wolfoholic
New member
I second that. Any idea how much would be required to chelate, and say a gallon of salt mix, or a cup of salt? Seems like it would take a lot to chelate all that excess?
What binds aluminum?
- Thread starter 121
- Start date
I second that. Any idea how much would be required to chelate, and say a gallon of salt mix, or a cup of salt? Seems like it would take a lot to chelate all that excess?
wolfoholic
New member
EDTA is used to bind metal ions in the practice of chelation therapy, e.g., for treating mercury and lead poisoning. It is used in a similar manner to remove excess iron from the body.
Ruth DeBusk et al. (2002). "Ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid (EDTA)". Retrieved 2007-07-25.:
EDTA is a slime dispersant, and has been found to be highly effective in reducing bacterial growth during implantation of intraocular lenses (IOLs).
http://jac.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2009/01/14/jac.dkn5
doing some reading, thinking of creating a thread specifically for the discussion of EDTA and possible positive or negative effects on reef tanks.
Ruth DeBusk et al. (2002). "Ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid (EDTA)". Retrieved 2007-07-25.:
EDTA is a slime dispersant, and has been found to be highly effective in reducing bacterial growth during implantation of intraocular lenses (IOLs).
http://jac.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2009/01/14/jac.dkn5
doing some reading, thinking of creating a thread specifically for the discussion of EDTA and possible positive or negative effects on reef tanks.
disc1
-RT * ln(k)
I will say this for the idea, if we're talking about copper then I think there are better ways. The polyfilter is probably best. That may still be the case for aluminum too, especially since there is less competition with calcium and mag.
If the question is what binds copper best in the aquarium, then there are proteins made by cyanobacteria that can bind up copper a lot better than EDTA and are far more likely to be pulled out by a protein skimmer or carbon.
That would be an interesting and cheap experiment if someone wanted it. Grow up a tank with rock and lots of cyano and a good skimmer and see if it can clear copper or how much. It may come down to the particular species of cyano. Other algae can play a role in metal reduction as well.
But if the question is does EDTA chelate copper or aluminum in seawater at equilibrium, the dissociation constants are 10 and 8 orders of magnitude higher respectively. So I think the answer will be yes to some extent even in the presence of calcium and magnesium at 3 or 4 orders of magnitude greater concentration. Whether that is of any use is doubtful.
Another thing to remember is that EDTA loses a lot of it's chelating ability as pH goes down. By pH 8.5 you're starting to get really low and those dissociation constants go down by a good amount.
Where it might help is right as the salt mix hits the water. For a brief second you have a very small volume of water that has all the salt in it before it disperses. In that small volume, there is a very high pH and a high concentration of calcium. A little EDTA for that moment may help some tiny amount in preventing precipitation. But I'm with wolfoholic that seems like it would take way more EDTA than you would want to put in your water to make any real difference.
If the question is what binds copper best in the aquarium, then there are proteins made by cyanobacteria that can bind up copper a lot better than EDTA and are far more likely to be pulled out by a protein skimmer or carbon.
That would be an interesting and cheap experiment if someone wanted it. Grow up a tank with rock and lots of cyano and a good skimmer and see if it can clear copper or how much. It may come down to the particular species of cyano. Other algae can play a role in metal reduction as well.
But if the question is does EDTA chelate copper or aluminum in seawater at equilibrium, the dissociation constants are 10 and 8 orders of magnitude higher respectively. So I think the answer will be yes to some extent even in the presence of calcium and magnesium at 3 or 4 orders of magnitude greater concentration. Whether that is of any use is doubtful.
Another thing to remember is that EDTA loses a lot of it's chelating ability as pH goes down. By pH 8.5 you're starting to get really low and those dissociation constants go down by a good amount.
Where it might help is right as the salt mix hits the water. For a brief second you have a very small volume of water that has all the salt in it before it disperses. In that small volume, there is a very high pH and a high concentration of calcium. A little EDTA for that moment may help some tiny amount in preventing precipitation. But I'm with wolfoholic that seems like it would take way more EDTA than you would want to put in your water to make any real difference.
wolfoholic
New member
What could be a valid use for edta in a tank? Could you add it to elemental iron in solution to chelate it and then add to tank as iron supplement?
Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk 2
Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk 2
disc1
-RT * ln(k)
Oh absolutely. Not elemental iron, but an iron salt that you wanted to dose. EDTA chelates ions, not neutral metals. I think they use Fe2+. I think citrate is preferred over EDTA, but it serves the same purpose of chelating the iron and holding more of it in solution.
EDTA has a huge usefulness to our hobby. It is the titrant in most calcium tests and magnesium tests.
EDTA has a huge usefulness to our hobby. It is the titrant in most calcium tests and magnesium tests.
wolfoholic
New member
Yea i knew about it being a titrant. Had no idea it was used in the water tests though! Just remember using it in biochem.. I need to figure out something to dose iron. I I can't find the recommended drug by Randy.
Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk 2
Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk 2
wolfoholic
New member
Yes yes Arizona in fact. This drug is not distributed here. Ordering online is my only option. Don't like ordering stuff online
Oh well guess I will have to this time!
Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk 2
121
Member
I used Phosguard awhile back but forgot to rinse it first. My chalice corals died back and some of my zoas closed up for weeks (some are still closed). After reading one of Randy's articles, I learnt that aluminum binds to organics, so I'm assuming aluminum gets skimmed out. I don't skim and only remove settled detritus from my sump, so that and my ATS would possibly be removing some aluminum.
I've also used Portland cement frag plugs which I now know contains aluminum too. Possibly also chromium.
Similar threads
