Venting... so how bad is your LFS?

[coralnut99]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11071769#post11071769 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by poppin_fresh
what you need to remember is that a lot of LFSs buy their stuff from distributors, not straight from the manufacturer. They simply dont have the volume. My LFS sells IO for $65 per bucket, not because they want to, but because they pay over $55 for it!

There will always be stores that take advantage, but IMO the majority at the Dis-advantage when it comes to competing against the big guys.

This is it in a nutshell folks. I'd love to see internet pricing within a short drive from work, but it isn't going to happen. I've seen their invoices too, and they don't make anywhere near what we all think.
It's also easy to say that they should just shop around for the best pricing on this stuff, but if the owner spends all of his time scouring the net for the cheapest salt, who makes sure the water changes are getting done, or that the new shipment is being acclimated correctly? Hire a person to handle the "book work"? Watch the prices go even higher.

No it just isn't a level playing field between The good Doctors and your LFS, so unless you want to end up dealing with 2 large e-tailers a few years from now, spread your money around a bit and just shop with common sense.

If you think those frag prices are high, you haven't checked some websites. And you buy based on a picture, and pay for shipping too.

 

[phenom5]

ahh...the old LFS debate.

well, i'm currently on my 3 LFS. the first one was okay, not very much in the way of corals, but what they did have was 2 huge tanks that were filled with nothing but cleanup crew inverts. hermits, snails, cucumbers galore. anyone that thinks that the LFS's are raking in the cash with their huge markups...well this store was a staple locally. they'd been around for at least 20 years, but because of PetsMart/Co & online vendors, they are now closed. too bad really, their invert tanks were great.

LFS #2 was a marine only store. their prices are pretty high, but i bought corals from them, it really wasn't that much higher when you look at shipping cost, and i figured that being able to visually inspect the corals before purchasing made it worth it. that was until i realized why their prices were so high. with every coral purchase, you got some aiptasia...free of charge! :hyper: after a long battle with joe's juice and some peppermint shrimp i had gotten rid of the aiptasia in my tank, and i went back down to this LFS. it's one of those things, i don't know how i missed them, but their tanks were completely infested with aiptasia. i spoke with the owner about it, but he pretty much just shrugged it off...nothing he could do about it, he said. that was the last time i went in there.

LFS #3. i have hope for this store. the owner's pretty cool. i've bought a few pieces from there, and now when i go in, he usually gives me a bit of a discount. he, and several of his employees have reef tanks setup, and they are all either members here at RC, or regualrly visit other reef forums. very knowledgable, and they actually seem to care.

i purchase most of my dry goods & equipment online, you can't beat the selection and prices.

it's on the customer to investigate LFS and determine if they are going to shop there. anytime i try out a new LFS i go in with a few baseline questions, and play dumb. you can learn a lot about a LFS's knowledge, and care for their stock with a few simple questions.

 

[seapug]

No doubt there are unscrupulous LFS owners, just like there are sketchy car mechanics, lawyers, doctors, investment bankers, and CEOs of major corporations, but until you've owned and ran a brock and mortar retail operation that involves the sale of "living products" (not trickets that sit on a shelf), you really have no basis to make judgements about what is an appropriate markup for an item.

Start paying rent on a retail space and investing in hundreds of thousands of dollars into setting up and stocking the store and paying employees and business taxes and then sell things for the same price people can get them online. Do it for 1 year.

At the end of each month you'll sit down to balance the books, take the leftover change and put in your pocket and call it a "salary." Then get in your broken down car to drive to your house that's in foreclsoure or apartment you're about to be evicted from. On the way home
you'll think about the bills you haven't paid and how long it's been since you had a vacation or even a day off.

At that point you'll probably start thinking about how much you need to raise your prices.

 

[ljosh]

Having compared a wholesale catalogue to online prices I do not know how people even get started into a LFS. There where online site selling the same items for penny less retail then what I could get it from the supplier for at wholesale. Unless I had $100,000 or more to invest in stock.

 

[phenom5]

No doubt there are unscrupulous LFS owners, just like there are sketchy car mechanics, lawyers, doctors, investment bankers, and CEOs of major corporations, but until you've owned and ran a brock and mortar retail operation that involves the sale of "living products" (not trickets that sit on a shelf), you really have no basis to make judgements about what is an appropriate markup for an item.

Start paying rent on a retail space and investing in hundreds of thousands of dollars into setting up and stocking the store and paying employees and business taxes and then sell things for the same price people can get them online. Do it for 1 year.

At the end of each month you'll sit down to balance the books, take the leftover change and put in your pocket and call it a "salary." Then get in your broken down car to drive to your house that's in foreclsoure or apartment you're about to be evicted from. On the way home
you'll think about the bills you haven't paid and how long it's been since you had a vacation or even a day off.

At that point you'll probably start thinking about how much you need to raise your prices.

well said pug. LFS's are no different than any other local mom & pop that's trying to compete against big corporate box stores and online retailers. don't worry though, at the rate we're going, pretty soon the LFS's will be gone and you'll only be able to shop at PetsMart/Co or online. then nobody will have to complain about how bad the lfs is.

 

[mburke]

I just recently ran into a similar situation. A client of mine wished to purchase some performance upgrades for their vette. Went to a web site and found our name along with some others who offer their products. I gave him the his cost of the parts,which was my cost plus 10 percent(I am in business to make a living). He told me I was "ripping him off". I explained to him how my prcie was arrived at. Well some guy on the net was selling it shipped to his door for 1000 dollars less. How could this be so I called my rep and was told this guy is the companies largest retailer and his office is 8x12 with two phone lines and a fax machine. He takes orders and then places them with the manufacturer for drop shipping and takes his cut.
But I did get the last laugh on this client two of his parts were broken in transit and now he must wait for manufacturer to recieve broken items back and decide if warranty will be authorized. I told client if they came from me I mould warranty and worry about replacement later it is not his fault parts are broken in my eyes but since I did not supply them they are not my resopsibility. Call your salesman.
Mike

 

[djc1026]

My gripe is not so much the price by itself. I think I have a vague understanding of the economics of the situation My problem is the quality of service, knowledge and products I receive. Most of my experiences with big chain or individually owned "pet stores" is the inexperienced employee. If you find a speacialized store, you will find that the pricing is more competitive, and the service and knowledge is invaluable. Granted there are some of these that I have found outrageous as well, but not generally from my experiences.

Case in point, we have 3 shops in my area that deal with marine aquariums. Two are general pet stores, individually owned, one is saltwater only. The two general pet stores, have teenage employees who don't know much less than the owners. The one specialty store, the owner knows his stuff (at times a little antiquated but it's worked for years for him ), he knows his customers, he puts in the time, he'll bend over backwards to help his "regulars" and he's competitively priced lower than the other two stores. Yet in my estimation, he's barely treading water. He's the only place locally I will by a fish from. If he could stock more, I would have no heartburn paying local prices. He doesn't have to worry about Petco/smart, the two other locals have their space etched in stone in this area. They're not making all their money on SW products, dogs, cats and birds are their bread and butter and those willing to pay the SW prices...well that's probably just gravy in my opinion

Dave

 

[mburke]

I just recently ran into a similar situation. A client of mine wished to purchase some performance upgrades for their vette. Went to a web site and found our name along with some others who offer their products. I gave him the his cost of the parts,which was my cost plus 10 percent(I am in business to make a living). He told me I was "ripping him off". I explained to him how my prcie was arrived at. Well some guy on the net was selling it shipped to his door for 1000 dollars less. How could this be so I called my rep and was told this guy is the companies largest retailer and his office is 8x12 with two phone lines and a fax machine. He takes orders and then places them with the manufacturer for drop shipping and takes his cut.
But I did get the last laugh on this client two of his parts were broken in transit and now he must wait for manufacturer to recieve broken items back and decide if warranty will be authorized. I told client if they came from me I mould warranty and worry about replacement later it is not his fault parts are broken in my eyes but since I did not supply them they are not my resopsibility. Call your salesman.
Mike

 

[mburke]

I just recently ran into a similar situation. A client of mine wished to purchase some performance upgrades for their vette. Went to a web site and found our name along with some others who offer their products. I gave him the his cost of the parts,which was my cost plus 10 percent(I am in business to make a living). He told me I was "ripping him off". I explained to him how my prcie was arrived at. Well some guy on the net was selling it shipped to his door for 1000 dollars less. How could this be so I called my rep and was told this guy is the companies largest retailer and his office is 8x12 with two phone lines and a fax machine. He takes orders and then places them with the manufacturer for drop shipping and takes his cut.
But I did get the last laugh on this client two of his parts were broken in transit and now he must wait for manufacturer to recieve broken items back and decide if warranty will be authorized. I told client if they came from me I mould warranty and worry about replacement later it is not his fault parts are broken in my eyes but since I did not supply them they are not my resopsibility. Call your salesman.
Mike

 

[kathainbowen]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11074450#post11074450 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Macimage
Yes, it would be tedious if the same posters were complaining about this repeatly. However, I think when someone that registered in Aug. 2007 comes on and posts their personal experience that they just had for the first time, that it's unfair to say you are tired of reading the same threads over and over.

It appears that you've lumped everyone that ever complained about their lfs into one composite. It's important to remember that what might be news to a new poster may be something you've seen posted over and over.

Joyce

Y'know what. It's not worth it at this point. If you're unhappy with your LFS, don't shop there. If you're happy, continue to show patronage and support, either through simply making your purchases there or recommending it to other reef keepers. Either way, the choice is up to you, and that's the point I've been trying to make.

Out.

 

[Fizz71]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11071933#post11071933 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cd77
I wonder what is to stop a LFS from buying directly from a larger retailer that sells at prices lower (say, $30 for IO versus $55 for what they pay) and re-sell it?

For those of you that know "That Fish Place/That Pet Place"...they were an RC sponsor for a short time and do a lot of mail order...they are actually an "LFS" to me at only 40 minutes away. I was shopping there a while back and this guy was buying TONS of stuff..Salt Buckets, Live Stock, etc... It was on a weekend when the try to offload the remaining livestock at a discount prior to the next week's shipment.

I said: "Damn...you must have some serious setups at your house."
To which he responded: "Actually I own a pet store and it's cheaper for me to get my stuff here."
...I was speechless.

--Fizz

 

[IndyReefMan]

Yep... I live near Premium Aquatics and drive there frequently. I see employees of the local LFS's there stocking up all the time. They all know me and are usually embarrassed to see me there... like I caught them red-handed.

 

[seapug]

yes, probably not because the "per unit" cost is any cheaper, but he can buy a few at a time vs. having to shell out $5000 for a truckload of salt when he only needs 5 buckets. Wholesaler minumums is another thing that makes life difficult for the average small business.

 

[TWallace]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11073545#post11073545 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kathainbowen
No, just that we've seen the same series of posts over and over again. People have been complaining about the costs of LFSs for ages, and, yet, the continue to shop at ones they claim to be so expensive as opposed to seeking out alternatives to save money such as just simply not supporting LFSs that grossly over charge. It's like repeatedly touching a hot eye on your stove and getting angry at the stove for burning your hand. Listening to people say, "Ow, it's hot!" gets old, so I was trying to point out the simple solutions to saving money. Why repeat the same behavior and expect different results when you can try different things to potentially yield different results?

I didn't see anywhere in the original post where he said he bought anything from the LFS. I saw his post as a simple complaint about an LFS with horrible prices.