I like to give the fish a few days to rebound a little before beginning Prazi treatment. It will take you that long to 100% remove Cupramine from the water anyway.
Yes
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- Thread starter JoeVandal49
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I like to give the fish a few days to rebound a little before beginning Prazi treatment. It will take you that long to 100% remove Cupramine from the water anyway.
Yes
JoeVandal49
New member
Thanks Humblefish!
JoeVandal49
New member
Does Prazi also treat brook, or is formalin the only treatment?
Where can one order formalin to keep on hand? Dr fosters doesnt seem to cary it.
Where can one order formalin to keep on hand? Dr fosters doesnt seem to cary it.
Prazi doesn't treat Brook - formalin is the best treatment to use.
Look here: http://www.amazon.com/Fish-Vet-Formalin-MS-32-oz/dp/B000O3EI2Y/ref=sr_1_4?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1402964785&sr=1-4
JoeVandal49
New member
Thanks Humblefish.
So its sounds like cupramine, prazi, and formalin are the big three to have on hand.
The sticky also mentions Metronidazole for intestinal protozoa. How likely am i to need this for treatments, and do any of the other three mentioned previously also treat for protozoa? Im not sure i would be capable of diagnosing such an issue anyways, so im trying to keep my on hand list as simple as possible, and hopefully have the ability to treat most common issues with as little variation in treatment as possible.
also with food enhancers, such as selcon, is it fine to just use one brand, such as selcon for a staple food enhancer, or is it important to varry and alternate through differnt food enhancers to provide the best suppliment to meet various fish needs?
Over the next few months i plan on setting up a dedicated fish room, and plan to setup all the various stations for treatment. Tanks for TT, a large and smaller QT tank. An invert and coral QT tank, and a large and smaller Hospital tank. I want to do things right, but also need to do them on a budget and build up my supplys over time, and keep things as simple as possible, but also as effective as possible within my constraints.
i am also in the planning stages of my large display, but for the time being it looks like i have settled on a display somewhere in the 600 gallon range.
This has been an eye opener, and i am really enjoying this hobby, and want to do the best i can within my constraints to be the most successful i possible can be within the hobby.
So its sounds like cupramine, prazi, and formalin are the big three to have on hand.
The sticky also mentions Metronidazole for intestinal protozoa. How likely am i to need this for treatments, and do any of the other three mentioned previously also treat for protozoa? Im not sure i would be capable of diagnosing such an issue anyways, so im trying to keep my on hand list as simple as possible, and hopefully have the ability to treat most common issues with as little variation in treatment as possible.
also with food enhancers, such as selcon, is it fine to just use one brand, such as selcon for a staple food enhancer, or is it important to varry and alternate through differnt food enhancers to provide the best suppliment to meet various fish needs?
Over the next few months i plan on setting up a dedicated fish room, and plan to setup all the various stations for treatment. Tanks for TT, a large and smaller QT tank. An invert and coral QT tank, and a large and smaller Hospital tank. I want to do things right, but also need to do them on a budget and build up my supplys over time, and keep things as simple as possible, but also as effective as possible within my constraints.
i am also in the planning stages of my large display, but for the time being it looks like i have settled on a display somewhere in the 600 gallon range.
This has been an eye opener, and i am really enjoying this hobby, and want to do the best i can within my constraints to be the most successful i possible can be within the hobby.
JoeVandal49
New member
Thanks Snorvich,
Im hoping to do so. This is a very new hobby for me, and something much different than any other hobby i have ever had really. The chemistry etc is all new, as well as the diversity.
It will take me some time to get on my feet with all this, but when i do ill run with it.
I would really like to keep everything permanently running, While upkeep costs may be more expensive in the way of power etc, it seems like maintenance and upkeep compared to time to setup tanks when needed etc, make the additional expenditure for keeping everything permanently running worth it. Seems like the additional expenditure makes up for the additional time and hasstle spent taking down and setting up tanks, and allows for versatility and preparedness at any time.
as far as technology on these tanks, im going to make it very simple, simple HOB mechanical filters, heater, powerhead.
I feel that a permanently running quarantine (a small one for corals (10 gallon) and a moderately sized (30 gallons) one for fish) is desirable and not all that expensive. Then two (some use three) small tanks for tank transfer, and you are good to go. Consider the cost of your "embedded base" of fish and you will realize that not doing things properly could be incredibly expensive.
JoeVandal49
New member
Thansk Snorvich, is a 30 gallon sufficient size for fish that require larger display tanks?
After my large display is setup i will definitely be branching out to tangs etc.
Also the blotches are completely gone on the tailspot blenny, and the royal gramma seems to still be fine, but blotch/discoloration is still in same spot. hasent spread, but hasnt faded either.
I ordered my meds, but due to unforeseen expenses outside of the hobby this week, i could not afford overnight shipping, just dont have the disposable income with the unforseen expenses depleting the budget (remodeling a home- always unforeseen expenses). Shipping said 5-7 days.
Am i safe to assume by the time the medication gets here, if there are no deaths, then this is likely not velvet or brook? WOuldnt it have spread the entire population in the tank by that time, and possibly have caused death in the first fish to show symptoms (royal gramma).
I have been doing a lot of reading and it seems flukes can also cause blotches on fish. Could this be flukes as well?
everyone is eating and acting normal still.
Sorry for the confusion on my end, but im simply confused.
I guess i probably need to do a FW dip to confirm flukes, but i just want to keep the fish as unstressed as possible and eating in the event that i do need to treat with cupramine.
Also if it flukes i will need to get an order placed for formalin, since i did not order it at this time. (eta meant prazi, but i am also going to get formalin)
Should i take a wait and see approach at this time?
After my large display is setup i will definitely be branching out to tangs etc.
Also the blotches are completely gone on the tailspot blenny, and the royal gramma seems to still be fine, but blotch/discoloration is still in same spot. hasent spread, but hasnt faded either.
I ordered my meds, but due to unforeseen expenses outside of the hobby this week, i could not afford overnight shipping, just dont have the disposable income with the unforseen expenses depleting the budget (remodeling a home- always unforeseen expenses). Shipping said 5-7 days.
Am i safe to assume by the time the medication gets here, if there are no deaths, then this is likely not velvet or brook? WOuldnt it have spread the entire population in the tank by that time, and possibly have caused death in the first fish to show symptoms (royal gramma).
I have been doing a lot of reading and it seems flukes can also cause blotches on fish. Could this be flukes as well?
everyone is eating and acting normal still.
Sorry for the confusion on my end, but im simply confused.
I guess i probably need to do a FW dip to confirm flukes, but i just want to keep the fish as unstressed as possible and eating in the event that i do need to treat with cupramine.
Also if it flukes i will need to get an order placed for formalin, since i did not order it at this time. (eta meant prazi, but i am also going to get formalin)
Should i take a wait and see approach at this time?
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JoeVandal49
New member
Thanks snorvich, so it sounds like if the fish is still acting normal, and all other fish are acting normal by the time medication shows up(or even at this point), i am likely dealing with something else. Either an injury, infection, or other less invasive or fast acting parasite.
Is it normal for a fish to be showing behavioral shift one week into infection of brook or velvet, or could they go through the whole cycle without developing symptoms?
I know Ich can go for periods of time without symptoms, but im unsure about brook or velvet, there is just so much conflicting info out there that i have seen on it from treatments, to life cycle, etc.
I will try freshwater dips tomorrow to test for flukes. In case of flukes, how long of a fallow period?
Is it normal for a fish to be showing behavioral shift one week into infection of brook or velvet, or could they go through the whole cycle without developing symptoms?
I know Ich can go for periods of time without symptoms, but im unsure about brook or velvet, there is just so much conflicting info out there that i have seen on it from treatments, to life cycle, etc.
I will try freshwater dips tomorrow to test for flukes. In case of flukes, how long of a fallow period?
JoeVandal49
New member
So looks like i have confirmation of flukes at the very least. pics to follow in a few minutes after i attempt to catch everyone and dip. Will be ordering prazi
How long fallow for flukes.
how often should i fw dip until prazi arrives?
Also snorvich, or humblefish, care to share your recommended treatment cycle for prazi?
How long fallow for flukes.
how often should i fw dip until prazi arrives?
Also snorvich, or humblefish, care to share your recommended treatment cycle for prazi?
I believe 4 weeks. Newsmyrna80 would know for sure.
A FW dip probably buys you a week or two. Again, Newsmyrna80 knows more about flukes than probably anyone else on this board.
I treat with Prazi, wait 5-6 days, do a 25% WC, and then treat with Prazi again. 72 hrs after the last treatment all fish should be "flukes free". Unless you are unlikely enough to encounter a Prazi resistant strain (highly unlikely). FW dipping just one of the fish before they all go back in the DT will tell you for sure.
JoeVandal49
New member
here is a photo just to confirm since i have never seen these before, just going off pics on the net.
There are a couple there on the bottom of the glass.
There are a couple there on the bottom of the glass.
I can't tell much from the pic. Are they white? Did you see any pour out of the fish (especially out of the gills)?
JoeVandal49
New member
if you look at the dark round shadows, they are the white spots above the shadows. the shadows are cast from the parasites.
I didnt see any come out of the gills and was watching for that.
About 30 seconds to 1 minute into the dip, little white opaque spots began to show on the skin/scales of the fish, and then the spots fell off. The spots were not apparent until the dip, and definitely came off, one was actually on the eye of the royal gramma. More came off the royal gramma then did off the tailspot blenny, which were the only fish i was able to catch, I believe two off the tailspot and around a half dozen of the royal gramma.
they were round, milky/opaque white, and about the size of a worn down pencil tip.
here is another shot that shows the color and shape of the parasites better, but is a bit blurry in focus.
I didnt see any come out of the gills and was watching for that.
About 30 seconds to 1 minute into the dip, little white opaque spots began to show on the skin/scales of the fish, and then the spots fell off. The spots were not apparent until the dip, and definitely came off, one was actually on the eye of the royal gramma. More came off the royal gramma then did off the tailspot blenny, which were the only fish i was able to catch, I believe two off the tailspot and around a half dozen of the royal gramma.
they were round, milky/opaque white, and about the size of a worn down pencil tip.
here is another shot that shows the color and shape of the parasites better, but is a bit blurry in focus.
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IMO & E; this is sufficient evidence to conclude your fish have flukes. All fish that shared water with the infected must be treated (with Prazipro). FWIW; Prazi is a "reef safe" med and can be used in the DT. Only bristle worms/feather dusters are usually at risk.
JoeVandal49
New member
Thanks Humblefish.
Would you recommend going ahead and treating with prazi since i have evidence and confirmation of flukes, and hope for the best in the meantime on them not being infected with something else in addition to flukes.
Originally i had planned to start copper treatment, then treat with prazi, but i think since no other symptoms seem to be prevalent or obvious, and fish are still exhibiting normal behavior i should probably treat with prazi first, and hope no other issues arise in the meantime.
im almost leaning towards treating in the 55 gallon with prazi and not tearing it down. im not too concerned about bristleworms or featherdusters at the current time.
My Clown Goby is the one fish that i know if going to be a real PITA to get into QT.
Would treating in the main display also kill off any flukes not attached to a host, that are in different life stages?
Any risks to it harming live rock or coral? Shrimp, crabs, or snails?
It would also buy me some time hopefully and allow me to setup my QT/Hospital rack properly and not feel so rushed, but i will break down the 55 if i need to in order to do the best i can for my fish.
One more thing, i was reading the directions of use for prazipro. Am i correct in assuming/understanding one dose will last 5-7 days? or do i need to add one dose daily for 5-7 days? The directions seem a bit vague and i just want to make sure i treat correctly.
You and snorvich have been a great help, and i truly do appreciate all the solid advice.
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The fish you dipped were in the DT, correct? If so, I would treat the entire DT with Prazi. Just don't OD the medication and your corals/inverts should be fine. As snorvich indicates above, do a second dose 5-7 days after the first. Do a 20-25% WC before beginning the second dose. Don't run carbon/UV while treating, and I've heard it's best not to run your protein skimmer due to excessive foaming.
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