Vodka - how does it work

jda

Dogmatic Dinosaur
I understand what it does, but how does it do it? I am just curious.

I am wondering about adding it to my FOWLR. I have heard reports of corals bleaching/lightening and stuff, so there is no risk of that.

Also, what happens if you quit dosing it? Do things jump back up, or just slowly start to climb.

I tried to search, but you know how that goes. Does anybody have any bookmarked links or anything?
 
It is fuel for bacteria. They eat nitrates and phophates quicker, and multiply quicker helping to reduce unwanted levels of nitrates and phophates. This bacterial bloom, though, will take up most of the oxygen in a tank if not dosed properly. Also, once they use up all the available food, they die and then your skimmer goes nuts taking them out. That's pretty much it. Simple sugars and ethynol is what gives the bacteria fuel. Dosing is usually about 1ml for every 100 liters
 
Rich, perhaps... but I have never seen any equations on how much sugar to add. ...so, vodka with proven amounts and calculations seems the safest for an idiot like me.

...so the carbon source creates new bacteria that grow and then die the nutrient is exported via the skimmer in the form of dead bacteria?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6840088#post6840088 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jda
...so the carbon source creates new bacteria that grow and then die the nutrient is exported via the skimmer in the form of dead bacteria?

The thought is [as far as I understand]:

1 - You have nutrient problem, both Nitrate and Phosphate in excess.

2 - You add vodka, a source of carbon - which would [hypothetically] be a limiting factor in bacterial growth.
Addition of carbon allows more bacteria to grow than before [bloom] - and given bacteria contain C, N, + P ... nitrogen and phosphate are contained in new bacteria

3 - Strong skimming removes some of this bacteria, ending in a net loss of N + P from the aquarium [through bacteria biomass export]

---
As stated before, when this bacteria bloom happens - beyond uptaking N + P, it consumes a lot of oxygen. This could be a big problem if at night, if CO2 levels in the aquarium are already high, or with a high bioload. Would likely be more dangerous to larger fish than others ...

Also, people have had problems [it would seem] if N + P are not present and they dose. While problematic and potential algae-fuel in an aquaria - all living things contain N + P and if the availability would truly reach `zero' in an aquariaum - things will start dying.

There's a couple good old threads - and with a method like this is would strongly encourage you to read all you can, follow directions as stated, and be conservative. It is most definitely possible to kill your tank this way - as it does also seem to be do-able without slightest problem.
Given it's very difficult to test what's going on with bacteria in our aquarium - play it safe, research before trying anything ... and take any changes slow.
 
So is the bacteria a temporary housing ground for the N + P or is it permanant removal?

If you quit dosing suddenly, could the newly formed bacteria cause a ammonia spike?
 
Well, if you remove the bacteria - it would be permanent :D

No idea on starting/stopping dosing ... I'm just relating my understanding of `how it works'. I'll try to dig up that thread on vodka dosing later.
 
heh... when i first opened this thread i was thinking "well, you drink it and it gets you drunk retard!" :D , good to see I was wrong...
 
I am with you on the removal part, but the bacteria would have to become free floating and make it to the skimmer for that to work... I guess. Otherwise they would enter the N cycle themselves.

I think that I am going to slowly try it on the FOWLR. NO3 are about 5 or so and the PO4 is barely blue on salifert, so I do have some excess. No coral in there either.
 
I started to dose last night. 300G total volume isbout 1100L/100L*.1ML = 1.1ML. ...so I rounded down to 1ML just to be safe. NO3 was between 5 and 10 on salifert, but closer to 10. PO4 was not too blue, but not clear either (the salifert kit is hard to read for me)... so about .03 or so.

I don't imagine that this type of deal is any substitute for water changes, skimming or growing macro... but I wanted to try it.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6840088#post6840088 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jda
...so the carbon source creates new bacteria that grow and then die the nutrient is exported via the skimmer in the form of dead bacteria?

No, it does not create a new bacteria source. It fuels your current denitrifying bacteria to use more food and to multiply. When this bacteria uses Nitrates it releases Nitrogen Gas. I'm not 100% sure what exactly happens to the Phosphate, but if you skim out the dead bacteria then it won't matter. As of your last post, you said that you started dosing. BE VERY CAREFUL! I would even under do it. When I dosed with regular cane sugar (which is a complex sugar, not a simple sugar but it can break down into a carbon source) I slightly over did it and about lost quite a few soft corals and noticed recession in most of my LPS. I had a huge skimmer for a 29g tankand I still don't think it was enough to skim out the dead bacteria or provide enough oxygen. I highly recommend dosing half the said amount every couple of days to a week, increase every possible way for skimmer production, add many airstones, and possibly have the venturi (if you have one) intake for your skimmer to draw air in from outdoors. It's better to be safe than sorry. Also, if you have any glass tops or anything that would seal the aquarium up, I would suggest removing them for the remainder of the dosing.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6846495#post6846495 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jda
I don't imagine that this type of deal is any substitute for water changes, skimming or growing macro... but I wanted to try it.

It definitely doesn't beat a water change, and if it doesn't get skimmed out, the dead bacteria go through the nitrogen cycle. But giving the bacteria a carbon source is similar to growing macroalgae. For example, if your macroalgae dies, it goes through the nitrogen cycle as well.
 
I don't have any coral in this tank that I care about. Just a few hitchhiker mushrooms, some GSP and a few SPS frags from ORA stuff that I keep in the tank for a quick litmus. My reef is pretty solid, and I am not going to touch it.

My only risk is starving the fish of oxygen... which I don't want to do.

I have an ASM G5. I just ordered another Sen 9000 NW pump for a dual recirc on it. I have an eheim to feed it. I figure that should be sufficient for my tank with 2xSen9000 NW pumps. Heck, it pulled all kinds of junk before when it just ran normally, this should be even better.
 
Okay, that's not so bad then. For some reason I thought this was going to be on a reef tank. You should be fine then. Let us know a day by day account at how things look.
 
" a tea spoon of sugar helps the medicine go dooowwwnn, the medicine go dooowwwnn, the medicine go DOOwwwnnn"

I'm just jumping on, but I'd go the sugar route instead of vodka.

I like Captain morgan though, thats got lots of sugar in it... too bad it has coloring and flavoring, huh?
 
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