Unhappy blue tang

[allendehl]

Hello guys,

I have a case of an unhappy fish I'd like to get some input on. I am new to the hobby but I have established (and follow) a strict QT protocol for all fish coming into my DT. I do TTM followed by 2 weeks of observation in QT.
I had a small yellow tang wrapping up its QT and decided to get a Blue Tang. As I know tangs should go all at the same time, I violated my protocol and put it in my DT with the Yellow Tang as it came from the LFS. I crossed all my fingers and toes and hoped I didn't have to pay a hefty price for one exception.

This was all back on 11/16 (12 days ago). Fish looks fine as you can see in pics below, I dont see any visible signs of decease. Thing is that it is always hidden in a cave in the rocks and when it comes out for a swim is to only go into another hole. It does not come out at feeding time and I haven't seen him eating anything. I figure it is doing it when I don't watch because its been like this for 2 weeks now. I've looked for extended period of times and I don't believe its been bullied either when he does come out.

Before the Tang Police jumps at me, please, I know I am stretching it with a 75G tank but I don't believe this is the problem since I haven't seen him swimming stressed so please unless you truly believe the space is the issue, don't make it the focus of your answer.

Thank you all in advance!

 

[Ryan Darilek]

Oh man.... Here come the tang police. Lol.

Honestly, I think some fish are more delicate when it comes to the acclimation process and feeling comfortable in their new home. Hipo Tangs are known to be one of them for sure. I had a Melinarous Wrasse that took almost two months to get comfortable in my tank before I even saw him out with the lights on... I would just give him more time and he should adjust just fine. Maybe try different foods along with nori on a clip for him too once he's acclimated and comfortable, just keep an eye out for signals of stress, but my bet is seeing as how he has 4' of swimming space, he should be alright

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[Ryan Darilek]

Just noticed the kole tang too... 3 Tangs in a 75 will likely lead to aggression/stress. Not trying to go all tang police on ya, but just be weary

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[Rover88]

My LFS said that a koles eye tang or a yellow tang is about the limit for a 75 gallon.


A hippo he said at least a 125.

I don't know what to tell you. Not trying to Tang Police you, but you overstocked the tank, you know you did, and that may well be why the fish are unhappy?


To try and help: did you see him eating at the fish store?

You haven't had him two weeks yet. He may just be adjusting still. Its not uncommon for fish to take a while to settle in. The eating part is worrisome, but I don't know how long is too long. I've read of people talking about their fish disappearing for a month before popping out starving at feeding time.

 

[allendehl]

Just noticed the kole tang too... 3 Tangs in a 75 will likely lead to aggression/stress. Not trying to go all tang police on ya, but just be weary

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lol photobomb, I didn't notice it. I am aware I am pushing it a bit but so far no signs of violence.

 

[Rover88]

lol photobomb, I didn't notice it. I am aware I am pushing it a bit but so far no signs of violence.

Its not just violence though. That is a pretty big bioload and a lot of fish to have in a tank of that size. Especially if they are on the larger end of the size they CAN get to.


What are your water parameters, have you been testing ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate?

 

[allendehl]

Its not just violence though. That is a pretty big bioload and a lot of fish to have in a tank of that size. Especially if they are on the larger end of the size they CAN get to.


What are your water parameters, have you been testing ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate?

Tank is established so ammonia and nitrites are down to 0. Nitrates are at 20 ppm (I blame my filter socks that I haven't changed) and phosphates are aprox 0.05.
Bio load doesn't seem to be the reason.

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[Uncle99]

Tangs are long range swimmers and do best in only large tanks.
While they can adjust to a smaller venue, they would not thrive.
This is not to say you can not, many SW people will tell you you can, but the balance is quite specific. Your yellow tang has placed himself in number 1 pecking position and the blue is aware of this and is frightened. The Koke doesn't care about either.
If possible, you could try to rearrange some structure in your tank to create new undefined area to be claimed. The hopes are that the yellow keeps his but allows the blue his, again...much easier the bigger the tank. You need to manage the behavioral issues now not allowing anyone to be bullied to death.

 

[Shamous113]

Ive seen people use a mirror up against the tank for a couple of days to distract yellow tangs while every one is settling in, I do agree though the fish load will get to be too much as these fish grow for your tank, and imho the hippo needs at least a 150 for swimming space.

 

[Puffasaurus]

If you plan on keeping more than one tang in a tank and keep the peace, you pretty much need to go big or go home. Redefining territories is a short term fix at best.

 

[ROlympia]

I don't know about anybody else's tangs but my tang is pretty territorial and I'm not even in there with him.

 

[allendehl]

As I mentioned in the original question. I haven't seen any sign of bullying among the tangs. Yellow and Kole get along just fine, anywhere Kole goes Yellow follows. Blue comes out to cruise from time to time and is not bothered at all by the other two.
It may or may not become an issue later but it isn't now.



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[ktownhero]

It may or may not become an issue later but it isn't now.



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Doesn't that contradict the entire purpose of this thread? lol

I keep a Yellow and Kole in my 120 and they are best buds. I don't feel that blue tangs are appropriate for 4' tanks though; they just get quite large and are very sensitive.

 

[allendehl]

Doesn't that contradict the entire purpose of this thread? lol

I keep a Yellow and Kole in my 120 and they are best buds. I don't feel that blue tangs are appropriate for 4' tanks though; they just get quite large and are very sensitive.

I don't think so. That is a fact. Arswers keep referring to tank size and aggressiveness and I've said many times there is none so far . Unless some honestly believe tank size and other tangs would be the reason of such behavior (like someone before mentioned the tang being frightened even w/o being bullied) then these are the typical canned tang answers diverting the point of the thread.

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[Rover88]

...Thing is that it is always hidden in a cave in the rocks and when it comes out for a swim is to only go into another hole. It does not come out at feeding time and I haven't seen him eating anything. I figure it is doing it when I don't watch because its been like this for 2 weeks now.

....Before the Tang Police jumps at me, please, I know I am stretching it with a 75G tank but I don't believe this is the problem since I haven't seen him swimming stressed....

...Blue comes out to cruise from time to time and is not bothered at all by the other two.
It may or may not become an issue later but it isn't now....

...Unless some honestly believe tank size and other tangs would be the reason of such behavior (like someone before mentioned the tang being frightened even w/o being bullied) then these are the typical canned tang answers diverting the point of the thread....

You've got some conflicting statements in the thread.
You haven't seen him swimming stressed: Arguably going from hole to hole could be a sign of that. Tangs are mostly free swimmers?

He only ever leaves a cave to go to another cave, but occasionally also comes out to cruise unbothered by the others? If thats the case, he sounds fine.

Can you clarify what exactly the tang is doing that is making you worried? If you don't want to think its because of three tangs in a 75 gallon, then I'm not sure what answer you are wanting to hear. My best bet, ignoring the tang canned answers comment (there is a reason you are hearing them), is that its just in its normal adjustment period. Its been in the tank only two weeks by now, and some fish just take a while to settle in and get used to the tank. If its not being bullied and not being stressed by the other fish like you say, leave him alone and he should eat when he is comfortable.

I don't think you answered it before, but did you ever see him eat at the place you bought him from? Or was he shipped in?

 

[allendehl]

You've got some conflicting statements in the thread.
You haven't seen him swimming stressed: Arguably going from hole to hole could be a sign of that. Tangs are mostly free swimmers?

He only ever leaves a cave to go to another cave, but occasionally also comes out to cruise unbothered by the others? If thats the case, he sounds fine.

Can you clarify what exactly the tang is doing that is making you worried? If you don't want to think its because of three tangs in a 75 gallon, then I'm not sure what answer you are wanting to hear. My best bet, ignoring the tang canned answers comment (there is a reason you are hearing them), is that its just in its normal adjustment period. Its been in the tank only two weeks by now, and some fish just take a while to settle in and get used to the tank. If its not being bullied and not being stressed by the other fish like you say, leave him alone and he should eat when he is comfortable.

I don't think you answered it before, but did you ever see him eat at the place you bought him from? Or was he shipped in?

This is the type of answer I believe brings value and I do appreciate a lot, thank you!

To answer your questions, my statements may seem conflicting but are facts. He does stay 90% of the time stuck in a cave, and also does come out from time to time, does a couple of rounds around the rocks and goes back into the same or another cave.
I don't look for a specific answer I want to hear, I look for answers that address the issue on hand, not just point out facts (that, though true facts) are irrelevant to the problem, unless they are relevant.
If the smaller tank or number of tangs could very well be the reason the tang is acting like that, then I am fine with those arguments but, from what I've read about stressed fish (again, I'm new to this) it is not very obvious it is the case, as I haven't seen anyone bothering the blue or any erratic swimming patterns.
I am not picking on anyone or trying to make myself hard to help (you can read my previous post and will find out I am very appreciative of help) it is just that it is too easy for everyone to come to conclusions w/o giving it a minute to think if the "one size fits all" facts about tangs are the actual issue.

I think for us newbies it is important to experience some of these "proven facts" by ourselves instead of just live in the comfort zone, go by general knowledge and then repeat it and repeat it, as it usually happens with tang issues.
As long as fish are not tortured (and though I like blue tangs I would never do) I believe it is ok to purposely push the common knowledge a bit to really enjoy and experience the hobby. Mistakes will be made, definitely, but how boring would be the hobby otherwise.

Now, back to your post. I did not see the fish eat in the store, this is a good point I missed. I've had it for 13 days now so I assume he must be eating something or would have died already...right?
Also, the acclimation period theory seems reasonable as well as Uncle99's about he being frightened for not real reason. Hopefully if true, he will outgrow both and feel more comfortable in a few days. Any other theory and action plan is, of course, appreciated.

 

[Rover88]

This is the type of answer I believe brings value and I do appreciate a lot, thank you!

To answer your questions, my statements may seem conflicting but are facts. He does stay 90% of the time stuck in a cave, and also does come out from time to time, does a couple of rounds around the rocks and goes back into the same or another cave.
I don't look for a specific answer I want to hear, I look for answers that address the issue on hand, not just point out facts (that, though true facts) are irrelevant to the problem, unless they are relevant.
If the smaller tank or number of tangs could very well be the reason the tang is acting like that, then I am fine with those arguments but, from what I've read about stressed fish (again, I'm new to this) it is not very obvious it is the case, as I haven't seen anyone bothering the blue or any erratic swimming patterns.
I am not picking on anyone or trying to make myself hard to help (you can read my previous post and will find out I am very appreciative of help) it is just that it is too easy for everyone to come to conclusions w/o giving it a minute to think if the "one size fits all" facts about tangs are the actual issue.

I think for us newbies it is important to experience some of these "proven facts" by ourselves instead of just live in the comfort zone, go by general knowledge and then repeat it and repeat it, as it usually happens with tang issues.
As long as fish are not tortured (and though I like blue tangs I would never do) I believe it is ok to purposely push the common knowledge a bit to really enjoy and experience the hobby. Mistakes will be made, definitely, but how boring would be the hobby otherwise.

Now, back to your post. I did not see the fish eat in the store, this is a good point I missed. I've had it for 13 days now so I assume he must be eating something or would have died already...right?
Also, the acclimation period theory seems reasonable as well as Uncle99's about he being frightened for not real reason. Hopefully if true, he will outgrow both and feel more comfortable in a few days. Any other theory and action plan is, of course, appreciated.

I own a 75 gallon tank myself, and I wanted to get a Hippo Tang. But after talks with the local fish store and reading online, I decided against. Down the road, my intention is to get a single Koles Eye tang or a single yellow Tang. EVEN THAT many would say is too much for a 75gallon, but its what I feel personally would be best.

Hopefully, it works out for you. Its obvious you mean well for the fish!

I had a fish not eat for two weeks, then he came out from where he was hiding, ate ravenously during feeding time, and ran back into the hole right afterwards. He has been in the tank just over 3 weeks now, and still barely ever shows himself unless its feeding time.

The other tank inhabitants merrily swim around.

Sometimes, fish just take longer to acclimate. My concern is that you never saw it feed at the store. Fish can live a WHILE without eating, and the larger the fish the larger it can go from what I've heard.

But the convention wisdom I've read is to that if a fish isn't eating, it'll die. (obviously) Do you know how long he was at the place he was before you bought him? Did they tell you he had been eating, or was he 'new' to them? Knowing how he behaved before you got him compared to how he behaves now may help you figure out if its just an adjustment period, or something else.

 

[heathlindner25]

I will just say that blue tangs are not "hiders" and is feeling very uncomfortable in his current situation .
I'd also say ,It takes a good while for a fish to become emaciated and die from starvation ....torture.

 

[Rover88]

I will just say that blue tangs are not "hiders" and is feeling very uncomfortable in his current situation .
I'd also say ,It takes a good while for a fish to become emaciated and die from starvation ....torture.

This is a good point. I don't own any 'free swimming' fish. They WILL swim around, but all my fish (Blennies, Gobys, and clowns) aren't known for that, they do love their rockwork.

The hider I mentioned is an engineer goby (convict blenny?) that has completely built a cave for himself by building a sandwall inside an alcove and hides there.

 

[allendehl]

I will just say that blue tangs are not "hiders" and is feeling very uncomfortable in his current situation .
I'd also say ,It takes a good while for a fish to become emaciated and die from starvation ....torture.

Now we are getting to the much needed help! Do you believe the issue is related to the other tangs around and/or this particular fish personality?

Would swapping the tang for another with the LFS (provided they agree) would be an option?...and of course take some measures about late insertion?