TTM -Should I start over or not?

[lespaul339]

I'm pretty sure I already know the answer to this question, but thought I'd get some advice anyways. My fish are in QT on their 4th transfer. Flame Angel and Yellow Tang. This morning my cheap Tetra heater crapped out and I had to replace it with the other heater I was using for TTM. It hadn't air dried for 24 hours, but was in a bucket soaking with vinegar water for a day and a night. The bottom of the heater wasn't quite submerged but had been soaked in vinegar and air dry while the top part was soaking. I did a quick vinegar wipe on the whole heater with a rag and ran it under some fresh water this morning and put it in the tank right away since the water they were in was below 68* It was an emergency situation where they needed heat ASAP. The fish made it through ok, but know I think I have to start TTM all over again since the heater hadn't air dried for 24 hours. What do you think?

 

[vhuang168]

I would count the next transfer as day 1.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Deinonych]

I personally would restart. Frustrating, I know, but not nearly as frustrating as allowing a parasite to make it through.

 

[lespaul339]

You guys just confirmed what I was thinking. I don't want to have to second guess this down the road. Tomorrow is day 1 of TTM.

 

[CoralsAddiction]

Do you do TTM and put your fishes straight in DT or do you still QT them after? I don't think it would necessarily be a wrong thing to do to place them in QT for observation before re-starting TTM for two reasons. First, they were almost done with TTM, correct? So chances are IF they had parasites (you haven't mentioned specifically if they showed symptoms or if this was prophylactic for new additions) there's a good chance they died off. Second, your heater was soaking in vinegar still so any leftover parasites likely died. No harm in observing first. But your call.

 

[lespaul339]

I still QT them after for a month of observation. They were almost done, but both fish did have white spots on the first day. I couldn't say whether or not it was ich, but they aren't showing any signs of ich now. I think just for peace of mind I will start over with TTM. It isn't worth introducing ich to my DT from cutting a corner here. I'm sure they are probably fine at this point, but I might as well eliminate any question of doubt now instead of when it's too late.

 

[CoralsAddiction]

It isn't worth introducing ich to my DT from cutting a corner here.

I understand but what I suggested wasn't to cut corners because if you put them in QT for observation and they have ich you will know it. Then you can start TTM again. But if you are on a roll with TTM and just want to do it right away, then sure it still works.

 

[vhuang168]

I understand but what I suggested wasn't to cut corners because if you put them in QT for observation and they have ich you will know it. Then you can start TTM again. But if you are on a roll with TTM and just want to do it right away, then sure it still works.

A fish can have ich but not show symptoms.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[lespaul339]

A fish can have ich but not show symptoms.

This. Which is why I will start over so there is no doubt.

 

[ThRoewer]

If the heater was in freshwater for more than 3 hours all cysts that may have been on it should be dead. This is even more so if you added vinegar to the water and the heater had soaked in there for much longer than 3 hours.
The drying is only another layer of sterilization, but the vinegar-freshwater soak should be quite sufficient.

 

[CoralsAddiction]

A fish can have ich but not show symptoms.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This. Which is why I will start over so there is no doubt.

OK, this is interesting. Could you explain how a fish suffering from Crypto may go on with its life carrying the parasite without any symptoms thereof for a prolonged period?
The only instance I can think of is a fish coming from a system with a low level of copper like a fish store or wholesaler where copper is not strong enough to eradicate it completely but is weak enough for the parasite to survive. But once a fish is placed in QT without copper meds or hypo, crypto will show itself.

I am all ears though.

 

[bc1281]

If ich is in the lungs there would be no visible symptoms, unless you looked in its lungs.

 

[CoralsAddiction]

If ich is in the lungs there would be no visible symptoms, unless you looked in its lungs.

That's fine but my understanding is that ich has a life cycle where it feeds on the fish then falls off to reproduce and to find a host to attach to, and so on. Eventually it will show. I'm yet to read a study or an article that says crypto has a lifecycle contained to one area of fish's organism without having to fall off of its host.

 

[jmm]

If ich is in the lungs there would be no visible symptoms, unless you looked in its lungs.

Fish don't have lungs.

 

[CoralsAddiction]

Fish don't have lungs.

Ha good point. Just did a Google search for fish anatomy and couldn't find fish lungs. Thankfully you resolved at least one myth for some of us here

 

[snorvich]

Under some circumstances a fish may develop temporary immunity and still be a carrier.

Fish that survive a Cryptocaryon infection can develop immunity to that particular strain of Cryptocaryon, which can prevent significant disease reoccurrence for up to 6 months (Burgess 1992; Burgess and Matthews 1995). However, these survivors may act as carriers and provide a reservoir for future outbreaks (Colorni and Burgess 1997).

 

[CoralsAddiction]

Under some circumstances a fish may develop temporary immunity and still be a carrier.

Fish that survive a Cryptocaryon infection can develop immunity to that particular strain of Cryptocaryon, which can prevent significant disease reoccurrence for up to 6 months (Burgess 1992; Burgess and Matthews 1995). However, these survivors may act as carriers and provide a reservoir for future outbreaks (Colorni and Burgess 1997).

Thanks for the citations. They are very informative. While I do realize that the study above might answer my earlier question about life cycle, I am still not sure how this particular theory helps the OP though. Let's say hypothetically the study applies to OP's fishes, the angel and the tang, in a sense that they developed immunity to that particular strain of Crypto. How would an extra round of TTM help him/her if both hosts are capable of carrying the disease for up to 6 months?

 

[CoralsAddiction]

And by the way, I find nothing wrong with OP's decision to do another TTM round. Given that the fishes almost completed one round, I would personally have taken a less pro-active approach but I totally respect the OP's decision.

 

[snorvich]

While I do realize that the study above might answer my earlier question about life cycle, I am still not sure how this particular theory helps the OP though. Let's say hypothetically the study applies to OP's fishes, the angel and the tang, in a sense that they developed immunity to that particular strain of Crypto. How would an extra round of TTM help him/her if both hosts are capable of carrying the disease for up to 6 months?

Crypto would still go through stages of its life cycle even though the fish was unaffected.

 

[CoralsAddiction]

Crypto would still go through stages of its life cycle even though the fish was unaffected.

It will go through life cycle for up to 6 months? Could you tie your answer to the part where the study says immunity can prevent significant disease reoccurrence for up to 6 months? I can't reconcile the two.