Volcano club

[Mr James]

by Energy
Now he ovesizes the necks coming off the riser cone as well. This keeps the bubbles from contacting a hard surface and popping which re-releases the proteins back into the wate column. With a wider neck the bubbles join together and keep the proteins in suspension until they can be dumped into the collection cup. You would be surprised at how big a difference this little known fact can make.

I wonder if I could get new parts from the cone up to the cup?!? I sent a note to Spazz and hopefully when he has time, he can comment.

No offense taken BTW. I knew this skimmer was a prototype and may need some tweaking. I have used stock production skimmer much too long and need to get my feet wet trying new things. I have a CNC shop at my disposal as well as design software...bout time I use it.

 

[saleencobra]

Energy-the wet neck is not hooked up yet,still not sure if I want to use it,it kinda has mixed reviews. i will take the other skimmer offline,it is not doing much anyway.Where should the water level be in the neck after i clean, I think I might have it too high trying to get skimmate out of it. Feeding affects it a little but it comes back quickly.I feed pellet,flake,mysis and large shrimp. On a second note I have a phosphate and silicate problem, do you think this skimmer will help? I plan on getting some larger reactors and switcjing to pelletized FE as the granular is getting cloged way too fast.

 

[Mr James]

Any ideas on what size of feed pump to use??

 

[Energy]

MR James. I would contact Mt Fatwork and see what she used. If your going to go through all the trouble to mod it I think you would be better off trading it in and buying a new one.

SaleenCobra- First I would take the other one offline as this will improve your Volcano's performance. Second the water level should be midway up the neck otherwise you'll just get tea colored skimmate. I don't have a wetneck and have been thinking about adding one on. The difference with a high performance skimmer is it will gather massive amounts of gunk inside the neck. This needs to be cleaned out frequently. A wetneck will not allow this to happen. I don't know if that is good or bad.

Phosphate- I run two reactors for phospahte removal so unless you dose sugar,vodka,everclear or vinegar for a carbon source you will need to do something. On a side note I had a friend of mine do a high sensitivity nitrate test on my system and the readings came up zero.
The Volcano pretty much takes everything out of the water. My chaeto in the refugium has also been pretty much shut down. But that is why you buy a skimmer like that, to keep the water clean.

 

[wizsmaster]

Well .. Today was a sad day ... I'm out of the club.

I met up with the new owner of my baby 'cano skimmer and handed the 'baby' off. He's semi local to me, about 2 hours drive - so i can always go & see it. This was a last minute decision ... didn't come easy as the volcano is built well. Very well. Scott is great to deal with, when you can get a hold of him. He's incredibly busy, and backlogged. While he's been slow to get me some parts at times due to his backlog - he has NEVER let me down with not getting me parts. His skimmers are first class - and I will surely miss mine.


I've been itching to get my hands on a Reeflo 250 PRO for a while, actually ever since they were released. And on thursday the now owner of my baby stopped by my house with the reeflo 250 PRO - brand spanking new for me to look at & try out. The rest is history.

I'm pretty sure I'll be another customer of scotts sometime in the NEAR future if I can afford it - provided this economy will ever turn around ....


OK .. i'm going to cry myself to bed now.

 

[JCTewks]

LMAO...the volcano is a MUCH better skimmer than the reeflo. I'm not really sure why you would want to make that change

 

[hahnmeister]

The bubble density in the ReefFlo is higher though... this may play a key role (citing the EU made 'high effieciency' skimmers here) as long as turbulence is managed. I have always felt that an 18" diameter body could handle two darts, FWIW.

 

[wizsmaster]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12936374#post12936374 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JCTewks
LMAO...the volcano is a MUCH better skimmer than the reeflo. I'm not really sure why you would want to make that change

Jeff,

Do you currently have a modern version Volcano? Do you have first hand experience with any of the 3 skimmers in question?

I really don't recall ever saying that the volcano is a bad skimmer, or that the reeflo is/was better than the volcano. So I'm not quiet sure what you base your comment off.

 

[NuReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12936851#post12936851 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
The bubble density in the ReefFlo is higher though... this may play a key role (citing the EU made 'high effieciency' skimmers here) as long as turbulence is managed. I have always felt that an 18" diameter body could handle two darts, FWIW.

For an 18 inched body...would a hammerhead be a better match than two darts?

 

[Mr James]

by wizsmaster
I really don't recall ever saying that the volcano is a bad skimmer, or that the reeflo is/was better than the volcano.

I am trading my BM200 for my early version of the Volcano. And down the road, I may trade for another skimmer to try it out too. So JCTewks, I would agree that unless you have tried any of these skimmers, how would you really know??

 

[hahnmeister]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12937690#post12937690 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NuReef
For an 18 inched body...would a hammerhead be a better match than two darts?

I dont know about the hammerhead's water flow (Ive seen the darts and the Volcanos in person though)... it could easily be too much for th Volcano... think it might need more like a 24" body. I know what dual darts would be like though. Another option would be to use the volute from a hammerhead on the dart motor. I know someone who is trying to make this mod, and it should be promising... using the larger volute and inlet/outlet will boost the air intake, but not cost you tons of more wattage... it should help keep the dart motor running closer to spec as well.

 

[spazz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12936851#post12936851 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
I have always felt that an 18" diameter body could handle two darts, FWIW.

The only thing I can say about this is it has already been tried and it produces very bad results. An 18" body can’t handle that much air. The turbulences are too violent for that much air. The other negative affect is the reduced buoyancy of large particles. It’s the same principal that they have been studying in the Bermuda triangle. The higher the air to water ratio in the ocean the less buoyant an item will be. If you add air to the water under a boat it will sink after. This is a proven fact. So, larger particles in a skimmer become less buoyant when the air to water ratio is too high. This is where the 13% air to water ratio comes into play. Bubbles don’t attach to large particles in the water like detritus. They some what float. But if you lower there buoyancy in the water they sink like a rock. There is a guy in West Virginia that did some research on this and he found out that the higher air volumes to a skimmer increased the detritus levels in his sump.
So putting 2 darts on a skimmer is not going to increase the performance of the skimmer. The laws of physics just wont allow it.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12938575#post12938575 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
Another option would be to use the volute from a hammerhead on the dart motor. I know someone who is trying to make this mod, and it should be promising... using the larger volute and inlet/outlet will boost the air intake, but not cost you tons of more wattage... it should help keep the dart motor running closer to spec as well.

This statement makes no sense, and is a false statement. The inlets on the hammerhead are not any bigger than the dart. The dart is 1.5" on the output and 2" on the input. The hammerhead has 1.5" on both the input and output. So there is no way that will benefit anything. Also the output of the hammerhead is alot more restrictive inside. it cant be milled out to increase the flow like the dart can be.
Second the hammerhead needle wheel won’t fit in the dart motor. Neither will the votive assembly. its 2 completely different bolt patterns and the shaft on the dart is much shorter and smaller in diameter. The dart motor can not handle the larger hammerhead wheel either. i have a hammerhead needle wheel from sequence. it is a very good needle wheel pump. it also runs 250 watts. Now there is no way that just by lowering the RPM's using the dart motor that you can reduce the wattage draw and increase the air output. its just physically not possible.

 

[hahnmeister]

-How do you calculate that your Voncanoes have a 13% air/water ratio then, and at what points in the skimmer does this apply? It seems to me that most get the best results when the air to water ratio is much higher than what I see in the Volcanoes... I can reference ATB's, ATI's, BK's, and KZ's on this. Besides, at one point or another, you are going to go over this 'golden rule' when you reach the neck and the water drains... does that mean than everything drains back into the body once in the neck? I have never seen that at least. In one of my skimmers with a 4.75" neck that gets about 1300lph of air going through it, small particles of carbon dust are plastered to the top of the lid, chunks of detritus, and I have seen amphipods getting stuck in this section as well (until they end up in the collection cup). I hear you on the whole 'adding too much air' part... if you add too much water, the density of the 2-phase mix drops... much like quicksand, and things drop rather than float... but I just dont see this point being approached. The skimming ability of the darts on only 12" bodies seems to be just fine... either by ReefFlo or ORCA. A Deltec has a higher bubble density.

As for swapping volutes, a 1.5" inlet/outlet is enough to go above what a dart does, but the pump needs more pressure handling. The hammerhead volute seems to have a larger in internal volume, which is perhaps the single easiest way to increase a pump's air handling capacity without needing a proportional increase in air. Its not so much the inlet/outlet, but the volume of the impeller well. The impeller from the hammerhead isnt needed though... the impeller from the dart can stay. Im not sure what the final result/solution for the dart 'enlarged volute' was... I think there was also mention of just getting a custom volute milled for the Dart with 2x the volume... perhaps the bolt pattern or other things couldnt be accomidated.

 

[JRaquatics]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12936851#post12936851 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
The bubble density in the ReefFlo is higher though... this may play a key role (citing the EU made 'high effieciency' skimmers here) as long as turbulence is managed. I have always felt that an 18" diameter body could handle two darts, FWIW.

Do you mean like this Jon? This is an old shot of the skimmer and modifications have been made to the design already. But as you can see this will have two dart and will be pulling 100+ scfh each and hold about 100gallons. I don't think there will be any problem with too much air with this one.

 

[mavgi]

when ever i did test on pump always more air create better resut/foam even if there is a very strong turbulence in the skimmer body.... IMO even turbulence not effect on the performance ,the only problem is the neck diamter that can handle this air volume..... and break in time that can changed from 15 minute to 3 hour.... but as far as the performance it will create foam and will push detritus more and better .

 

[wizsmaster]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12940858#post12940858 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JRaquatics
Do you mean like this Jon? This is an old shot of the skimmer and modifications have been made to the design already. But as you can see this will have two dart and will be pulling 100+ scfh each and hold about 100gallons. I don't think there will be any problem with too much air with this one.

I thought you & I had a word about this before .... I TOLD YOU NOT TO SHOW EVERYONE MY NEXT SKIMMER !!! :mixed:

 

[wizsmaster]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12757377#post12757377 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tom obrecht
Not really. I've been i contact with Spazz and he feels there was a mistake in the venturi that was installed. He is sending me a different one to see about more bubble production which we both feel is not where it should be. Once that is installed I will post more pictures.

Did you ever get the venturi changed out? is it working better for you now?
Were you able to get the bubble production up? Do you have an air meter to see a rough estimate of how much you're pulling?

--marco

 

[jmart55]

I am posting this on behalf of a friend of mine(not on RC.)
He has a 400 reef and a 180 fowlr on the same system. He contacted Scott and was told the 1850 should be fine(rated at 600 gal).
He did not mention the system has an additional 200 gallons between sump and fuge and that the system is very heavily stocked with large fish.
I know any volcano would perform, but I thinkhe might be better off with something larger.
What model would you guys recomend?
Thanks,
-Jason

 

[Energy]

when ever i did test on pump always more air create better resut/foam even if there is a very strong turbulence in the skimmer body.... IMO even turbulence not effect on the performance ,the only problem is the neck diamter that can handle this air volume..... and break in time that can changed from 15 minute to 3 hour.... but as far as the performance it will create foam and will push detritus more and better .

I totally disagree with this. Ideally you want a calm but very thick bubble density that gently rises to the top of the skimmer. I have added a much larger air pump on the Volcano just to test it out and see what it would do. The needlewheel handled the extra air just fine but at the top of the skimmer it created havoc and production decreased.

It seems to me that most get the best results when the air to water ratio is much higher than what I see in the Volcanoes... I can reference ATB's, ATI's, BK's, and KZ's on this.

What are you talking about? Have you seen these in person because I have and totally disagree. A good friend runs a BK and it's not better at bubble density than any Volcano I have seen. Only costs a lot more.

In one of my skimmers with a 4.75" neck that gets about 1300lph of air going through it, small particles of carbon dust are plastered to the top of the lid, chunks of detritus, and I have seen amphipods getting stuck in this section as well (until they end up in the collection cup).

My Volcano has a 10 inch neck and at times the foam has pushed the top right off the skimmer - so I can relate there. I just realized the neck of my skimmer is bigger than the Body of some of these other skimmers we are talking about.

The bubble density in the ReefFlo is higher though... this may play a key role (citing the EU made 'high effieciency' skimmers here) as long as turbulence is managed.

The skimming ability of the darts on only 12" bodies seems to be just fine... either by ReefFlo or ORCA. A Deltec has a higher bubble density.

I'm not sure what Volcano skimmer you have seen in person that didn't outproduce any of the above mentioned products. Yes they are all great skimmers that have their advantages but Bubble density is not one of them over the Volcano. I have seen and operated some of the above mentioned skimmers. That is why I now own a Volcano. There are things I like about those skimmers but all around I wouldn't trade my Volcano for any of those or an ATB or BK as well.

 

[Energy]

JMART 55 - remember this- the Volcano's are drastically underated in their general capacity in relation to other skimmers. If you look at the dimesions of the Volcano in comparison to many other skimmers about the same size they will have theirs rated at a aquarium capacity two to three times that of a Volcano. I personally think the Volcano's aquarium capacity rating could be easily bumped up by 50% and still be in line with other skimmers.
On that note the next size up would be the 1860 or 1875. Of course as the sizes increase so does the price. Any one of the those three models would probably work fine it ultimately depends on your comfort level.

My 2460 Volcano holds over 100 gallons in the main body. It stands 5 feet tall and uses a 24" diameter tube. My other skimmer before my Volcano which was custom designed and built for my tank was three feet tall with a 12" tube. It held about 12 gallons in the main body. BOTH SKIMMERS WERE RATED FOR THE SAME SIZE TANK but the volcano is way bigger(like 5 times), runs at half the power and through my own testing pulled out 8-12 times the weight in dry gunk and raw skimmate per day.