Um somebody who knows something about RR plumbing.

[Lint_Licker]

I am looking into having a RR tank built, and I have a couple of questions to ask somebody who knows about this... I'm looking at doing a standard 75g, single overflow. Im not really concerned about GPH from the overflow return to the tank because I have 2 SEIO's for flow. But I plan on having the overflow in the center of tank and have the return line spilt into going to the left and right at a downward angle. I know nothing about the engineering of this, so thats where I need help, along with some other questions....

1.What size holes do I need drilled in the bottom?

2.What do you use to black out the inside of the overflow(or outside of it)

3.What size plumbing will I need to do it how I want.

4.....I know Im leaving something out...

I plan on using a 30L or a 29g for a sump so I will have room for a ATO.


Thanks in advanced....

 

[Angela Short]

I have a nice ATO unit for sell Not real sure about the size holes for your set up but I would think a 1" drain and return maybe? The plumbing part is easy enouph, my return is split 2x on both overflows with a Y and locline to direct flow.

This stuff and I just used mucle to pop it together and didn't get the $20 pliers they sell!
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produ...&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&pc=1&N=0&Nty=1

This is the ATO I have. Brand new for $75 LMK if you need details or want more info on the unit. The linking brackets wouldn't work right for my freinds 29 tank mounting it in the display and we had a overflow on her hardwood trying to "rig up" a spacing bracket to get the water level high enouph and right in the tank . But we were using duck tape and a peice of wood from a toy so what did we expect :lol:. Unit works great though for a sump application. I can even throw in a pump since she got a tunze and it has one with it. This is the link to the ATO....

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/aquatic-supplies/JBJ-ATO.html

 

[DMBillies]

1. I don't know if you're looking at buying an RR (doesn't sound like it), so if you're converting a tank to RR, the first thing you'll want to do is check if the bottom is tempered glass. If it is, you have to go through the back of the tank because tempered glass will break if you try to drill it.

Follow this link (here) for just about all of the information you could possibly need on drilling tanks. You have to sift through it, but it will tell you what size holes you need to put in to fit different sized bulkheads.

For a 75, a 1" bulkhead (and plumbing) for the drain and a 3/4" bulkhead (and plumbing) for the return from the pump is pretty standard. If you won't be pushing a lot of flow through it, it would be sufficient I think. That said, if you ever decide to do something different, bigger plumbing won't hurt anything.

2. I don't know what material you're looking at for building the overflow so I'm not sure how to answer this question. I know some people use black acrylic (so you don't have to worry about it). Let us know a little bit more about what you're looking at doing and I'm sure somebody will pipe up.

3. See #1, decide on a bulkhead size, drill holes that will fit that size bulkhead, and then just match your plumbing to the bulkead sizes.

4. One thing you want to definitely make sure you build into your plumbing is a siphon break. In other words, drill a small hole in the plumbing somewhere near where the plumbing crosses the top of the overflow in a plalce that water won't spray all over the place, but that will allow the plumbing to suck in air when the return pump is shut off (read up on this, there are a few ways to do it). Without a siphon break, you'd siphon the water out of the tank down to the level that your returns are inside of the tank. That could be disasterous...

Good luck

 

[crumbletop]

Well here are my thoughts:

1) For a 75 gallon you really don't need a ton of flow from/to the tank via the return plumbing and drain. A 1" drain, and a 1" or 3/4" return would be fine. When you drill for these you need to decide what kind of bulkhead you want to use (schedule 40 or schedule 80). Sched 80 is heavier duty with a much thicker rubber gasket and so is less prone to leaking. They require larger holes ('cause their threads are thicker). Here is a link to Savko that has the bulkhead size along with the required hole size in parentheses:

http://www.savko.com/partlist.asp?pgid=2

My 90 gallon AGA RR has a 1" drain and a 3/4" return.

2) The split return should be easy to do. I recommend using locline at the top. Assuming a 3/4" return line, you could run plain-old 3/4" PVC to the top of the overflow, and from there run it into a locline "Y" and some locline runs to either side of the tank. The beauty of locline is you can bend it to point wherever you want.

3) I haven't ever messed with glass overflows, so I don't know about the blacking out question.

4) on plumbing size, it wouldn't hurt to go with larger drain (1 1/2") if you want, but I think 1" would be fine. 3/4" is most likely fine for the return plumbing.

 

[crumbletop]

RE what DM was saying about a siphon break, If you run a split return (like you mentioned) you can accomplish this by simply making sure one of the return lines empties out reasonably close to the surface. This is much more reliable than a drilled siphon break (which can clog). I have my return split, and have arranged the outlets so that when I cut the return pump, the sump fills all the way up (but no more). Makes for piece of mind if the power should ever fail, and makes water changes easy

 

[Angela Short]

I also have one of my returns just up to the top kinda and as the tank drains it stops at the highest return as my siphone break. I did move it around the other day and had it to low and almost flooded the sump but I was watching the fish eat and noticed the siphone wasn't breaking so I just moved it up a little and fixed the problem. I always kill the return pump when I feed.

 

[Lint_Licker]

I was going to have glass cages build the tank with the overflow installed.

So I guess I should order it with black acrylic overflow box.

Now how many gph do you think this will be, since I will need to buy a pump for it. I was thinking a mag7, but not sure.

 

[Fanof49ASU]

FYI.
The Aquatic Critter has a very nice cherry finished Oceanic 75g RR for sale. It was from the old production (better built), before they merged with AGA.

 

[crumbletop]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10005831#post10005831 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lint_Licker
I was going to have glass cages build the tank with the overflow installed.

So I guess I should order it with black acrylic overflow box.

Now how many gph do you think this will be, since I will need to buy a pump for it. I was thinking a mag7, but not sure.

Mag 7 would be fine, IMO, but is loud and hot compared to an OceanRunner 2500. I'm using an OR 2500 on my 90 and it works great. Not sure of the longevity -- but the price is right, is super quiet, and is only 38 watts. I used to use an eheim 1250 for the return, which would work as well but will only push about 150 gph at the display.

 

[NeveSSL]

Quiet Ones 3000 is very similar with 700GPH before head pressure and only 40 watts of power consumed. It also has 1" fittings, where the OR2500 has 3/4", FWIW.

Both are great pumps, though!

Also, FWIW, the AC carries Quite Ones... I just bought my 3000 there about 2 weeks ago.

Brandon

 

[DMBillies]

About the siphon break: I like to be redundantly redundant, so I have a siphon break AND I aim one of my returns up high so it will suck air. The reason I do this is because I'm using loc-line, and as Angela pointed out, if you aren't thinking and/or accidentally bump the return down, you can empty more water out of the tank than your sump can hold.

I had trouble with a Quiet One 4000 starting up after a switch off... I don't know if that is a common problem with them or not (I didn't research the pump before getting it because I got it as part of a full set-up), but it drove me nuts and worried me...so that's something to research before buying that brand. A QO 4000 would probably be too big for a 75 anyway (overwhelmed the plumbing on my 92), but I don't know if that is a common brand issue.

I run an Eheim 1262 on my 90 and a Mag 7 on my 92. The Mag is a bit louder, but I only ever notice that when the cabinet is open. Both have been rock solid for me performance-wise over the course of a year or so. I know the bigger Mags are supposed to really give off some heat, but I never really noticed excessive heat from my 7 (or the 5 I have on my frag tank). Depending on what lighting you use, heat may be more or less of an issue (although heat is usually a sign of inefficiency which will cost you on the electric bill).

FWIW, I would just keep your eyes open for a used pump in the gph range you want (really, any of those mentioned in the posts above would get the job done) and jump on it when you find one. This will save you a lot of money over buying new...

 

[Crazy 4169]

here are a few things to think about...total drainage, coeficient of friction, and head pressure.

Total maximum drainage:

3/4"-700 gph.
1"-1000gph.
1 1/4"-1200gph.
1 1/2"-1500gph.

*Dersa style overflows will allow up to 20% higher maximum flow over a standard standpipe.

Coeficient of friction:

every 22, 45, or 90 degree bend adds friction slowing maximum possible drainage
90 degree bends can also result in bubbles gurguling trying to escape drag

Head Pressure:

Every vertical foot=1ft head pressure
Every 3 horizontal feet=1ft. head pressure
Every 90degree bend =1.5 ft. head pressure.
This will effect the total pumping volume, it is easier to get an oversized pump & tone it back with a ball valve

For the lockline, siphon breaks cause alot of annoying salt creep, so instead install a good check valve. Not one of those spring loaded ones that home depot sales, but a good flapper style. I picked mine up at emerald bay.

 

[Lint_Licker]

That answers my other questions... Thanks for breaking it down for me!

 

[Crazy 4169]

Also, on glass cages' overflow, they are glass overflows one inch below the bottom of the eurobrace, with an acrylic cover. You can get this cover black, blue , marble grey, or marble green. If you want hight flow, you will probably need to widen the slits for the overflow strainers.

 

[gflat65]

I usually upsize the elbows where head loss is detrimental. Just go one size up so you don't grossly oversize. Some fittings have less constriction, too. I ordered oversized unions for the skimmers and found that Savko fittings had much less constriction than those I've gotten at Lowes/HD before. Can't forget unions and ballvalves (or union ballvalves).

 

[Lint_Licker]

Thanks!