Volcano club

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13328380#post13328380 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reefaquariumnut

Maybe ask him to come visit your setup.

First editions of anything take time to work out the kinks. Stan's tank and st. Judes were like his first two huge tanks it looked like. His company is small and he is the R&D person.

you have a skimmer that has tons of potential and you need to work with scott or whoever to figure out how to make it work on your system.

You know these are all good ideas and I would be willing to do any of them. However that is difficult to do when Scott won't respond to me! The ball is in his court and HE is doing nothing to correct the problem!! Busy or not his service at this point is nonexistant! Are you not getting that?

You mentioned that the skimmer has tons of potential. Perhaps that is true however, once again that is NOT what I paid for. I did not want a proto type. Scott explained to me that his product would surpass (by a long way) over what I had at the time. Plain and simple IT FAILED in that manner. If Scott was working out issues with his skimmers he should have told me that. I don't understand why you are backing someone up who is not truthful.

It's not so much that I am angry rather just horribly disappointed that I was so strongly convinced by Scott that this product was the tool to get me where I wanted to be at. Come to find out it was a mirage.

Think I have said enough.
 
tom obrecht

I know you disappointed..... also believed that you bought skimmer that will perform well but it's not happend ....

the bad part is that you lose live stock on your amazing tank and i am pretty sure that easy modify will help the skimmer to work better then how it work right now , the mesh not expensive and you can try you don't have what to lose if it's work then you solve the problem till Spazz will do something if you don't like it you can take it off you don't need to trim the pins on the impeller you can add on them mesh and give it a quick test , also if you don't know how to do it and Hahn live near to you maybe he can help you to do this test . IMO it will be a lot better then the air pump you use and will change the skimmer performance the only thing that maybe you will need to do is to change the size of the inlet but you can test it as it is and see what happend.
 
Hi

I would like to chime in here. I ordered my Volcano back in August of 2007. Tom was very helpful in designing my skimmer for my tank (680 gallons with total of over 1000 g system). However, I did not receive my skimmer until March of this year. He did have various excuses, include not able to get 18" body for the skimmer and the dart pump not available... All these seem plausible to me. However, once I received my skimmer, I did have a difficulty time in contacting him. In fact, there was another thread regarding this issue back in April regarding his lack of support. At that time, I was the only one having customer support issue so I let it drop.

On to the Volcano, my skimmer is very well built. The best quality of all the skimmer that I have used, hands down. As far as the performance goes, I would rank it as good. Definitely, not great as I expect from a $4000 skimmer. It does take some adjustment and playing with input volume, pump opening and air injection to get to an acceptable level. I have spoke to Tom regarding the performance issue about 3 weeks ago and he said he is working on a new venturi at this time.
This is my take, I believe Tom is a stand up guy. He is doing his best trying to solve the performance issue. But, he may not have the best business sense of dealing with customers. Now with this thread he may not know how best to respond. After all, we are talking about his livelihood. I would hate to see him driven out of the business before giving him a chance to fix the problem. I believe, with the right solution this can be one of the best skimmer out there.
 
You mean Scott ,Tom is the one with the problem.Let's not get anyone confused.I wish the best to all parties involved Scott please contact this man his tank is dying and I know after speaking with you several times you are a stand up guy.So lets get this problem fixed.Tom you could try one of those new needle wheels that reef speacialty has put out.GOOD LUCK
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13331342#post13331342 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rwinfrey
You mean Scott ,Tom is the one with the problem.Let's not get anyone confused.I wish the best to all parties involved Scott please contact this man his tank is dying and I know after speaking with you several times you are a stand up guy.So lets get this problem fixed.Tom you could try one of those new needle wheels that reef speacialty has put out.GOOD LUCK

Thanks!
 
Still lurking. I would like to chime in a bit though. I wonder if Scott has seen this thread....wouldn't be surprised if he hasn't. He should know. It sounds like he's received enough calls to be tipped off, but maybe he hasn't seen it or pondered the calls enough to realize the gravity of the situation. Just a thought. He wasn't at MACNA?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13331342#post13331342 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rwinfrey
You mean Scott ,Tom is the one with the problem.Let's not get anyone confused.I wish the best to all parties involved Scott please contact this man his tank is dying and I know after speaking with you several times you are a stand up guy.So lets get this problem fixed.Tom you could try one of those new needle wheels that reef speacialty has put out.GOOD LUCK

Unfortunatlely, I called the guy at Reef Specialty the other day and while they do sell the $75 needlewheel to folks owning their skimmers, they do NOT sell to anyone else.

The guy on the phone says he gets 4-5 calls from folks asking to buy them each week and he turns them ALL down:( Not sure what kind of marketing that is, but what a waste! If you have a product that works, sell it make a profit and rake the $$$ in:rolleyes:
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13331342#post13331342 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rwinfrey
You mean Scott ,Tom is the one with the problem.Let's not get anyone confused.I wish the best to all parties involved Scott please contact this man his tank is dying and I know after speaking with you several times you are a stand up guy.So lets get this problem fixed.Tom you could try one of those new needle wheels that reef speacialty has put out.GOOD LUCK

Unfortunatlely, I called the guy at Reef Specialty the other day and while they do sell the $75 needlewheel to folks owning their skimmers, they do NOT sell to anyone else.

The guy on the phone says he gets 4-5 calls from folks asking to buy them each week and he turns them ALL down:( Not sure what kind of marketing that is, but what a waste! If you have a product that works, sell it make a profit and rake the $$$ in:rolleyes:
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13331342#post13331342 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rwinfrey
You mean Scott ,Tom is the one with the problem.Let's not get anyone confused.I wish the best to all parties involved Scott please contact this man his tank is dying and I know after speaking with you several times you are a stand up guy.So lets get this problem fixed.Tom you could try one of those new needle wheels that reef speacialty has put out.GOOD LUCK

Unfortunatlely, I called the guy at Reef Specialty the other day and while they do sell the $75 needlewheel to folks owning their skimmers, they do NOT sell to anyone else.

The guy on the phone says he gets 4-5 calls from folks asking to buy them each week and he turns them ALL down:( Not sure what kind of marketing that is, but what a waste! If you have a product that works, sell it make a profit and rake the $$$ in:rolleyes:
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13331342#post13331342 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rwinfrey
You mean Scott ,Tom is the one with the problem.Let's not get anyone confused.I wish the best to all parties involved Scott please contact this man his tank is dying and I know after speaking with you several times you are a stand up guy.So lets get this problem fixed.Tom you could try one of those new needle wheels that reef speacialty has put out.GOOD LUCK

Unfortunatlely, I called the guy at Reef Specialty the other day and while they do sell the $75 needlewheel to folks owning their skimmers, they do NOT sell to anyone else.

The guy on the phone says he gets 4-5 calls from folks asking to buy them each week and he turns them ALL down:( Not sure what kind of marketing that is, but what a waste! If you have a product that works, sell it make a profit and rake the $$$ in:rolleyes:
 
I can totally feel for Tom. Sorry man.

I think people need to put themselves in the position of the buyer. How would you feel if you dropped thousands on something that was not just below your expectations, or just plained sucked.

Unless you're in that EXACT position, you will never know.

Again, sorry for all the issues buddy.
 
You know... ATB USA and ReefGeek are both 1-man operations as well. They are both top-notch as far as service goes. Then again... they arent manufacturing either. But, I know Victor still keeps his day-job even with ATB USA, and Im sure the number of interactions/tasks that Greg @ 'geek has to do is many times higher than Aquatic Acrylics. I think Spazz is still a 'trucker by day' though as well... so that is alot to handle. I think my point is that a 'one man operation' isnt an excuse, as there are others out there like Tunze USA... but in this case (correct me if Im wrong), Spazz has a day job, and this... which is not just distribution/sales/CS, but also running a factory-machine shop. So its really like a '1/3 man operation' to be more accurate...lol. I would say at the very least, he should still be able to have an automated response system for emails on his site... to let you know the message got through, and then maybe with that response, a 'newsletter' style update on what Spazz is doing. If Spazz is out of town on work or vacation, an automated response could say that, as well as an estimated time of call-back. If its an emergency, perhaps a phone number could be included, or some way of maintaining contact. There are several ways that even one person can communicate with hundreds of people, esp in this day & age. Even a little group email saying 'im busy until Sept 18th' or something is all it takes.

OTOH, I have been pondering what recourse those who have bought a Volcano and arent satisfied really have. There are no specs listed on the aquatic acrylics site... so you dont have a very tangible expectation to hold anyone too. If specs were listed that said 3000lph or something, and only 1500lph was the case, then you would have a 'defect'... a claim that the mfg made that wasnt held up. Much of the perception here has been based on those who get the skimmers and report good results... (usually the force fed ones it seems) as in, the specifications were never nailed down or given except on a case-by-case basis, and I dont know that a contract was ever made for any customers. The best some of you might be able to do is bring up some verbal agreements... like 'oh, yeah, this skimmer (as it was before the Alita) will for sure outperform your deltec 902'... which was what Spazz said to Tom and later this was found to be untrue. So how do you prove that Spazz has not held up his end of the bargain? Lets be honest here... sometimes people dont like a skimmer simply because of other reasons... maybe noise, maybe construction, etc... and makers of custom skimmers cant just take them back every time without a good enough reason. I would suggest that potential customers get a contract for what they are getting... specs, performance, etc... at the very least. And beyond that, pay with a credit card.

As for getting results, I dont think anyone here is in a position to 'force results' from Spazz... the best result/resolution is that Spazz simply starts contacting people and/or accepting returns, or else word of mouth may kill his future business. I think thats whats most shocking here... that such a huge mistake/discovery would get little to no attention from Spazz.

On the Aquatic Acrylics site: "Scott does top notch work for a great price. He is great to deal with, and a perfectionist to the core, you will not be dissapointed. He would not sell you anything he would not run on his own tank."

... could that be misleading enough to constitute fraud? I dont know. Its hard to see where this case falls in legal terms.

Contacting consumer protection, the BB, or other authorities in the state... well... I dont see that doing much. I dont think simply contacting those agencies can force a response... only a judge can do that. Then again, some states like MN and WI have return policies as law, so who knows. Still, I think in most cases, since these things are under $7500, the only legal option is to go through the 'small claims court' of Minnesota, or as they call it:'Conciliation Court':
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/consumerism/small_mn.html

One thing to double check might be your receipts as well (or check numbers) and see if sales tax was paid... that may not give you the results you desired, but it is something to consider with small setups that sometimes dont cross their 'T's and dot their 'i's. If you dont have a receipt at least... then things might be hairy. All you did was 'send a guy money'... it could have been for spiritual advice or a donation for some cause...lol.

Im good friends with a federal judge (scotch drinking buddies) so I know and hear how these things go down sometimes... sometimes the small door (like tax evasion) is the best way to open the big door (class action lawsuit).
 
Hahnmeister,

Wow. Very thought through and well versed. You bring up like 12 good points. I can respect a guy who can collect his thoughts, make valid points, and vebalize it in a non-biased manner. Thanks for the input.
 
Just to put things in perspective...


Here is a pic of my friend's tank that runs the 6ft Volcano. He has a large fish load, great growth, and outstanding coloration. He has been nothing but happy with the skimmer. He upgraded from a Deltec 902, and the results with the Volcano were vastly superior.

display_imagephp.jpg




On the other hand. I have the 4ft Volcano, and I feel like it could use a lot more air. So I spent $140 to get an Alita 40. I have no doubts that with this minor addition I will have results equal to my friend with the above tank.



That being said, the support side of Spazz's business is severely lacking. It took 24 weeks for me to get my skimmer, even though I was told 4-6. I had long periods of time when I couldn't get a hold of Spazz. In the end I got a product that didn't work out of the box. However, having seen what these things are capable of, I don't think that I could have gotten a skimmer that was better for the price. Of course, if the skimmer breaks and I can't get a hold of Spazz for a fix, then I would have been better off with something else.



Brad
 
Well, I still think Spazz has let people down, so from the 'free-market' standpoint, he may not be selling many Volcanoes in the future... or maybe, he figures he will anyways despite this flaw. I saw the monster RK2's at the Shedd that were more than 3' in diameter and about 10' tall, and those were only pulling about 100scfh. The aquarists there said that they didnt like them, they sucked, etc... but you can bet large commercial and public aquariums will keep buying RK2's... many simply dont have a better standard to go by with a skimmer. So from that aspect, Spazz might just not be bothering since he figures he can 'still do better than an RK2' and keep getting business that way... not alot of commercial size skimmers being made out there, and the ones that are go for $$$$ even when they suck. Commercial skimmer customer's usually aren't as 'fickle'... they usually dont know any better.

And Spazz has built one of the best skimmers from the fabrication standpoint. That acrylic, the air welds, thickness of acrylic, etc... you cant complain there. The real problem was the design/pump/specs.... but how can one hold him to specs that dont really exist? I wonder... Im not giving advice on this one so much as wanting to see what turns up and develops from this. I think Tom was wronged, dont get me wrong, and he could make a real case in small claims court based on the verbal conversations he had with Spazz perhaps... but even that... how do you prove it? I think Spazz's initial reaction to Tom's performance complaints might be a detail to look a as well... it shows that Spazz knew there was a problem and was working on a solution... one that never came. If he had sat on it and done nothing (deny deny deny)... then it would be harder for Tom to prove his case. And how do you prove that 'more or less air is what determines performance in a skimmer' to a judge? I think Tom's best argument might be that Spazz said the Volcano would actually draw more air than the Deltec 902, or did he just say 'outperform' or 'is better than'? That and that Spazz did accept that there was a problem by sending Tom additional parts. Were performance specs ever included or advertised? I dont know the details of these things, but there may be some loopholes here. What does it really mean when you say you make the 'best skimmer on the market'??? Best smelling? Best performing? Best construction? Best serviced? Most reliable?

There may be some laws regarding this that apply that I have not thought of... who knows. Maybe there is a mandatory 60 day return policy on certain goods in the state of MN or something. Maybe there were some specs mentioned/listed somewhere that I dont know, or contracts/receipts sent... or perhaps claims made in conversation or email that stated specs. Things to look for, you know? My advice would be for those who have been wronged to gather as much evidence as possible... if you were emailed specs that were later found false... dig it up. A post on a website, a conversation, etc... those things are all important. For instance, when ATB was contacted by KZ and told to stop selling cone skimmers in the US or KZ would be sued... luckily I told Anton/Vic to call their bluff and ask for a patent number (which was never provided)... but lets say there was a patent. In one of the Zeovit forum threads, Thomas Pohl states that 'Anton and I are good buddies, ATB is small Austrian company, not a concern' when I asked about the KZ patent affecting ATB (prior to ATB's being in the US, and ATB's kicking the crap out of KZ's in sales and performance). That one little post, in a public forum, etc... is likely all that ATB would ever need to show a judge to have a lawsuit against them by KZ dismissed. So my posts here are to aid those looking for resulution here by giving them their 'most likely rundown' of what might happen. I dont want to hint at 'class action' type stuff, but those who feel they have been wronged need to organize and exchange details. Perhaps one person has a quote from Spazz in an email that would really help another. In Tom's 'new tank' thread, I mentioned a 'Volcano support group', which is really not a joke when you think about it... similar clubs/groups form when other products have the mfg support dry up for something they have bought. At the very least, sending information and coordinating efforts could reveal details that have so far been overlooked.

At the very least though, those are all just legal aspects... It would seem to me that Spazz would want to respond to something like this ASAP... to address the problem, resolve it, etc... for 'good business' and to prevent 'viral information' from killing his sales. His lack of support/response in itself might be enough for any judge to side with Tom. Im sure it will prevent some future sales at the least. Now that MRC and other companies have dart based needlewheels out there that look good, AND have much better customer support... well... perhaps its a market Spazz is looking to get out of anyways.

Maybe the fact that Spazz provides a misleading amount of attention to a new customer, yet less to those who have problems later would be enough for a Judge. In Tom's case, the fact that Spazz was working on a solution and acknowledged a performance problem as well as sending parts will help. Spazz had agreed to support his product at the beginning would be more important than the specs of the skimmer itself... when a judge hears 'He took my money and talked to me every week' at the start but then 'After it wasnt what I was promised, I couldnt get a hold of him'... well... bad business in itself might be enough for a Judge to rule on.
 
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