TTM and ammonia questions

[Thornbreaker]

Hi. I got my first two fish on Sunday. See pic (2 clowns, 5 gallon bucket). I'm about 36 hours in to the first series.

I tested the ammonia this morning and it was probably .2 , light green on the red sea kit. The seachem badge in the bucket has told me nothing (or I'm not reading it right?) fish seem to be swimming okay, but I can't see their tiny gills to see if they've had any physical response.

So I did about a 40% water change. Siphoned what I could out as far as waste. Retesting the water now.

How much ammonia do y'all typically expect during the 3 day transfers?

Does doing a 100% water change reset the first 3 days? Is that advisable?

I have Prime coming in tomorrow. Would it be wise to just reset at day 1 with a new bucket, equipment, and water when I get home from work tonight?

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[RobZilla04]

Um, how long do you plan on keeping the fish in the bucket? Not really clear on what you are asking for help with.

 

[Thornbreaker]

Theoretically till Wed afternoon (started Sunday afternoon) just before 72 hours if the ammonia isn't a problem.

Also, retest after water change was holding yellow, so I think I'm back below .1 ppm at least.



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[allendehl]

Don't sweat it. A couple of clowns in a 5G bucket will do just fine with WC every 3 days (TTM). Keep an eye on the ammonia badge and don't overfeed. They are ok with just a little bit of food to get through TTM and QT before making it into the DT.
I see you have a heater, here in FL I don't need it unless it is super cold. The complexity of it is that the new water temp needs to match the one you are replacing. Make sure you account for that since you cannot reuse the same heater in the new water.

Good luck!

 

[nereefpat]

Um, how long do you plan on keeping the fish in the bucket? Not really clear on what you are asking for help with.

Doing TTM. It's fine to use buckets for this.

You probably won't have ammonia trouble in 72 hrs with those two little clowns. It's good to monitor though. Prime would be easier than water changes if ammonia becomes a problem.

 

[Thornbreaker]

So as long as I stay under .2 I should be good? I may have fed a bit much too, ill plan on just feeding on the 3rd day.

Follow up question. I did see some stringy poop, is that an indication of internal parasites? I ordered some Prazi that'll I'll dose on the next transfer.

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[allendehl]

So as long as I stay under .2 I should be good? I may have fed a bit much too, ill plan on just feeding on the 3rd day.

Follow up question. I did see some stringy poop, is that an indication of internal parasites? I ordered some Prazi that'll I'll dose on the next transfer.

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After my first TTM I did not test for ammonia anymore. I keep my badge and Prime just in case.
I dose Prazy in the 2nd and 3rd transfer to extend the treatment to 7 days.
There is a sticky on top that is really good for this.
About feeding, I do feed daily, just not too much. With only 2 small fish you should not have an issue unless you overfeed by a large amount. I prefer pellets since they are less dirty than flakes, just a pinch would do it. I feed the messier stuff the night before the transfer.

 

[Thornbreaker]

After my first TTM I did not test for ammonia anymore. I keep my badge and Prime just in case.
I dose Prazy in the 2nd and 3rd transfer to extend the treatment to 7 days.
There is a sticky on top that is really good for this.
About feeding, I do feed daily, just not too much. With only 2 small fish you should not have an issue unless you overfeed by a large amount. I prefer pellets since they are less dirty than flakes, just a pinch would do it. I feed the messier stuff the night before the transfer.

Thanks! I have been reading the stickies, I just wasn't sure on rate of ammonia accumulation and preventing bad levels when i don't have Prime handy.

Some of it is nerves too because I want to be sure I'm not making mistakes. At least deadly ones.

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[allendehl]

Oh...you are in better shape than I was a few months ago. I read the sticky about 10 times and still somehow skipped over the air stone part all those times. Ended up suffocating 2 of 4 chromis in 2 days.

 

[MondoBongo]

those prime badges are useless IMO. also, things like AmQuel and Prime can cause fale positive readings for ammonia.

typically i transfer every two days, and on days that i am not transferring i do a ~50% water change and siphon out uneaten food. add a splash of water conditioner, and that usually does just fine for managing ammonia during the process.

 

[Thornbreaker]

Well it's a seachem badge. Apparently hit or miss. I'll try the other one I have.

I'll just test for now once a day just to make sure, and it's good to know a significant water change isn't a problem. This will much easier when my extra equipment arrives tomorrow.



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[lagatbezan]

They will be fine in the buckets, no problem.
I personally do TT every 48 hour. This keeps the ammonia in check and I personally feel like it has a better chances of eradicating ich 100%.
Just make sure you keep your buckets at least 10 feet away from each other and that you thoroughly clean and fully dry all your equipment specially your heaters. Some that have that knob on the top can trap some water in/under it and not fully dry.
If the poop is white and stringy, it might be sign of internal parasites. Metro added to their food with focus for 10 days should resolve it.

 

[Thornbreaker]

They will be fine in the buckets, no problem.
I personally do TT every 48 hour. This keeps the ammonia in check and I personally feel like it has a better chances of eradicating ich 100%.
Just make sure you keep your buckets at least 10 feet away from each other and that you thoroughly clean and fully dry all your equipment specially your heaters. Some that have that knob on the top can trap some water in/under it and not fully dry.
If the poop is white and stringy, it might be sign of internal parasites. Metro added to their food with focus for 10 days should resolve it.

Thanks. Good tip on the heaters. I wouldn't have thought about that. I've got two preset 50 watt heaters coming in tomorrow too. So I can go to 2 day rotation much easier then.

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[thegrun]

As a follow up to part of your initial question, with the tank transfer method water changes need to happen at a maximum of every 72 hours, but you can make water changes as frequently as you like as long as you continue to make water changes for the full 12 days. So you could make 12 daily water changes if you wanted (although that would be overly stressful on the fish).

 

[Thornbreaker]

As a follow up to part of your initial question, with the tank transfer method water changes need to happen at a maximum of every 72 hours, but you can make water changes as frequently as you like as long as you continue to make water changes for the full 12 days. So you could make 12 daily water changes if you wanted (although that would be overly stressful on the fish).

Yes, when I think transfer I think moving the fish. There wasn't much in the sticky on actual water changes to the same bucket/tank during the 72 hour period or how to control ammonia. Being new I appreciate all the responses.

I made a transfer last night, but it ran the clock to 73.5 hours (amazon delivered, but it took the new heater an hour to heat up the fresh saltwater in the 2nd bucket), so I'll be starting the 12 days over. Fish are still happy and seem to have handled the transfer well.

Is it safe to use PraziPro and Prime on the same day, same bucket/tank? I'm seeing mixed comments when searching on this.

 

[nereefpat]

You should be able to use Prazi and Prime in the same tank.

Might be Prime and Copper you're thinking of. That makes a nasty combination.

 

[thegrun]

Yes, when I think transfer I think moving the fish. There wasn't much in the sticky on actual water changes to the same bucket/tank during the 72 hour period or how to control ammonia. Being new I appreciate all the responses.



I made a transfer last night, but it ran the clock to 73.5 hours (amazon delivered, but it took the new heater an hour to heat up the fresh saltwater in the 2nd bucket), so I'll be starting the 12 days over. Fish are still happy and seem to have handled the transfer well.



Is it safe to use PraziPro and Prime on the same day, same bucket/tank? I'm seeing mixed comments when searching on this.

At 73.5 hours I would not restart the 12 day timeline, you should be fine. I do not have any experience using Prime and PraziPro together since I use RO/DI water there is no need for Prime. I would think it's a good idea to dose the prime a day before using the water and PraziPro. Also if you are Treating wrasses they are sensitive to PraziPro and you should only mix it at 80% of the recommended dosage for them. I lost a couple of wrasses due to overdosing the PraziPro. Since cutting back to 80% I haven't lost any. It still seems effective at 80% at least with flukes.


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[Thornbreaker]

Thanks. Two clowns at the moment. Subsequent fish will be a firefish, royal gamma, leopard wrasse (maybe 2), couple of tangs (yellow, tomini), and after a year or so a mandarin. Maybe a goby at some point. Should all fit well together in a 150 display and 35 gallon sump w/ refug.

I'll probably dose Prazi on Friday then, transfer again on Saturday. I'll just stick to water changes on the off chance Prime and Prazi don't mix well at least for the 2nd and 4th transfers.

 

[nereefpat]

At 73.5 hours I would not restart the 12 day timeline, you should be fine.

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Based on my understanding of ich life cycle and TTM, I agree that 73.5 hours should be fine. My understanding comes from this by Humblefish:

"Once a parasite jumps off the fish it begins the stages required to multiple and then release new parasites to further infect the fish. So goal number two is to prevent this from ever happening. The minimum amount of time that this takes is 82 hours (2 hours for the Protomont stage, 8 hours for the Tomont stage, and 72 hours for the Tomite stage). As long as you do your transfers sooner than this amount of time then you prevent reinfection of your fish. However, you wouldn't want to just squeeze by with that time; which is why with TTM it is preferred to do transfers every 72 hours or sooner to give you a reasonable buffer of time before new parasites are released. If you miss the window of opportunity and even a single parasite finds a fish host, then the life-cycle begins all over again and you must go back to the beginning of the TTM process."

 

[MondoBongo]

You should be able to use Prazi and Prime in the same tank.

Might be Prime and Copper you're thinking of. That makes a nasty combination.

i have used prime and amquel with prazi and had no negative interactions.

some of the more sensitive fish might have their appetites suppressed by the prazi, however for all but the most delicate ones i've brought through TTM it hasn't been an issue.