Upgrading tank and becoming Ich free

[desjardinii]

Hi all, I'm looking for some advice and a bit of a plan of attack.
I'm going to upgrade my old 150g tank to something around 200g and see this as a good opportunity to get rid of the Ich I've had lurking around for years. I've got 10 fish ranging from 3.5-9" and Ideally would like to move them all just once and treat them in the new big tank, keeping it all as stress free as possible. I'm not sure whether to go copper or hypo, the new tank could be initially set up like a big qt/hospital system but I really have no experience with this. I also have a 40g tank but could only qt one or two at a time and I imagine it would be a lot harder to keep stable. For initial filtration I could set up a trickle filter but would like to eventually move my LR over after the fallow period and add more. I've also thought of leaving the fish and moving all the LR, sand and inverts over to the new tank and using the old one as the qt but there's a lot of micro life and coralline etc. which would die off and cause ammonia?

Here's a couple of pics of my fish so you can see what I'm up against!

The current tank has been running since 2000 and I have a few fish that are several years old, the Sailfin's actually over 20! They all seem fairly Immune to the parasite and I haven't had a fish die from any ailment for nearly 10 years so it would be devastating if I lost any from making an error/poisoning etc.
Any suggestions will be much appreciated:beer:

 

[julie180]

My thought is tank transfer for the fish, but you are still going to have to fallow everything else for 72 days. Would it be possible to get the new tank set up totally new and cycled, do tank transfer for the fish then into the new tank. Then you can let the old tank go fallow for necessary time and move corals and inverts after that.

 

[Perth_reefer]

TTM would probably be best in this case, however I think you're probably looking at doing one/two fish at a time in 2 separate tanks, once all the fish are transferred then yeah...minimum 72 days, personally I'd wait longer because I've had ich reappear after 73 days before, how much longer...who knows?!
Beautiful fish btw, it's a good example how a tank can 'live' with ich, although not ideal you have a couple of very sensitive fish in there and they look great which is a positive reflection on your abilities as a reef keeper. I'm assuming they're well fed and there is minimum aggression in the tank which means healthy fish who can keep ich at bay.

 

[Sounds Fishy]

I want to compliment you on your photos of your present aquarium,very nice.I have just moved to a larger aquarium 220 from a 125 gal. and eradicated a problem with ich.I had four fish die from ich.No big outbreak,but there was a cycle and over time one fish or another would exhibit symptoms maybe once or twice a year.I had lost one NigerTrigger and one Racoon Butterfly fish,over approx. four years ,till then.My present fish in the new 220 are from that aquarium,in four years probably all had shown symptoms,except for my Yellow Tangs and I am certain now immune to what was lurking .I never actually treated the inhabitants and just let it run it's course,when it happened,because it was fairly low grade, IMO....I've transferred everything over into the new 220 gallon , back in April,and it appears to be clear of any disease since then.The process started in Jan. ,putting all my fish in a QT.I lost 2 to ich,during QT.I treated every fish with hypo sanity method. It was as described in the above posts,transferring all my live rock to tubs for 72 days,actually longer because it took a while to get the new aquarium set up.

It takes up a lot of space as well,using Rubbermaid containers for the live rock,and Qt fish.In my case it was the kitchen.From Jan. to April I had 4 , 20gallon QT aquariums with my fish and coral ,and 3 Rubbermaid containers with 350 pounds of live rock.It was a bit cramped ,but worth it.I have not purchased anything new as far as stock for this new tank,yet.I am giving it lots of time to show if all the ich has been eradicated,from the survivors

 

[BigJohnny]

Just FYI fish can appear to be fine and live with ich but are likely suffering. You will notice a significant positive change in their behavior after treatment. Having said that, although I understand to some extent, its pretty messed up that it took an upgrade for you to take care of your fishes health IMO. Feel the guilt [emoji48] . I also recommend TTM as the best ich eradication method.

 

[Sounds Fishy]

I was in denial that my aquarium had ich.To be honest,it wasn't until I started reading the informative threads on this website did I discover that my fish had ich.Despite my own prior experiences with salt water diseases previously, I wasn't sure what was behind the demise of these fish.Generally,the system was functioning and overall the fish looked well. That aquarium ran for 5 years and having one to 2 fish die in several years was minimal morbidity .My tomato clownfish had it,survived it and I assume ,for now,very well.Once I clued in that this was ich,I put my attention to a new aquarium build.

 

[Perth_reefer]

Just FYI fish can appear to be fine and live with ich but are likely suffering. You will notice a significant positive change in their behavior after treatment. Having said that, although I understand to some extent, its pretty messed up that it took an upgrade for you to take care of your fishes health IMO. Feel the guilt [emoji48] . I also recommend TTM as the best ich eradication method.

It's not always that easy though is it...if you have a fully stocked acropora reef and ich is introduced into your tank then you have a major decision to make. Do you rip apart your reef stressing your corals and fish trying to catch them all, or do you manage your system by providing a healthy, stress free environment? I guarantee you there are a lot of people out there who have ich in their tank but don't even realise.

 

[desjardinii]

Thanks everyone for your input, and thanks kenpau as I have tried to provide the best environment I can for my fish with low stress, lots of good food and good water. My last deaths were a trio of Sgt Majors that I reckon succumbed to old age as they were all around 8-9 years old, this was 10 years ago. I have certainly made a few errors but have not lost a fish to Ich for a very long time and now I'm in a position to do something about it .:bounce3:
TTM seems to be the preferred method and I'll definitely use it for any future new additions but it's going to be an awfully long and stressful process with all my fish. I have worked out if I do two lots of the smallest four fish, then the larger ones separately it will mean 7 treatments or 84 days with no breaks in between! I don't think I could cope trying to perform more than one transfer at a time. I will also have to pull the DT down multiple times to catch the next fish. My LR is covered in Xenia and morphs so I cant just dump it back in any which way either.
Setting the new DT up initially as a HT and treating with Cupramine will take only take 28 days and be a lot easier for me to manage, especially with limited space and young children about. It will shorten the fallow period and also help with any politics, especially with the Tangs if I could move them all in at once.
I can then remove the copper via water changes and cuprisorb etc and slowly start converting it to a DT.

This is the stocklist and their approx. size:

Kleins Butterfly 3.5"
Melanopus Clown 4"
Bannerfish 4.5"
Tomini Tang 4.5"
Powder Blue 5"
Harlequin Tusk 6"
Asfur Angel 6"
Coris Wrasse 7"
Olive Tang 8"
Sailfin 9"

 

[Deinonych]

While I am a huge advocate of TTM, I think in your case it isn't the best course of action. Cupramine can be pretty harsh on some fish, especially angels (I see you have at least one, and a beautiful one at that), and it requires daily testing to ensure therapeutic levels are maintained. It also only treats the back end of the parasite's life cycle, which can be highly variable.

That said, IMO hyposalinity is likely the best option for you, as it is easy on the fish, does not require harsh chemicals, and does not require frequent handling. With a large tank volume as yours, maintaining hyposaline conditions should be relatively straightforward assuming you have an auto-topoff system. Just keep the SG at 1.009 for 30 days and you should be good.

 

[desjardinii]

Thanks Chris
I always thought hypo could be just as harsh, and for some reason, a longer treatment period? The Asfur in the copper has been a real worry for me though and I don't think it would cope very well emotionally with TTM so I'm glad you've suggested hypo. I have an ato and refrac. etc. Should I still go bare bottom, pvc pipe HT style or can I put a thin layer of coral sand (not live) and dead but seeded rock in for filtration? -I used to have old LR in my brackish water tank and it worked well as the main biofilter.

 

[Deinonych]

Hypo actually makes it easier for the fish to osmoregulate, and you get increased oxygen saturation as salinity decreases. So, almost definitely less harsh on the fish. The only thing you need to pay attention to is pH, which can get dangerously low in hyposaline conditions. Baking soda is a good way to keep pH in check during hypo (dissolve in RO/DI before adding to the aquarium).

As far as substrate is concerned, I don't think it really matters. Adding dry sand will allow more surface area for your biofilter to populate. Seeding with Bio-spira is a good option, and I would get an Ammonia Alert badge to make sure you don't have ammonia issues.

 

[Perth_reefer]

Thanks Chris
I always thought hypo could be just as harsh, and for some reason, a longer treatment period? The Asfur in the copper has been a real worry for me though and I don't think it would cope very well emotionally with TTM so I'm glad you've suggested hypo. I have an ato and refrac. etc. Should I still go bare bottom, pvc pipe HT style or can I put a thin layer of coral sand (not live) and dead but seeded rock in for filtration? -I used to have old LR in my brackish water tank and it worked well as the main biofilter.

Or if you're not comfortable doing hypo, you could possibly do TTM on the angel and copper treatment with the rest....