true ppe's?

[twon8]

i was going by jsreimer's posthere:

Zoanthus/Palythoa ID

The easiest way to seperate these two genera (with Protopalythoa being included in Palythoa) is simple. Palythoa are in the family Sphenopidae, which take up sand and other small particles to help build their structure. Polyp, colony, coenenchyme (the "mat" tissue) and oral disk shape, as well as color, all are very flexible even within not only genera but also within species. Note that Epizoanthus and Parazoanthus also are encrusting (take up sand).

Zoanthus are in Zoanthidae (along with Isaurus and Acrozoanthus) and don't take up sand.

If you are not sure which type of zoanthid you have, take a high-res digital photo, and then zoom in. If you can see sand particles in the tissue, you aren't looking at a Zoanthus!

 

[CoralNutz]

twon8

That talks about the difference between zoanthid and palythoa,

I thought we were talking about the difference between protopalythoa and palythoa....

IMO it's easy to tell the difference between zoa and paly, where I think the confusion is between protopaly and paly...

I always thought of the paly's as just being oversized zoas :lol: and the protopalys as something different. like the top pic that I posted there they are all wafery. The oral discs aren't as thick (from top to bottom) and the tenticles are longer and more narrow on the protopalies...

Anyeone else ever notice that in most of the coral books out there, especially the good ones, the zoas/paly's pretty much get left out of the picture and it's all about sps and lps

I think it's about time someone author "Zoanthids and Palythoa from Around the World" or something. Or even a coffee table book with all the pimpest zoas the world has ever seen

(NOTE: I don't know one way or the other. Just making small talk )

 

[twon8]

i don't think the ppe are palythoa, as palythoa have sand in their structure. i think they are zoanthids, but i am really not sure, as there is very little info on this stuff. i love borneman's book but it is sorely lacking in the whole zoanthid chapter.

 

[copps]

A coffee table book would be sweet!

I've been using protopaly and paly synonomously... check out this article that references the subject... Here's a quote...

"New molecular evidence on hexacorals of the genus Palythoa and Protopalythoa suggests that the two are actually all members of a single genus."

This is beside the point I believe... where they're classified does not change the fact that we as hobbyists see a clear difference between the two varieties of photos CoralNutz shows...

Two good examples can be seen in Red Sea and Non Red Sea butterflies...

Example one where there is a difference despite being the SAME species is with Chaetodon auriga. The Red Sea variety lacks the false eye spot on the dorsal fin, yet it's still classified as Chaetodon auriga.

Example two is with the raccoon butterflies... the Red Sea variety lacks a black marking behind the gill... a clear difference like there is in in the C. auriga, but taxonomists classify it as a seperate species...

These both are obviously different... one is a separate species and one isn't...

Taxonomy of Palythoa and Protopalythoa will not change the fact that there is a clear difference to the average hobbyist...

It would be much more convenient however if they were all classified as just Zoanthus!:mad2:

Who cares though... it's Friday:bum:

 

[CoralNutz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7267899#post7267899 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by copps
It would be much more convenient however if they were all classified as just Zoanthus!:mad2:

Who cares though... it's Friday:bum:

I'll drink to that :beer:

 

[surfnvb7]

first of all, coming from a person who does scientific research...just b/c one research paper came up with one conclusion about genus/species doesnt exactly make the world stop turning. a paper could easily come out in the next few months that could debunk the recent one published. not that i'm disagreeing with the findings of the recent well documented article. i'm just saying it really needs to be confirmed by other researchers before we turn the world upside down

and plus, we need to give surf a little time to stop calling them protopalys out of habit. :wavehand:

i like to call the ones with the green mouth the PE's. but i know what copps is talking about, i've seen some forms of pink/red zoa/palys/proto etc. with a slightly noticeable green slit mouth, but look nothing like what the masses are calling PE.

twon, i dont have any good pics right now tried to take some yesterday when i saw your query, but they didnt turn out. i still think yours looked white like that b/c they were being stung by those red shrooms. my frag definitely has a green mouth, with a lime green skirt, that has pink/lime green speckless all across the face.

 

[ReefWifey]

I seem to recall in the Reimer's article something about when PEs are close, they have the little white lines on the outside of the polp. Here's a pic of some of mine where you can see it:

Also, I've noticed that my PEs tend to push their disks up and out such that the skirts are beneath the disk, kinda mushroom looking.

Kam

 

[CoralNutz]

I must have missed it, what's this research paper people are talking about lately? I recall someone mentioning something about those lines your talking about ReefWifey but don't remember when or where. Anyone have a link?

 

[cowcio]

My RPEs have those same white lines when closed.

 

[surfnvb7]

ReefWifey & CoralNutz:
Here is a link to the thread we are referring to, it talks about those distinctive white bands and there should be a link to the research article which classifies PE types as Zoanthid Gigantus, NOT protopalythoa. enjoy!

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=822392

 

[CoralNutz]

Thanks surf


( EDIT: Does anyone know of a way to read the paper without being at a college? Would love to read the actual paper and not just EB's overview of it.)