Kolognekoral
New member
If you aquarium has inner side braces that will impede the light entry, a fixture a bit inside this dimension would be effective. I have such braces on a 136cm long tank and the 120cm Illumina is a good fit.
Vertex Illumina Club
- Thread starter deangelr
- Start date
Eastamherstbias
New member
For a 4x2x2. 120gallon mixed reef. Would the illumine 200 work or is the 260 far superior.
-Austin
-Austin
aufo8mycat
New member
200 would be fine
Kolognekoral
New member
I agree. Over a depth from 30" the 260 is your baby, but at 24", no problem with the 200.
AGYDAL
New member
Is it me or does it seem that everyone keeps harping on this fixture reaching to the very end of their tanks? If this fixture is being compared to 400w metal halides, why are people acting like they're dealing with long bulbs (T5, PCs, whateva)?
I know they are totally different but...
LED with optics VS. halide bulb with reflector...
Same concept right?
I know on my tank that I run halides on, I never gave a moments thought about the halide bulbs running to the end of the tank.
I know they are totally different but...
LED with optics VS. halide bulb with reflector...
Same concept right?
I know on my tank that I run halides on, I never gave a moments thought about the halide bulbs running to the end of the tank.
Kolognekoral
New member
Agydal,
they really aren't easy to compare to each other. First, Vertex does NOT use optics, instead, they cluster the LEDs to create intense wide angle spotlights, which is a bit in the direction of HQI. Definitely better for the shimmer. One of the disadvantages of HQI was a 'dead zone' of intense light directly under the bulb, where many corals, etc. couldn't live. Too bright and too hot. With LEDs one can have a smaller spot with literally no heat transfer to the tank and a 'softer' lighting.
Running the LEDs to the end only makes sense if something is living there or for the aesthetic, but most of us use every millimeter. As the Vertex is a 'soft spotlight' lighting with a wide angle, the light pads will have overlap of their light cones in the tank. If the pads do not run as close to the edge of the tank as possible, you will always have a slightly dimmer light in this area. Not great crime, just posssibly not optimum. I'm sure some will like this effect.
I get the feeling you are thinking in terms of 1 to 1 comparison, 250W HQI to LED array. In this case, no, they don't compare well. Then there is the spectrum, but that's another topic.
they really aren't easy to compare to each other. First, Vertex does NOT use optics, instead, they cluster the LEDs to create intense wide angle spotlights, which is a bit in the direction of HQI. Definitely better for the shimmer. One of the disadvantages of HQI was a 'dead zone' of intense light directly under the bulb, where many corals, etc. couldn't live. Too bright and too hot. With LEDs one can have a smaller spot with literally no heat transfer to the tank and a 'softer' lighting.
Running the LEDs to the end only makes sense if something is living there or for the aesthetic, but most of us use every millimeter. As the Vertex is a 'soft spotlight' lighting with a wide angle, the light pads will have overlap of their light cones in the tank. If the pads do not run as close to the edge of the tank as possible, you will always have a slightly dimmer light in this area. Not great crime, just posssibly not optimum. I'm sure some will like this effect.
I get the feeling you are thinking in terms of 1 to 1 comparison, 250W HQI to LED array. In this case, no, they don't compare well. Then there is the spectrum, but that's another topic.
aufo8mycat
New member
I have the sr1500 and i have 182x76x60cm tank so the lights are about 10cm from each end,
I only added water today so water is pretty cloudy but it sort of helps to show the spread in each colour
thought i would take some colour difference shots just 100% of each colour with lights 15cm from water surface
100% white rising
100% white
100% Royal blue
100% Blue
Everything on at 100%
and you can have everything in between:
Now i just wish water would clear up and could get skimmer working the way is supposed to but that should be done tomorrow, if i get away from pc and build a 10cm stand to raise it so happy i bought this light now just to get something growing under it
I only added water today so water is pretty cloudy but it sort of helps to show the spread in each colour
thought i would take some colour difference shots just 100% of each colour with lights 15cm from water surface
100% white rising
100% white
100% Royal blue
100% Blue
Everything on at 100%
and you can have everything in between:
Now i just wish water would clear up and could get skimmer working the way is supposed to but that should be done tomorrow, if i get away from pc and build a 10cm stand to raise it so happy i bought this light now just to get something growing under it
AGYDAL
New member
Kolognekoral,
No, I know there is a great difference...I even stated "I know they are totally different"...that's why I chose this and not another HQI fixture(s). I've had experience with LEDs long before people started putting them on tanks.
LED & HQI comparisons are like apples and oranges but there are still similarities...there are clusters of LED light that overlap, I also thought that there were 120 degree optics on this fixture? Those are some wide optics, but they're still optics....Though I have a smaller fixture when I look at the LED from the underside I see LED pads with spacing that will allow for light overlap.
Ah yes, the spectrum...HQI degrades much faster, has undesireable elements in them, heat and whatever...I understand this too.
Also, awhile back I asked about increasing the cloud time to increase photoperiod...I never asked if the power supply stopped like you responded with...I asked if anyone else had thought of this to allow for a longer viewing time of their tank.
And I disagree with the clouds just dimming the light in nature...if the right storm blows in you can get nighttime light during the daytime...you ever lived on the ocean? I have...no matter how dark it gets you still have UV that makes it through the clouds...so far there isn't the UV pad available for sale stateside at this that I know of...no UV + 100% dark clouds allow for longer viewing times...simple math.
You're suddenly on here giving all this advise but where are the pictures of your tank? Seems you deflect to other questions rather than elaborate or your trials and errors in your experiences much?
Current tank at 5 months:
<a href=http://s1131.photobucket.com/albums/m547/AGYDAL/?action=view¤t=2011-04-16133904.jpg target=_blank><img src=http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/m547/AGYDAL/2011-04-16133904.jpg border=0 alt=></a>
Top view:
<a href=http://s1131.photobucket.com/albums/m547/AGYDAL/?action=view¤t=2011-04-16175003.jpg target=_blank><img src=http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/m547/AGYDAL/2011-04-16175003.jpg border=0 alt=></a>
Former view from my window:
<a href=http://s1131.photobucket.com/albums/m547/AGYDAL/?action=view¤t=208020_555463784029_6824047_30058382_4617_n.jpg target=_blank><img src=http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/m547/AGYDAL/208020_555463784029_6824047_30058382_4617_n.jpg border=0 alt=></a>
About 6:30 pm...looks Like nighttime one the left...yet I was facing west when I took this photograph hmmm...
<a href=http://s1131.photobucket.com/albums/m547/AGYDAL/?action=view¤t=215955_555463629339_6824047_30056552_5042_n.jpg target=_blank><img src=http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/m547/AGYDAL/215955_555463629339_6824047_30056552_5042_n.jpg border=0 alt=></a>
Just supporting my thoughts and questions with some photo back up...wish more people would follow suit...
Aufo8mycat- once again, thank you for the pictures!
No, I know there is a great difference...I even stated "I know they are totally different"...that's why I chose this and not another HQI fixture(s). I've had experience with LEDs long before people started putting them on tanks.
LED & HQI comparisons are like apples and oranges but there are still similarities...there are clusters of LED light that overlap, I also thought that there were 120 degree optics on this fixture? Those are some wide optics, but they're still optics....Though I have a smaller fixture when I look at the LED from the underside I see LED pads with spacing that will allow for light overlap.
Ah yes, the spectrum...HQI degrades much faster, has undesireable elements in them, heat and whatever...I understand this too.
Also, awhile back I asked about increasing the cloud time to increase photoperiod...I never asked if the power supply stopped like you responded with...I asked if anyone else had thought of this to allow for a longer viewing time of their tank.
And I disagree with the clouds just dimming the light in nature...if the right storm blows in you can get nighttime light during the daytime...you ever lived on the ocean? I have...no matter how dark it gets you still have UV that makes it through the clouds...so far there isn't the UV pad available for sale stateside at this that I know of...no UV + 100% dark clouds allow for longer viewing times...simple math.
You're suddenly on here giving all this advise but where are the pictures of your tank? Seems you deflect to other questions rather than elaborate or your trials and errors in your experiences much?
Current tank at 5 months:
<a href=http://s1131.photobucket.com/albums/m547/AGYDAL/?action=view¤t=2011-04-16133904.jpg target=_blank><img src=http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/m547/AGYDAL/2011-04-16133904.jpg border=0 alt=></a>
Top view:
<a href=http://s1131.photobucket.com/albums/m547/AGYDAL/?action=view¤t=2011-04-16175003.jpg target=_blank><img src=http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/m547/AGYDAL/2011-04-16175003.jpg border=0 alt=></a>
Former view from my window:
<a href=http://s1131.photobucket.com/albums/m547/AGYDAL/?action=view¤t=208020_555463784029_6824047_30058382_4617_n.jpg target=_blank><img src=http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/m547/AGYDAL/208020_555463784029_6824047_30058382_4617_n.jpg border=0 alt=></a>
About 6:30 pm...looks Like nighttime one the left...yet I was facing west when I took this photograph hmmm...
<a href=http://s1131.photobucket.com/albums/m547/AGYDAL/?action=view¤t=215955_555463629339_6824047_30056552_5042_n.jpg target=_blank><img src=http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/m547/AGYDAL/215955_555463629339_6824047_30056552_5042_n.jpg border=0 alt=></a>
Just supporting my thoughts and questions with some photo back up...wish more people would follow suit...
Aufo8mycat- once again, thank you for the pictures!
aufo8mycat
New member
I got the corner peices etc to make the light stand at bunnings (i think your equivalent would be homedepot) just cut aluminium and slot it in give it a whack with a rubber mallet and done took 1.5 hours, total cost $120AUD including hacksaw
I can lift it with 2 fingers and was able to stand on the cross beams that support light,(65kg) In hindsight I wish i had have thought it out a bit more and put 2 upside-down U in the bottom to run cables through currently have to remove pumps to remove lights
Kolognekoral
New member
Agydal,
I don't understand why you seem to be upset with me! I've attempted to answer questions (your or from others) based on my own experience as aquarist (40 years!). I see no reason why you should be reacting as you are. I am sorry, if you are getting the wrong impression. This is unintended.
As to why I am 'suddenly' commenting on Vertex is quite simple, I am doing work for them at the moment (translation, UK program) and have quite a different view of what is going on in the development of LED lighting. I am fortunate enough to have a few unpublished test reports on LEDs for aquariums, from which I am basing many of my comments, plus my own experiences, of course. From what I have been researching and reading, my previous approach to LEDs, using optics for deeper tanks and spreading the array evenly over the tank area, has changed. I find the clustering method better for spectral mix, general illumination and economics. Also, I find it much more aesthetic. At this point we still need to better understand what parts of the spectrum (and at what amounts/percentages) are useful or even required for long term success. I personally like a bit more toward the UVA spectrum (400nm), but is it required or simply usefull? Also, just how far into the green spectrum can one go without a cyanobacteria bloom? They utilize from about 520nm to 600nm.
As for storms, I grew up right on the ocean (only recently away from the sea, but so is it) and know from own experience how weather effects the light. Even in the tropics, clouds do rarely blacken the sky to such an extent that there is no reasonable amount of light. I'm thinking we misunderstand each other, here, as changing the lighting outside of a 24 hour cycle (aprox 12 on top 12 off) is not a very natural method. Be that as it may, I do know aquarists that play with their lighting in order to enjoy their aquariums when they are at home. You could really write a book as to the noted changes in growth, behaviors and general stability of a marine system, when one moves too far away from the natural light cycle. I've not heard of anything being downright killed by unnatural light regimens, but we can generally call them damaging (FO tanks probably don't mind). Is this what you are going on about? Putting 12 hours of lighting into different sections of the 24 hour cycle? Darkness is just as important to corals as light. Just how much one can change the 'packaging' is still unclear. I can tell you, spawning is impeded by strange light rhythms. If we understood more of how the lunar light effects reefs, we may better understand what would be possible. Then, again, I do prefer leaving such cycles as close to nature's developement as possible.
As to the Illumina itself, it dims its lighting, but does not turn it off (unless you set it to 'off' of course). This is a fine line, as the 100% dimming is producing no visible light, however, power is still running and you wouldn't want to confuse dimming with an on-off switch. Not that one could get a shock, but the circuit is still live, just as with a household dimmer. (most now have an 'off' position as well as dimming, at least in Europe).
Nice tank you have coming along, by the way. When I get a decent camera, I'll post a few shots of mine. It is definitely experimental, as that's kind of my job, and houses some fish I've had for over 10 years, when this was first set up. Some of the corals are almost as old, although trimmed well back and, yes, I still kill things now and then. I'm particularly happy with my achilles doctor. He's definitely the king and almost a pet, if you follow me. He's a bit too fast to photograph well.
A question for you, with LEDs have you noticed a strong reduction in nuisance alga? I find, other than diatoms, most 'alga', especially cynobacteria, don't relish the limited spectrum of most LED set-ups.
so, can we be friends?
I don't understand why you seem to be upset with me! I've attempted to answer questions (your or from others) based on my own experience as aquarist (40 years!). I see no reason why you should be reacting as you are. I am sorry, if you are getting the wrong impression. This is unintended.
As to why I am 'suddenly' commenting on Vertex is quite simple, I am doing work for them at the moment (translation, UK program) and have quite a different view of what is going on in the development of LED lighting. I am fortunate enough to have a few unpublished test reports on LEDs for aquariums, from which I am basing many of my comments, plus my own experiences, of course. From what I have been researching and reading, my previous approach to LEDs, using optics for deeper tanks and spreading the array evenly over the tank area, has changed. I find the clustering method better for spectral mix, general illumination and economics. Also, I find it much more aesthetic. At this point we still need to better understand what parts of the spectrum (and at what amounts/percentages) are useful or even required for long term success. I personally like a bit more toward the UVA spectrum (400nm), but is it required or simply usefull? Also, just how far into the green spectrum can one go without a cyanobacteria bloom? They utilize from about 520nm to 600nm.
As for storms, I grew up right on the ocean (only recently away from the sea, but so is it) and know from own experience how weather effects the light. Even in the tropics, clouds do rarely blacken the sky to such an extent that there is no reasonable amount of light. I'm thinking we misunderstand each other, here, as changing the lighting outside of a 24 hour cycle (aprox 12 on top 12 off) is not a very natural method. Be that as it may, I do know aquarists that play with their lighting in order to enjoy their aquariums when they are at home. You could really write a book as to the noted changes in growth, behaviors and general stability of a marine system, when one moves too far away from the natural light cycle. I've not heard of anything being downright killed by unnatural light regimens, but we can generally call them damaging (FO tanks probably don't mind). Is this what you are going on about? Putting 12 hours of lighting into different sections of the 24 hour cycle? Darkness is just as important to corals as light. Just how much one can change the 'packaging' is still unclear. I can tell you, spawning is impeded by strange light rhythms. If we understood more of how the lunar light effects reefs, we may better understand what would be possible. Then, again, I do prefer leaving such cycles as close to nature's developement as possible.
As to the Illumina itself, it dims its lighting, but does not turn it off (unless you set it to 'off' of course). This is a fine line, as the 100% dimming is producing no visible light, however, power is still running and you wouldn't want to confuse dimming with an on-off switch. Not that one could get a shock, but the circuit is still live, just as with a household dimmer. (most now have an 'off' position as well as dimming, at least in Europe).
Nice tank you have coming along, by the way. When I get a decent camera, I'll post a few shots of mine. It is definitely experimental, as that's kind of my job, and houses some fish I've had for over 10 years, when this was first set up. Some of the corals are almost as old, although trimmed well back and, yes, I still kill things now and then. I'm particularly happy with my achilles doctor. He's definitely the king and almost a pet, if you follow me. He's a bit too fast to photograph well.
A question for you, with LEDs have you noticed a strong reduction in nuisance alga? I find, other than diatoms, most 'alga', especially cynobacteria, don't relish the limited spectrum of most LED set-ups.
so, can we be friends?
I was considering the 24' Illumina 200 for my elos 70, but after some digging (and seeing pictures posted) it appears that a 12' unit would even work fine! This is awesome, and much more in-line with my budget (which got blown getting the elos).
I'll be sure to provide pixs once everything is running.
I'll be sure to provide pixs once everything is running.
Kolognekoral
New member
Mike, what are the actual dimensions of the tank. Do you mean it is 34" from front to back?
Jamie
Kolognekoral
New member
Mike,
as the light is leaving the source in a aprox. 120° angled beam, which compresses to aprox . 95° due to water refraction, once the light enters the water column, you may want to hang the fixture higher than the typical 6"-8" recommended for more standard tank depths back to front. I would suggest trying 9"-10". I hang mine at about 5" over an aprox 24" deep (horizontal) tank with excellent results, but I plan on raising it to 6". Adjusting the height is pretty simple, so I would just experiment. My tank has a rock formation in the middle lengthwise, which does tend to shade the outer extremities, but, with a water depth of 70+cm/29" to the bottom, I have no problem keeping LPS on the sand.
In general, I think the Illumina 1500/260 would be enough light and it is capable of taking additional modules in the future, as required. The 1800 will be the exact length. If you want tons of light, go for it.
This will look spectacular!
jamie,
thank you for your explanation.
I usually keep high light corals and rising fixure would be concern for me since now i am using 400w Radiums and i really love this bulb and using it for years
)
so, this would be really big move for me)) since this fixure is expensive i dont really wanna make a wrong move) You know)
mike
thank you for your explanation.
I usually keep high light corals and rising fixure would be concern for me since now i am using 400w Radiums and i really love this bulb and using it for years
) so, this would be really big move for me
)) since this fixure is expensive i dont really wanna make a wrong move) You know)mike
Kolognekoral
New member
Mike,
I don't think output will be an issue with the 260. I run my whites at mainly 50%-60% for a deeper tank than yours. More would burn my corals at this point. I changed over from 2x 250W and had to be careful. What I found is that the blues make a real difference. Most of the white spectrum is for the viewer.
I know what you mean about the investment. For me, it was a leap of faith, but I am much more than pleased. LEDs are the future, available now, and Vertex simply has the best program. I feel very confident, for a change. Amazing control, with room for advancements, I've reduced my electricity bill by 50% (we pay 5 to 6 x more than most US providers, about USD 0.35 Kh) and literally no extra heat transfer! Looks good, too. Dropping my E-bill by almost €100 per month was reason enough for me. I've paid for the fixture in less than two years. of course, keeping my corals alive and well was always the priority, which is why many delay with the change-over, but in retrospect, the Illumina came along at precisely the right moment for me. Just love it.
I don't think output will be an issue with the 260. I run my whites at mainly 50%-60% for a deeper tank than yours. More would burn my corals at this point. I changed over from 2x 250W and had to be careful. What I found is that the blues make a real difference. Most of the white spectrum is for the viewer.
I know what you mean about the investment. For me, it was a leap of faith, but I am much more than pleased. LEDs are the future, available now, and Vertex simply has the best program. I feel very confident, for a change. Amazing control, with room for advancements, I've reduced my electricity bill by 50% (we pay 5 to 6 x more than most US providers, about USD 0.35 Kh) and literally no extra heat transfer! Looks good, too. Dropping my E-bill by almost €100 per month was reason enough for me. I've paid for the fixture in less than two years. of course, keeping my corals alive and well was always the priority, which is why many delay with the change-over, but in retrospect, the Illumina came along at precisely the right moment for me. Just love it.
jamie,
thank you again for your input. my last question would be integration with Profilux.
Since my tank controlled by Profilux would be possable to controll Illumina with 1-10v output? maybe they working on some module integration with Profilux . Profilux known as great worlwide product and i think iwould be big plus for Illimina to be integrated .
unless its already in progress
Mike
thank you again for your input. my last question would be integration with Profilux.
Since my tank controlled by Profilux would be possable to controll Illumina with 1-10v output? maybe they working on some module integration with Profilux . Profilux known as great worlwide product and i think iwould be big plus for Illimina to be integrated .
unless its already in progress
Mike
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