Weird maroon clown death

[Foundry]

If nothing else, this is a cautionary tail of how bad things happen fast. I have a 40gal cube.

Input on causation and next course of action is appreciated. I don't really expect anyone to have an answer for me, sharing the story really...This is my first disaster of this kind so I guess its my 'coming of age' reefer experience.

Over the weekend I finished the new sump and got everything working and balanced. Water added was salinity and temperature matched prior to filling the system. I'm using RODI and SeaChem vibrant sea salt, water is mixed in a clean rubbermaid (used only for this) and circulated using an old PW and heater. I've used this system now since moving to a new house in July without issue.

Everyone seemed happy until 5 hours later, my clowns started to go almost comatose, having trouble staying put and just getting tumbled around in the flow. They were dying and I had no idea why, it was like they were drugged.

I killed the sump, turned back on the old filter and did a water change, in the morning they were alive but still struggling. Did another partial water change, went to work and upon my return they were alive but in worse condition. On their side, fins flapping and breathing hard.

I did another 25% water change and within an hour or so unfortunately they both expired. I've had the poor fella's for nearly 2 years and they went from tiny little 0.5" nothings to 1.5" sand moving fish.

Had a few whelk snails die off but the YWM Goby, FileFish and Lawnmower Blenny seem unaffected. The sea hare is a bit sluggish and receded but seems okay. Shrimps, crabs and coral also seem to be unaffected.

Param's all look okay now, unfortunately I dont have a sample of the 'bad' water to test.

The sump is an older tank of mine, no contaminates that Im aware of. The sump baffles are all laser cut acrylic (cut and handled myself) and secured with aqueon silicone. Return pump is a band new aqueon quite flow model and the flex hose is all new from my LFS. The sump sat for 5 days prior to seeing water, I was confident that the silicone and crazy glue was all cured (glue used to secure some egg-crate).

My current plan is to continue water changes over the next few days to flush any contaminants. Drain the sump and investigate.
Currently the old filtration system (HOB) is still running w/ new carbon.

Idea's:

-Toxic contamination introduced by something in the sump

-Turned off old filter (bio media hung in sump) but in doing so was ineffective and caused a spike.

-I ran the return pump dry whilst tuning the input/output valves and introduced significant micro bubbles into the tank. However I don't see this being a problem.

-Royal Gramma that went missing a few days ago was stuck in rock work and finally died throwing param's off very fast (looked can't find it, lots of blind caves in rock work it could have gotten jammed in)

-Gramma died a little while ago and added flow of the return blew its remains around the tank causing a spike.

-Clowns rubbed against a fairly large apitasia that I didn't notice inside a particular cave the fish often swam through and got stung badly.

-I'm treating for ich using Metroplex for 30 days recommended by trusted reef buddy. Maybe something went wrong? (effected fish, goby was previously in a Qtank w/ copper meds' and monitored for 30 days)

-I used lepage 100% glue to secure the outside of the flex tube to into the 3/4in bulkhead of the HOB overflow. The glue is not actually touching water and was given 5 days to cure. Could this have bled?

-I used Krylon Fusion (supposedly reef safe) to paint two sump baffles black. These were given two weeks indoors to cure. This introduced toxins to the DT.

 

[Shamous113]

-I used lepage 100% glue to secure the outside of the flex tube to into the 3/4in bulkhead of the HOB overflow. The glue is not actually touching water and was given 5 days to cure. Could this have bled?

-I used Krylon Fusion (supposedly reef safe) to paint two sump baffles black. These were given two weeks indoors to cure. This introduced toxins to the DT.

These two items scream problems. in the lepage 100% glue technical data sheet it states the following

-Not for use on polyethylene (PE), polypropylene (PP) and polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE)/Teflon® plastics, metal-to-metal
(one surface should be porous) or rubber

- Not suitable for applications with prolonged water immersion

-Not suitable for use in aquariums or potable water systems

Regarding the paint I've never head of it being safe for submerged use applications and it may be possible that it did/is leached something in to the water. most people use it for painting the back of their tanks.

 

[SAT]

I don't think you are going to get a definitive answer as there are too many variables. However, the timing strongly suggests that activating the sump was a major factor, as opposed the Gramma dying, Ich, or Aiptasia.

I don't think lack of a filter would kill fish this quickly. However, was the old media left without water flow for a while? I wonder if it spoiled.

Shamous' theory seems plausible. I also wonder... did you thoroughly wash out the sump before hooking it up? God knows what sort of contaminants could have been on the surfaces.

Other things that could cause these symptoms include low oxygen, severe temperature swings, severe pH swings, and high ammonia.

I doubt that Ich caused this, but I am wondering... are you treating Ich in your display tank with Metroplex? I know it is sold for that purpose, but the prevailing consensus on Reef Central is that (a) metronidazole is not an effective medication for Cryptocaryon and (b) there are in fact no medications which have proven to be both safe in a reef tank and effective at controlling Cryptocaryon. If the Ich appears to be controlled, is it likely the case that the survivors developed temporary immunity on their own, without much help from the medication.

 

[Foundry]

I'm now fairly certain the issue was the paint used to paint the baffles. In the near future the baffles will simply be black acrylic.
EDIT: A few members insist that the Krylon paint is safe after 2 weeks of cure time and did not cause my issue. If this post came up in your research of Krylon in reef's please be sure to allow for sufficient cure time in a dry, warm place.

I pulled the tubing and checked the glued joints. None of the glue made it into the pipe itself, it was a friction fit with a bead of glue on the outside of the fitting/host for additional security.

Nothing else in the tank has died, total crash averted.

During this time the old media was hung in the sump w/ flow. I gave it a rinse in new water then back in the filter, Im using Seachem matrix and don't think the media has spoiled.

Regarding the metroplex, the effected fish were housed in a hospital tank some time ago and treated with a copper based medication for ich for 30 days. Other fish were housed in a QT tank and monitored for 3 weeks then back in the DT. Metroplex was dosed via food at this time for 30 days.

This regime was recommended by a reefer friend of mine. I read the section on ReefCentral about Ich and saw some wisdom in his recommended approach. He ran a 190gal for a number of years with high value fish/coral etc etc.

Treatment of Metroplex

Anyway. The story is I made an error and painted baffles using paint I *thought* was inert when cured based on experience/recommendations I found on this forum. My misstep caused two unfortunate deaths.

 

[mcgyvr]

Krylon fusion is totally safe once cured and 2 weeks is plenty sufficient cure time..


The silicone "may" still have required additional cure time depending on bead thickness..

Not enough data in the glues SDS to comment on that but just because it says "not suitable for" doesn't mean it really isn't.. Its just that it hasn't been tested for that..

 

[Cheapreef]

Yeah it's not the paint IMO, have been using Krylon in my tank for over a year and half and other spray can paint way back in my first reef tank like 15 years ago. Once dry it would be fully safe, 7 days.

 

[homer1475]

I agree with the use of krylon fusion paint. My entire ATS is painted black with krylon fusion. % days cure time and I have no issues with it. I've also used to paint eggcrate, submerged acrylic, etc.

It's not the paint thats the issue here.

 

[Foundry]

Well Im still stumped.

I suppose its feasible the silicone needed more cure time there were some thick beads in there from over-flow of the tube. I hadn't expected the silicone to be so thin and instead had expected something much more viscous.

The other option is something from my laser cutter contaminated the acrylic sheet I cut everything from. Before giving it an other go over xmas I'll have to clean out the laser and soak the bed properly, it could use a cleaning anyhow.

Glad to see a few more people backing the Krylon move, that's the feedback I read when making the decision.

 

[BlueMoods]

I would suspect the silicone or glue, though I see no reason for paint inside the tank or sump. I do use Krylon to paint the OUTSIDE back and sided of my tanks in either sky blue, or black, depending on the effect I want in the final setup but, never anywhere water will be.

When I'm doing acrylic work, I laser cut, sand the edges lightly then, wash four times in RODI water to be sure all shreds, dust, etc are removed. I also make sure the acrylic is rated for potable water or for aquarium use.

 

[SAT]

I assume you used pure silicone, not "kitchen and bath" or adulterated to make it paintable. AFAIK, silicone comes in two basic flavors, releasing either acetic acid (GE Type 1) or methanol (GE Type 2) as it cures. Acetic acid is unlikely to cause problems. Methanol I'm less sure, but I would expect a toxic quantity to be pretty obvious.