've seen...

What do you guys think??

 

[theatrus]

If you acclimated by dripping or some other method beyond just temperature, the salinity should not have been a problem. I run 1.026 commonly myself. A pH 8.2 is also just fine.

 

[Billybeau1]

I think I would stop buying fish from that LFS.

She is obviously not very knowledgable about marine tanks.

 

[2farNorth]

That's what I mean!! It was drip Acclimation, and at least a good 1 1/2 hour!! (I'm always cautious!)

Any other comments?? This has me frustrated!! (the LFS is very set in their ways)

Now I know that some Fish Only tanks I've seen people run a little lower parameters,, but thats usually for oxygen reasons and such... (i'm probably wrong, but it sounds good!)

 

[2fishy]

I read your response in the other thread! So I guess you are 2farnorth D ), to suggest driving to Rhinelander for your fish! That would be a long trip if 80 miles is one way! Bummer that they won't warranty the fish! I think that your tank parameters were fine. On my last check, specific gravity 1.025 and pH was at 8.2.

 

[kass03]

I agree I think she's nuts lol and get a different LFS.
I keep my salinity around 1.024 (although thats measured from a hydrometer so who knows but Ive been doing it that way for over 20 yrs) and my PH always ran around 8.3 or 8.4.

I will say when you purchase fish locally they don't have to be acclimated quite that long. I usually do about 45 minutes to an hour. First 10 getting temp right. The bag time does stress them but doubt thats why it died.
When they are shipped to you thats different cuz the PH and other levels can be way off cuz they were in a bag overnight.

Possibly the damsel beat the crap out of it. I would suggest on your next fish to let the lights off the first day or at least watch them to see if they fight. If your going to be gone then let the lights off until you get home and can observe.
This allows the new fish to get used to surroundings without being harassed.

Yeah 2fishy Doc Fosters is a great place and has a great guarantee. It's about a 3 hour drive for me 1 way though so I only go to the coral conference once a yr.
The tour of the aquaculture coral facility is really cool to see.
They don't really have alot of tanks set up for fish though to buy locally but nice if you live near them.
I wish I was closer cuz I'd love to work there lol.

kass

 

[kravi]

Your stats are fine. PH of 8.2(ish) is perfect, IMHO.

Your salinity is pretty much the standard out there. A lot of people say that 1.022 is perfect, but...

In the wild, the water is, what, 1.030+? So your 1.026 isn't even high. I'm thinking of slowly, over the course of a month or two, boosting my salinity to 'natural' levels anyway. But, that's besides the point, the problem isn't your salinity or ph levels at all.

--Me

 

[2fishy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8241215#post8241215 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kass03
I agree I think she's nuts lol and get a different LFS.
I keep my salinity around 1.024 (although thats measured from a hydrometer so who knows but Ive been doing it that way for over 20 yrs) and my PH always ran around 8.3 or 8.4.

I will say when you purchase fish locally they don't have to be acclimated quite that long. I usually do about 45 minutes to an hour. First 10 getting temp right. The bag time does stress them but doubt thats why it died.
When they are shipped to you thats different cuz the PH and other levels can be way off cuz they were in a bag overnight.

Possibly the damsel beat the crap out of it. I would suggest on your next fish to let the lights off the first day or at least watch them to see if they fight. If your going to be gone then let the lights off until you get home and can observe.
This allows the new fish to get used to surroundings without being harassed.

Yeah 2fishy Doc Fosters is a great place and has a great guarantee. It's about a 3 hour drive for me 1 way though so I only go to the coral conference once a yr.
The tour of the aquaculture coral facility is really cool to see.
They don't really have alot of tanks set up for fish though to buy locally but nice if you live near them.
I wish I was closer cuz I'd love to work there lol.

kass

Yeah, not a lot of tanks but maybe they will consider adding on to the store eventually. Especially with the success of the coral conference. It looks like they are planning for it to be bigger next year. Start planning that vacation!

http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/general.cfm?general_pagesid=404

 

[dc]

I keep all my tanks at about .025 so does the pet store here. If 2 out ot 3 died, I wouldn't have even brought it home. I know people do have trouble with blennies getting them to eat.

I think she's blowing smoke, so how would fish live if it was a reef and salinity was up, but not if there was only fish in it? That doesn't even make sense. Some of the people in those stores just can't admit they have no idea.

 

[2farNorth]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8241215#post8241215 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kass03

Possibly the damsel beat the crap out of it. I would suggest on your next fish to let the lights off the first day or at least watch them to see if they fight. If your going to be gone then let the lights off until you get home and can observe.
This allows the new fish to get used to surroundings without being harassed.



kass

Yup, the lights were off from the time he went in,, until 1 in the afternoon the next day,, (close to 16 hours) and the wife said he was in the spot he died, before the lights came on... go figure... next time, I will be home the next day so I can observe....

Bag (floating bag) acclimation was for about 15 minutes.. and the rest was drip... That's what I meen.. I really don't think that was the problem , maybe the damsel had something to do with it,(although he doesn't come out till the lights come on, kinda like a switch,, lights of, hides, lights on, out on patrol) or he got stuck in the rocks, OR he was sick to begin with.... he did look fairly skinny...

 

[2farNorth]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8241358#post8241358 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dc
I keep all my tanks at about .025 so does the pet store here. If 2 out ot 3 died, I wouldn't have even brought it home. I know people do have trouble with blennies getting them to eat.

I think she's blowing smoke, so how would fish live if it was a reef and salinity was up, but not if there was only fish in it? That doesn't even make sense. Some of the people in those stores just can't admit they have no idea.

Yup, that was my 1st mistake.. (never again!) but she tried to oder LMB the last couple times, (waited over a month or so) and I got excited when he was there... this never woulda happened if I would've waited to get him, at least until I seen him eat...

 

[dc]

Unfortunately we all make mistakes. Just be patient, nothing good happens in a hurry in saltwater.

 

[2farNorth]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8241317#post8241317 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 2fishy
Yeah, not a lot of tanks but maybe they will consider adding on to the store eventually. Especially with the success of the coral conference. It looks like they are planning for it to be bigger next year. Start planning that vacation!

http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/general.cfm?general_pagesid=404

Were planning on checking them out this fall (ok soon, it is fall!!).. And definitely planning on attending the Conference next year!!!

 

[boxfishpooalot]

I think your ph is great, and you SG is a little low. I would bump the SG to natural average seawater values(1.026). What device do you use to measure salinity?

 

[2farNorth]

I use a refractometer, it is a little over 1.024, more like 1.0245 (closer to .025) never tried a hydrometer, I might get one just to check it out, (as a back-up) but this is how I've ever checked it,, and it is calibrated.. so....

 

[kass03]

refractometers are more accurate than hydrometers so you don't need a hydrometer. I'm just too lazy to get one lol as Ive never had a salinity problem that I know of.

For sure check out the coral conference. It's awesome.
I went the last 2 yrs and was a trader this yr. We all got free aquapods for being traders.
Like I said the tour is really cool to see all the behind the scenes of a coral facility and theirs is top notch along with everyone who works there. They really go out of their way to make you happy.
Book a hotel early as they sell out quick lol.

kass

 

[boxfishpooalot]

when in doubt about somthing, target natural values. If somthing is still wrong, doubt your testing equipment.

I would raise your sg to 1.026 now that I see you have a refractometer and not a hydrometer.Which are prone to inaccuracy.

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8241044#post8241044 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Billybeau1
I think I would stop buying fish from that LFS.

She is obviously not very knowledgable about marine tanks.

If you do, call her up and tell her exactly why you're no longer frequenting their establishment.

 

[Billybeau1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8242074#post8242074 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
If you do, call her up and tell her exactly why you're no longer frequenting their establishment.

Exactly.

 

[nemonick84]

Your tank temp seems a little low. I'd push it up to around 80-81 if it were me. Other than that everything seems fine. If 2 out of 3 died on arrival to the LFS, I suspect the problem goes beyond anything you'll be able to diagnose. I'd switch my LFS if I were you. :worried2: