Urgent questions about Sumps/Refugiums

[HostileYet]

Hello all. I had a question about a sump. I built one out of a 10 gallon aquarium, I drilled the holes and put the bulkheads and put all the glass where it needs to be, I have ball vales on the pipes before the inlet (nothing constricting the pump its self) and the water is flowing in either to fast for the pump to work or its going to slow and the pump starts running semi-dry. I wanted to know if I can put a solid glass top over the tank and glue it down so the tank can flow more without overflowing. Will having the tank airtight effect it negatively in any way? (besides having to take the lid off when changing the media) Also would it just blow the lid out even if its just flowing up slowly? (IE- not pushing tons of water in at once, just enough to keep filling it). Any help would be appreciated. Thanks a lot guys and gals, Awaiting a response. - Bryan :bounce1:

 

[tygger]

I wouldn't recommend enclosing the sump like that for various reasons, but let's figure out the real problem.

Describe or take a pic of your setup. Something doesn't sound right. The drain from the display should only flow as much as the pump from the sump can return water.

 

[SurfCastinRI]

How is the pump running semi dry if there is too much water entering the sump? I agree, something isn't right. There is no way for the water to overflow faster than the pump is pushing it in.

 

[thor109]

I think the 10 gallon sump has baffles that are two high. There is no expansion space. When the pump turn on it drains the sump tank before water can make the cycle through the return system. He would need to fill the sump as it is drained until everything catches up. Problem is if there is a power failure it will flood. Won't know for sure until we see pictures

 

[tygger]

I think the 10 gallon sump has baffles that are two high. There is no expansion space. When the pump turn on it drains the sump tank before water can make the cycle through the return system. He would need to fill the sump as it is drained until everything catches up. Problem is if there is a power failure it will flood. Won't know for sure until we see pictures

This sounds right.

 

[falconut]

I think the 10 gallon sump has baffles that are two high. There is no expansion space. When the pump turn on it drains the sump tank before water can make the cycle through the return system. He would need to fill the sump as it is drained until everything catches up. Problem is if there is a power failure it will flood. Won't know for sure until we see pictures

If this is the case the sump is too small. Hopefully something else is going wrong. But, I definitely wouldn't recommend trying to glue a lid to make it airtight. It would probably leak anyway. It would be a serious problem when it blew out, which it almost likely would.

 

[HostileYet]

Here's pictures of it. It's a 10 gallon, about 20" long and 10" wide, The baffles are 8" tall.

 

[HostileYet]

Don't mind all the bags and everything in there, I was experimenting will flow and filtration =P

 

[HostileYet]

How is the pump running semi dry if there is too much water entering the sump? I agree, something isn't right. There is no way for the water to overflow faster than the pump is pushing it in.

Well I have to keep adjusting it. It runs semi dry when I have it bairly going pushing less water in then is being pumped out. So I turn it up a little big and it starts filling more then it can pump. I must of messed around with it for hours yesterday trying to get the perfect amount :headwally:

 

[HostileYet]

Bump bum-pity bumpbumpbump

 

[badbreath]

To me it looks like the "out" hole should be at the bottom so it is less likely for the pump to run dry.

The water that is pumped out should be replaced by the water draining from the overflow...maybe the overflow isn't draining fast enough... To me it should matter if the pump flow is fast or slow, the overflow must drain fast enough to keep up.

 

[HostileYet]

To me it looks like the "out" hole should be at the bottom so it is less likely for the pump to run dry.

The water that is pumped out should be replaced by the water draining from the overflow...maybe the overflow isn't draining fast enough... To me it should matter if the pump flow is fast or slow, the overflow must drain fast enough to keep up.

Well I have the pipes going INTO the sump fitted with ball valves. If they are fully opened then the tank will fill so much it will overflow. If there half closed the tank will drain to much and the pump will start pumping air (empty). It's something from the point of the Pipes to the inlet of the Sump. :headwalls:

 

[badbreath]

I'm only familiar with my setup for what it's worth, I'd say leave ball valves wide open and remove a few gallons so it doesn't overflow. If you do this, then the water pumped out should be immediately replaced by the overflow.

 

[Sgtauto]

Don't know what pump it is but likely a large pump for 10 gal. I see 2 issues. 1 your pump feed or outlet needs to be at the bottom. 2 looks like not much empty volume in sump for power failure when running correctly.

Basically the pump has to pump enough water to make sufficient head to feed the drain. And the more volume the pump pushes the more head it creates in the tank. Then when powered down that head of water drains into the sump.

 

[Sgtauto]

This assumes a big enough drain. And the bigger the tank surface area the bigger the volume.

 

[HostileYet]

How can I keep the inlet from pumping to much water in when fully opened? And if I decide to remake the sump how could I do it?

 

[badbreath]

This is how my sump is setup (with a skimmer these days). Notice that it is not even half full of water. This way if power is lost the water draining back in will not overflow all over the floor. Also the return pump is sucking from the bottom, that way I have to lose a lot more water (from evaporation) before having any issues. This is how I would do it if I were you and doing it over...dead simple.

 

[badbreath]

One other thing... with this being a 215 gallon tank and the pump you have being close to1000 GPH you are moving a lot of water through a very small tank (sump), exchanging the water in the sump every 30 second or so. Seems to fast to me. I think you'd want a 40-50 gallon sump. But, again, I only have experience with my sump setup...

 

[HostileYet]

Alright. When I have my 215g fully filtered then I can transfer my fish (there in a 55 right now) maybe I can use that aquarium. Though I have no idea where to place a 55 anywhere near this one. I also have a huge 40g and a medium 20 and a long 20. would any of those work alright?

 

[HostileYet]

Also maybe if I take out 2 of the baffles? Would that possibly help? I'm thinking it might let it flow smoother. I can possibly move the out bulkhead to the bottom (and close off the hole) Does that sound good to anyone or is that a big hell no?