Upgrading the 40w UV to 80w.

[EnderG60]

So a LOOOOOONG time ago I was gifted a emperor 40w UV after it got wet and the ballast fried and the bulb exploded and cracked the sleeve. So I decided to DIY it back together and put it on my QT tank. I found a 40w t5 ballast for $25, new off brand bulb for $35 and new sleeve for $40. $100 for a 40w UV not bad at all. Just looked a bit DIY.

That lasted about 2 years of on off operation before the bulb blew and the ballast stopped working. With my upcoming move I will be needing a UV for the temporary setup and decided to get this thing working again but with actual emperor parts.

Hop on amazon and its easy to find the parts. 40w Power supply $100, emperor bulb $62, sleeve $40. So $200 and I have a brand new Emperor UV. Sweet!

Then I noticed something. Hey the 80w High output bulb is the same size as the 40w. Hell same sleeve size too. Oh no, plotting begins. A new search turns up....a 80w power supply $130, emperor 80w bulb $83, sleeve $40....So $250 for the 80w parts. A $50 upgrade to go from a 40w UV to a 80w UV. (FYI the off brand bulbs are $34 for the 40w and $42 for the 80w if youre wondering)


ORDER.


So the bulbs are in fact not the same size....hmm

But the 80w bulb fits in the sleeve just fine...ok (note the cracked sleeve, new one is coming)

Ok on to the power supply, this is a bit more hefty than the other one.

Plugs are the same ,but the adapters are different sizes. The 80w is 1" the 40w is 3/4". No problem Ill just swap them. And the plug doesnt fit through the hole. Figures, and I was hoping to get through this without any wiring.

Wires clipped, adapter found and it fits!

Reattaching wires.

Everything fits and we have an 80w UV!

Now its worth noting that while I was waiting for the stuff to arrive I did some research. Reading the Emperor manual to get the flow rates, they list flow rates for up to 180,000 units but to kill ich you need to 330,000, so take their min flow rate and cut it in half. Turns out the rated flow rate for killing ich with the 40w is only 50 GPM, thats crap and why I recommend a 40w as a minimum size for any aquarium. The flow rate to kill ich with the 80w is 200 GPM. Now thats cooking! So right there we have a 4x increase in usable flow for $50.


I didnt do any comparisons for other UV sizes to see if a HO version is available but this certainly opens some doors for retrofits.


So someone as nerdy as I am will probably point out that the reaction chamber on the 40w is 2" but the 80w its 3.5". FYI the newer 40w ones are 3". Looks like I will have to do some adjustments to the flow rates based on the chamber volumes. Which I will certainly do as soon as Im sober enough to do math lol.

 

[cali9dub]

Interesting. I have a 40w currently. Why couldn’t I just put an 80w bulb in it and increase flow? It has that exact same ballast. Are the ballast set differently from Pentair based on what model they are installing it in? Also, that 80w bulb looks super green, my 40w is definitely blue. Is it a different color ?

 

[slief]

Interesting. I have a 40w currently. Why couldn’t I just put an 80w bulb in it and increase flow? It has that exact same ballast. Are the ballast set differently from Pentair based on what model they are installing it in? Also, that 80w bulb looks super green, my 40w is definitely blue. Is it a different color ?

It might be because of the bulbs he used. I think Pentair uses Aqua Ultraviolet bulbs and those look like cheap clones which aren’t the same as the originals. Their spectrum can vary wildly from one bulb to the next and I don’t think they are nearly as effective. They also don’t last like the original bulbs or at least the AquaUV ones and tend to run very hot which can damage the connectors from the ballasts. After about 6 months the cheap bulbs drop off pretty badly where as the AquaUV’s go strong for a year or more.

 

[cali9dub]

I definitely wouldn’t be using those Chinese knockoffs ! I agree with you that the pentair bulbs are pretty steady for longer ! I’m still intrigued about the thought of tossing an 80w bulb in mine.

 

[slief]

I definitely wouldn't be using those Chinese knockoffs ! I agree with you that the pentair bulbs are pretty steady for longer ! I'm still intrigued about the thought of tossing an 80w bulb in mine.

You would need to upgrade your ballast to the 80w one. That said, there really ins't much point in doing so if your UV is properly sized to your display. It's all about the flow rates and like the AquaUV sterilzers, they are designed for higher flow rates. Also, the rates specified on the pentair website are typically for fresh water. If you want accurate flow rates for salt water use, take a look at the comparable units on the AquaUV site for marine flow rates.

 

[cali9dub]

Well my emperor aquatics (pentair) ballast says it’s good for a 18,25,40 or 65w bulb, but I think the 65 is way longer than the 40 on the Smart UV non HO model. I didn’t notice this was referencing the HO model bulb and ballast.

 

[slief]

Well my emperor aquatics (pentair) ballast says it’s good for a 18,25,40 or 65w bulb, but I think the 65 is way longer than the 40 on the Smart UV non HO model. I didn’t notice this was referencing the HO model bulb and ballast.

Yes and the 80 UV also has a 6” diameter body so putting the 80w bulb in the 4” diameter body is a whole other issue as it could cause issues with the body cracking due to excessive UV exposure. It’s an issue that was common with older TMC sterilzers and when I say older, I am talking to the tune of 15 or 20 years ago. If you look at the AquaUV 80w units, they use a pair of 40w bulbs in two 4” bodies and EA uses an 80w bulb in a 6” body. I like the DIY stuff and commend the OP for resurrecting a dead UV but companies like AquaUV and EA designed their bodies around their bulbs. I would have serious concerns about putting an 80w bulb in a body that was designed for a 40 bulb. Especially if you look at the design changes made to accommodate the higher output bulb on the EA and the design of the 80w AquaUV who is arguably one of the most trusted names in UV. There IS a reason why EA used a larger diameter body and why AquaUV chose to use two 40w bulbs in their 80w sterilzer instead of packing an 80 bulb into a 40w body.

 

[cali9dub]

Well like I said it was all related to the HO version, so I don’t care too much as I’m not doing any of that anyway.

 

[EnderG60]

You would need to upgrade your ballast to the 80w one. That said, there really ins’t much point in doing so if your UV is properly sized to your display. It’s all about the flow rates and like the AquaUV sterilzers, they are designed for higher flow rates. Also, the rates specified on the pentair website are typically for fresh water. If you want accurate flow rates for salt water use, take a look at the comparable units on the AquaUV site for marine flow rates.

There is a wonderful thread here on sizing UV's Id recommend you read that, it shows what radiation rates are required to kill what and how to extrapolate the flow rates needed from the tables the UV makers supply All of them are WAY to low to kill ich and need adjustments.

FYI your sizes are WAY off. only the 120w and 150w have 5" diameter chambers. The dual 40w aquauv is in two 2" chambers not 4". For a sponsor you sure are posting a ton of very wrong info...... The 5" and 3.5" ABS fittings are I am convinced only used because they are obscure and rarely used sizes to make the harder to repair(instead of 4" and 6"), as I had to repair a broken 150w chamber to rebuild it. Also the cracking you are referring to was for the white PVC units not ABS.

Your ballast is good for its max rating which is apparently 65w, so I dont think its a HO ballast. But next time you need to upgrade the bulb and sleeve it might be worth a ballast as well if you want to upgrade. Its still cheaper than spending $650 on a new 80w unit.

I think the color is more based off the phone camera and the room lighting. My 150 running a emperor bulb is the same color through the UV fittings. If you removed the bulb its still blueish (BUT DONT LOOK AT THE BARE BULB)



Im now starting to think about how to calculate the flow rate for the 2" camber. Im not entirely convinced the new larger chamber sizes are due to the penetration power of the HO bulb since they are using them with the standard output bulbs as well. The current 40w unit is 3" and the 80w is 3.5", So if anything the smaller chamber means more of the water is in a higher radiation zone(closer to the bulb). But on the other hand the larger chamber means the water has a longer dwell time in the unit. Hmm:headwally:

 

[cali9dub]

Yeah I didn’t think diameter had much to do with any of it as much as dwell time. There are several models that have increased wattage with only increased length of the unit, not the diameter.

 

[slief]

There is a wonderful thread here on sizing UV's Id recommend you read that, it shows what radiation rates are required to kill what and how to extrapolate the flow rates needed from the tables the UV makers supply All of them are WAY to low to kill ich and need adjustments.

FYI your sizes are WAY off. only the 120w and 150w have 5" diameter chambers. The dual 40w aquauv is in two 2" chambers not 4". For a sponsor you sure are posting a ton of very wrong info...... The 5" and 3.5" ABS fittings are I am convinced only used because they are obscure and rarely used sizes to make the harder to repair(instead of 4" and 6"), as I had to repair a broken 150w chamber to rebuild it. Also the cracking you are referring to was for the white PVC units not ABS.

Your ballast is good for its max rating which is apparently 65w, so I dont think its a HO ballast. But next time you need to upgrade the bulb and sleeve it might be worth a ballast as well if you want to upgrade. Its still cheaper than spending $650 on a new 80w unit.

I think the color is more based off the phone camera and the room lighting. My 150 running a emperor bulb is the same color through the UV fittings. If you removed the bulb its still blueish (BUT DONT LOOK AT THE BARE BULB)



Im now starting to think about how to calculate the flow rate for the 2" camber. Im not entirely convinced the new larger chamber sizes are due to the penetration power of the HO bulb since they are using them with the standard output bulbs as well. The current 40w unit is 3" and the 80w is 3.5", So if anything the smaller chamber means more of the water is in a higher radiation zone(closer to the bulb). But on the other hand the larger chamber means the water has a longer dwell time in the unit. Hmm:headwally:

I have seen and read that thread so I am familiar with it. I've been running UV's for over 25 years on all my systems and have installed a number of them on customer systems as well. I am a firm believer in the benefits of UV sterilzers. Even in reef tanks. One thing I have learned is that a UV can only reduce the populations of ich in certain stages and it will never eliminate the parasite let alone prevent outbreaks no matter how little flow you run through them since you will never have 100% of the parasites going through the UV. Granted, anything that helps is a good thing. And you are correct. I misspoke on the diameter of the AquaUV. Something I should not have done since I run a 114w unit myself and have installed countless other AquaUV units. Emperor Aquatics/Pentair however does list this 80w HO at 6" diameter. Maybe that is the overall measurement but it's much larger in diameter than their 40w. And yes, the cracking that I am referring to on the much older TMC units was their white PVC units. We had two client tanks that had catostrophic losses due to that issue. That was some 15 or so years ago and TMC has long since redesigned their units. Part of the redesign included a larger diameter body in addition to different materials. Or at least I think their materials are different. These were their dual bulb 110w units.



I think that the smaller chamber will result in greater UV exposure with an 80w bulb in a 40w chamber so you would want a higher flow rate through it unless you want to kill everything that passes through the UV which is a reef can be slightly counter productive granted pods usually stay in the rocks and substrate until the lights go out. Thus, the impact a UV sterilzer has on pod populations is typically neglidgable. While I do commend you on this upgrade as it is very cost effective, I do still believe in running these things within their design specs. For me personally, I would still be concerned running the 80w bulb in the 40w housing as there is no way to be certain what the long term effects of having that bulb in that housing will be in terms of it's impact on the housing. It could be nothing but then again, there is likely a reason beyond increasing flow rates in UV exposure reduction that the manufactures chose a different body for the 80w unit. It could be as simple as heat transfer which increased flow would help with in terms of keeping the bulb, sleeve and housing cool but who knows. What I would keep an eye on is the ceramic connections at the bulb. Hopefully those don't need replacing too often as that would be a sign of increased heat at the bulb ends. And if the bulb in running hotter in that unit, it will shorten the bulb life.

 

[cali9dub]

The high Output models have a smaller footprint, hence the larger diameter body. The higher wattage on the regular Smart UV have a longer length and not diameter. Circumference might have more to do with convenience of footprint size and volume of water exposed to UV as opposed to the danger of damaging the body of the unit itself ??

 

[EnderG60]

Ah but I do want to kill everything that passes through it! As you said, a few pods will die but there are plenty more.

I actually ran a AquaUV 57 and 144w, everyone hated them due to ballast problems but I never had an issue.

Ill keep the flow rates at the recommended levels for the 80w bulb. Volumetric flow rate is the same for any size chamber, but as you said the water will just get extra radiation being closer to the bulb.

Good tip on keeping an eye on the ceramic ends, that seems to be where the 40w bulbs would fail. At this point I just have to get the new QT system up and running and see how this thing works.

 

[EnderG60]

So I just got my new quartz sleeve in aaaand it doesnt fit. Then I realized my UV housing is a gamma housing not an emperor, small oversight lol.

Apparently the Emperor sleeve is 3" longer but the same diameter. I could cut the sleeve down but Id rather get the right one. So I have a new sleeve coming and Im now trying to find a sleeve gasket that fits since the gamma stuff is discontinued.

 

[slief]

So I just got my new quartz sleeve in aaaand it doesnt fit. Then I realized my UV housing is a gamma housing not an emperor, small oversight lol.

Apparently the Emperor sleeve is 3" longer but the same diameter. I could cut the sleeve down but Id rather get the right one. So I have a new sleeve coming and Im now trying to find a sleeve gasket that fits since the gamma stuff is discontinued.

I wonder if the AquaUV seals would work? Do you have any of the original seals around? I could measure one of mine if you have a picture of one and have the inside and outside diameter. I am pretty sure I have spares here so it would be easy for me to check.

 

[slief]

So I just got my new quartz sleeve in aaaand it doesnt fit. Then I realized my UV housing is a gamma housing not an emperor, small oversight lol.

Apparently the Emperor sleeve is 3" longer but the same diameter. I could cut the sleeve down but Id rather get the right one. So I have a new sleeve coming and Im now trying to find a sleeve gasket that fits since the gamma stuff is discontinued.

This place lists the seal for the Gamma UV. It’s listed as 1”. The AquaUV sterilzer has a 1” diameter sleeve if I am not mistaken and the seals while a bit different appear to look very similar.
Here is the seal for the Gamma. Whether they have it in stock is a different question.
http://www.suburbanreef.com/o-ring-1-for-gamma-uv-liquid-tite.html

Here is the seal for the AquaUV.
https://www.amazon.com/Aqua-Ultraviolet-AAV40004-Rubber-Aquarium/dp/B00BS97SP2/

 

[EnderG60]

Awesome, thanks! Yup its 1". Gasket ordered and will hopefully be here Sunday.

 

[EnderG60]

Got all the right parts and everything is back together and working. Thanks for the help with the gasket!

Now Im off to blow stuff up.

 

[slief]

Got all the right parts and everything is back together and working. Thanks for the help with the gasket!

Now Im off to blow stuff up.

Great to hear. Did you use the AquaUV gasket or the one from Suburban Reef?

 

[EnderG60]

The aqua UV one. Its the same as the gamma gasket but purple instead of black.