Urgent. Please Help

[xLennie]

Hello friends

My smaller sized clownfish had sort of heavy breathing/a bit too much gill movement and stringy white poop but had nice activity level and eating. HE started swimming weirdly today and breathing way too heavily. Also did not show much interest to food for the first time. They have been with me for a month if Im not mistaken.

Around 4-5 days ago, I started using kanaplex and metrodinazole in food. In this routine:

Morning: Kanaplex mixed with NLS and soaked with garlic guard.

Midday: Tropical Marin soft formula ( It has probiotic called Bacillus Subtilis. I read scientific papers on it and looks pretty good. I assumed this would help with potential internal issues in this treatment journey)

In the evening: Flagyl (Metronidazole) mixed with NLS pellets and soaked with garlic guard.

They eat all of them well.


I run carbon in my filter to make sure it is cleaned up if any food leaches medicine.



This morning, he seems to start losing majority of his activity and heavy breathing more. What should I do? Please help

I have nitrofurazone, RODI for freshwater dip, malachite green+formaldehyde combined together, flagyl(metronidazole) and kanaplex. No other medicines are available. I have a bit of praziquantel but It has been a while since I used it when I got it from my vet, so it might have lost its activity level in a big degree


The tank is cycled and has been running around 2.5 months. I only have two clownfish in it, keep up with weekly water changes around %15.

Video under both blue and white light:

Watch IMG_0205 | Streamable

Watch IMG_0204 | Streamable


@leebca @HumbleFish I would appreciate if you guys can help

 

[HumbleFish]

The videos are inconclusive, but it sounds like "something" is afflicting the fish's gills. Are you seeing any white dots or white mucous coming off the clownfish? Are any other fish acting off or breathing heavily? Were these clownish quarantined, and if so what medication(s) were used and for how long??

I know you said the tank is cycled, but I would test for ammonia just in case.

 

[xLennie]

The videos are inconclusive, but it sounds like "something" is afflicting the fish's gills. Are you seeing any white dots or white mucous coming off the clownfish? Are any other fish acting off or breathing heavily? Were these clownish quarantined, and if so what medication(s) were used and for how long??

I know you said the tank is cycled, but I would test for ammonia just in case.

Hello Humble

No QT. I got them from the same person from the same tank, and not planning to add any other fish in their tank. So I didn't qt really as both came from both same tank in the lfs and same tank before coming to lfs. They have always been exposed to same pathogens, and since no other fish will come, I thought I don't need to qt.


I checked ammonia/ammonium again. It tests for 0. All clear. Anemones, snails and other clownfish don't show any stress and act normal.

It stays on top, breathes heavily and has very inflamed gills, open and red. I only did your methylene blue dip for 30 mins while waiting for a response. It did have a white empty stringy poop, so I have been trying to treat it with metro+kanaplex and probiotics

 

[xLennie]

More pics. You cant see gills here but they are very red.

You can see the after video of methylene blue dip here:

Urgent. Please Help

Hello friends My smaller sized clownfish had sort of heavy breathing/a bit too much gill movement and stringy white poop but had nice activity level and eating. HE started swimming weirdly today and breathing way too heavily. Also did not show much interest to food for the first time. They have...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[HumbleFish]

Inflamed gills typically indicate ammonia burn, and a 30 minute MB bath is the best treatment for that.

About the white stringy poop: Are the fish looking emaciated and/or have a pinched stomach?

 

[HumbleFish]

Is it possible that some toxin (e.g. household cleaner, bug spray, scented candle) has entered the water and that is irritating the fish's gills?

I would probably run activated carbon (to remove any potential toxins) as a precaution...

 

[xLennie]

Inflamed gills typically indicate ammonia burn, and a 30 minute MB bath is the best treatment for that.

About the white stringy poop: Are the fish looking emaciated and/or have a pinched stomach?

Slightly sunken but nothing too bad as you can see from the pics. But I have seen way worse in my fish keeping past in the freshwater part.

He looks really bad right now tho. He always had really good appetite. He even ate actively last night. I am very surprised to see him like this in the morning.

The tank has 2 clownfish, one fighting conch, 2 anemones, and one banded t.snail. Clowns are from the same breeder.

Is it possible that some toxin (e.g. household cleaner, bug spray, scented candle) has entered the water and that is irritating the fish's gills?

I would probably run activated carbon (to remove any potential toxins) as a precaution...

Not possible. Fish room is in our basement, as our climate is really hot, bedroom tanks reach 30Cs+ during summer time.

I clean the fishroom with %5 hydrogen peroxide only. No chemicals are allowed. I have activated carbon running as I have been feeding medicated food, I wanted to prevent any potential leeches to the water column even tho they eat fast.

 

[HumbleFish]

@xLennie I think all you can do at this point is initiate the salvage protocol: *Salvage protocol for treating very sick fish*

As for the root cause of this problem, it could be parasites or worms inside the gills. Or possibly intestinal worms or internal flagellates. But it doesn't sound like the clownfish is in good enough condition to tolerate medications/treatments at this point. Sometimes latent diseases manifest during or just following a tank move. Possibly due to the stress that puts on the fish and/or disturbing their environment. For example, I've seen Brooklynella rear its ugly head again & again following a nano tank move, but the resident clownfish appeared fine following just 1 formalin bath and put back in the same tank.

 

[xLennie]

@xLennie I think all you can do at this point is initiate the salvage protocol: *Salvage protocol for treating very sick fish*

As for the root cause of this problem, it could be parasites or worms inside the gills. Or possibly intestinal worms or internal flagellates. But it doesn't sound like the clownfish is in good enough condition to tolerate medications/treatments at this point. Sometimes latent diseases manifest during or just following a tank move. Possibly due to the stress that puts on the fish and/or disturbing their environment. For example, I've seen Brooklynella rear its ugly head again & again following a nano tank move, but the resident clownfish appeared fine following just 1 formalin bath and put back in the same tank.

I moved it to a qt and decreased salinity and temp as recommended in the link you shared.

But I don't think I can even find that thingy, and these are legit babies, so even if I do, I don't think I can even inject anything properly.

Should I dose anything to qt water? Like nitrofurazone or malachitegreen+formaldehyde? Or kanaplex, metronidazole or cipro?

 

[xLennie]

So. Here is an update: @HumbleFish

Yesterday I seperated the fish, decreased salinity and temperature in the QT and dosed metronidazole and nitrofurazone to the water column. Didn’t move the cycled sponge in, as nitrofurazone and metronidazole would harm the cycle anyway. Just using an airstone. Dosed prime for ammonia. Darkened the tank totally.

This morning he was doing much better. Still heavy breathing but not as much as in the previous videos. Slowed down noticably. Swims normally, not gasping for air anymore on the surface.

Should I just keep up with daily %50 water changes and add the medicine back for the renewed ratio, or just make %100 wcs? Or do you have any other method? Nitrofurazone+metro seem to be working well rn. How many days should I dose them?

 

[HumbleFish]

Should I just keep up with daily %50 water changes and add the medicine back for the renewed ratio, or just make %100 wcs? Or do you have any other method? Nitrofurazone+metro seem to be working well rn. How many days should I dose them?

I would do 50% water changes, and keep dosing nitrofurazone (every 24 hours) and metronidazole (every 48 hours). Keep doing this for at least 7 days, and we can reevaluate his condition.

 

[xLennie]

Hello again Humble,

I would do 50% water changes, and keep dosing nitrofurazone (every 24 hours) and metronidazole (every 48 hours). Keep doing this for at least 7 days, and we can reevaluate his condition.

His gasping and heavy breathing as well as gill redness is fairly lowered gradually. Not completely gone tho.

Therefore, I dosed some praziquantel yesterday besides nitrofurazone, but not metro. The fish is white, so hard to see flukes visually. What if it is the gill flukes causing the inflamation?

I have been feeding metro for 4-5 days, and dosed to water column twice at this point. Should I give it a break?

the complete treatment so far looks like this:
- Suspecting potential problems with empty poop;
Every morning- kanaplex food, midday probiotic food, evening metro food for 4-5 days

- He suddenly gets bad next morning. I go for a methylene blue dip, 30mins
-Same day, I moved him to QT. Dose nitro and metro - for 2 days. Dosed prime for ammonia and %100 water changes every day.
-Last night- Dosed nitro+praziquantel.

I wonder, after completing prazi in the water for one day, Should I keep him in a seperate tank with normal salinity and temperature and with a cycled sponge? Without any meds.

I dunno how can I make him eat again. I have ocean nutrition marine mix (blend of Artemia, pacific Krill, chopped cockles and rotifers), garlic guard, New life spectrum thera A+, New life spectrum small fish formula, Tropical Marine probiotic soft formula, Tropical krill flakes and spirulina flakes.

Also, if you think I should stop medicating and move him to a clean but seperate cycled normal temp/salinity tank, should I try freshwater dip before doing so? OR would it be too harsh/stressful?

 

[xLennie]

As an update: he just ate one piece of adult artemia for the first time after 3 days. Im SOOOOOOOO HAPPY.

Is there an alternative to copper to treat ich/velvet? I suspect if it is the issue. Since fish are white, I cant see anything. What's wrong with using malachite green+formaldehyde in marine tanks? Works great for freshwater in my experience @leebca @HumbleFish

I FOUND CUPRAMINE FROM A FRIEND! He has a bottle and will share some with me. If I buy a normal copper test kit, would I be safe enough? We dont have hanna checker here.

Or following directions on bottle is good enough? (1ml for 40 liter, dose 48 hours later again, so 2mls in total)

 

[HumbleFish]

As an update: he just ate one piece of adult artemia for the first time after 3 days. Im SOOOOOOOO HAPPY.

Is there an alternative to copper to treat ich/velvet? I suspect if it is the issue. Since fish are white, I cant see anything. What's wrong with using malachite green+formaldehyde in marine tanks? Works great for freshwater in my experience @leebca @HumbleFish

I FOUND CUPRAMINE FROM A FRIEND! He has a bottle and will share some with me. If I buy a normal copper test kit, would I be safe enough? We dont have hanna checker here.

Or following directions on bottle is good enough? (1ml for 40 liter, dose 48 hours later again, so 2mls in total)

Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) is much more difficult to completely eliminate than freshwater ich (Ichthyophthirius multifiliis). This is why copper has to used and tested to ensure it remains at a therapeutic level for 30 days in a QT.

Unless you're color blind, you should be able to use a Seachem or Salifert test kit for Cupramine. But the High Range Copper Colorimeter (HI702) is most accurate, especially for people who are color blind. I recommend treating between 0.5-0.6ppm for 30 days to eliminate marine ich + velvet.

 

[xLennie]

Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) is much more difficult to completely eliminate than freshwater ich (Ichthyophthirius multifiliis). This is why copper has to used and tested to ensure it remains at a therapeutic level for 30 days in a QT.

Unless you're color blind, you should be able to use a Seachem or Salifert test kit for Cupramine. But the High Range Copper Colorimeter (HI702) is most accurate, especially for people who are color blind. I recommend treating between 0.5-0.6ppm for 30 days to eliminate marine ich + velvet.

Noted for the future.

He sadly passed away and nothing I ever tried worked.

 

[HumbleFish]