What did I miss (Another ick saga)

Haha, yeah, I think we are probably too much for the OP ;) Oh well, we agree to disagree on this topic. Let's not even talk about tank sizes for tangs! LOL

Of course I do not miss the weather there! Now 50 degrees is considered cold weather for me :) I love the mountains and the ocean and the scenery and the green trees year-round. What do I miss? Definitely some good micro brews there. And the first snowfall.
 
Ngood, that link seems to be not working...=\ Quinine Sulfate will be my next step if hypo doesnt work.

Mallow, the only thing Ia added was the sand and rock back in after being fallow for 10 months. I tend to agree that for how ever short the time the copper fell of level. Plain and simple the ick cant survive without a host so couldnt be the fallow tank sand.

Here's a Q, can brissel worms carry ick? That the only other thing in the fallow fallow tank I can think of that could of brought it back over.

Tank update, currently at 11ppt salinity. Doing a water change this weekend and going to shift up the sand to make sure the salinty is true every where, then will start the clock. So far everyone looks great and happy. So far no pH problems and Ammonia holding at 0, so no bio filter disruption.

Thanks
 
Update and Q

Everyone doing good so far. Trigger and lamrick angel showing ick again so will reset the timer when they fall off. About 12 days at 11ppt salinity, which leads into my Q...

I been calibrating the refractometer with RODI water to 0. I figure closer to 0 during hyposalinity treatment, but I did get some calibration fluid at 35ppt. The refracometer was lean by a couple ppt, meaning read too low.

Here the thing, if I adjust it to the 35ppt fluid, it maxes the adjustment, so I'm inclinded to think theres something wrong.

I dont want to be off with the balance so tight of sucessful treatmentr and killing the fish. This weekend, I will check my LFS for a new refractometer, but till then, or if they do have one....

Thoughts?? Shouldnt it be the same calibrated to 0 with RODI and 35ppt with fluid? Anyone else thinks its odd the refracoeter adjustment maxed with the cal fluid?

Thanks peeps
 
Ich can be eradicated because it is an obligatory parasite and does not have a very long indefinite dormancy period.

Failure to eradicate ich is due to one of the following:

Careless contamination

Indequate active treatment of fish in QT in terms of length of treatment and strength of the drug, mostly copper.

Inadequate fallow period.

The key is that eradication means to kill of or allow to die-off the very last ich organism so that there is none left. The genes for this organism is gone completely. So averages does not mean much. One has to consider the absolute extreme in genetic diversity of ich and any chance or fluke.
 
I picked up another refractometer just the double check, reads the same as the old one. Thinking I got some bad cal fluid wich sucks. I'll get a another, different cal fluid and recheck callibration. Still confussing me.

Yup, I will continue hypo and reset the counter when I see the last sign of ich drop off. I suppose I should of expected a reaccurance early on since theres only one stage the hypo can attack.

So far everyone seems to be handling the hypo well, the pH a bit loopy as expected, but buffer straightens it out and hasnt swung way outta range.

Thanks peeps
 
Day 44 Hyposalinity

Fail !!!

Hypo is a bust. Over 6 weeks of hyposalinity and all that's happened is the fish that didn't show signs, now do, I'm assuming because of the stress of the hypo. Cyno algae out of control due to the GFO and bio pellets not working in the low salinity. Tank is a frackin disaster. The puffer does look good as an upside, but that's it.

11ppt salinity confirmed by 2 refractometers and an Apex w/conductivity probe. Never got above 11.2 at any give time during the last 44 days. Therapeutic levels are 11ppt~12ppt so should of been well within range. I removed 80% of the sand to remove as many pockets of "normal Salinity" as possible. There was some seepage, but never seeped enuf to get above 11.2ppt. Every day I'd removed about 1g water, top off with fresh to get to 11ppt again.

So now I will try the Chloroquine Phosphate route. The battle continues, I'm trying to not just give up. I will slowly bring salinity back up then start treatment. Reading up on it Here and other places. I need some help with a few Qs to clarify for you all and the QP pros.

-I see dosages ranging from 40mg/g to 240mg/g, any consensus?

-Light reactive or not? I see it stated both ways.

-Not affected or absorbed by LR or sand like copper? I really don't want to get bio balls and start up a wet/dry filter if I don't have to.

Again, QT'ing really isn't an option, I have to treat the DT. I once had every one in a 58g, and they were over crowded, stressed, and the puffer is up to 7 or 8 inches now, he was much smaller. Aside for that, there no reason to move them, fallowing the tank last time (for 8 months) didn't seems to work, all the sand critters are dead now due to the hypo, so theres nothing to save.

This has been a frustrating journey. Next step Dynamite

Any insight and info on QP, and my Qs answered above, would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 
Do the spots stay in the same place for a long time?

I had to deal with a bad strain that wouldn't fall off unless I cover the tank with a blanket and close the light.

I would try the tank transfer method in combo with a blanket/no light
 
The spot do seems to be very stubborn and takings weeks to drop off. I prolly have an alien breed super ich. I will run with the lights off for a few days see if theres any improvement. Been wanting to do that anyway to kill off some of this cyno.

I'll leave the sump lights on (I grow algae in a few spot as an algae scrubber sort of) to help keep the pH from plummeting.
 
So much info, Hard to keep it all straight,,,,

So I got some 99% pure CP from Here. Their support is very helpful and responded within an hour of some queries I had.

Only light sensitive to the extent of discoloring the water, loss into LR and sand is nil, the dosage is kinda crazy, but they are confident in its success.

I'm currently dosing 400mg/10g, (8g for my 200g) then repeat everyday after a 20% WC. So far day 5 and everyone looking good. Just a few spots left between everyone. They say to stop after 5 days if no improvement is seen, but can continue for 10 days, but no more then.

I have on hand enuf for 7 treatments, I will see tomorrow before I treat a 6th time, if I should. I could almost watch the spots fall off, minutes after a fresh does. I'm really hoping this does the trick for this alien-hybread-super ich that has defied all 100% cures (cept tank swapping, didn't do that)

They didn't specify how long to leave the QP stewing before removing it, I'm thinkin 4 weeks or so.

So far no Ammonia spike, checking it daily. They did advise every bio filter is different and will have varied results Its an awesome cure for cyno and other algae, though it seems some macro green algae hangin in there. I did not have coralline, so I can't report on that.

On with the fight...
Thanks all
 
ok, Instructions said to treat 400mg/gal, repeat every 24 hours with a 20% WC, continue for 5 days and if no improvement ,stop but don't continue past 10 days total. So I take that as, if its not working to stop. Well it seemed to be working so I kept going.

Day 6 everyone seemed to take a bad turn. Tested for all the nasties, like Ammonia and nits, all 0. Tank was a little cloudy, to be expected with no carbon running and dumpin all that powered in. So I stopped dosing. Went another 3 days, but everyone kept getting worse. Everyone hiding anf not eating

I fired up the Carbon reactors and did a 30% WC. Next 2 days sucked. Lost my harlequin bass and Arceye hawkfish, and, oddly enough, the bluechin trigger lost his teeth.

couple more days and they started to recover, eating again and swimming around.

It now been a couple weeks since that, and everyone back to normal. Stupid cyno coming back too, damit, was hope that would be gone. I have the bio pellets and GFO running full tilt to try and control it and the other algae from taking hold.

The worst thing of it all, I don't think it killed off the ich. I see a few spots still on the trigger. I'll keep my fingers crossed that its something else. Its all I can do. I've done everything short of storing the fish in UV pipe to fight this stuff. At this point 1 of 2 things will happen, they will shake the remaining ich and much celibration, or die and I will stop this hobby. I wont try to find homes for them, I will try to keep this unbeatable strain of ich out of public circulation.

This must be why the three cures say "almost" 100% effective.

Copper-fail
Fallow-fail
Hyposalinity-fail
CP-fail

Anyone bringing this up in a search, good luck. I do wish you well. I would not wish my experience on anyone.

Thanks all for the help and support... I done.....
 
Badrobot,
On the positive side, I want to point out that after 10 months or so, if no new fish are added, the parasite starts to lose virulence within a closed system. Ultimately the parasite will "burn itself out" so to speak. I have read this from multiple sources on the net, and presumably it's based on research...so hang in there.
Dave
 
Humble, No sand left, about 50 lbs of rock left. Lacking any other input I was forced to rely on the CP providers advice, and they advised the absorption would be negligible. I tend to believe it since the treatment outlined by them used so much of a dose, 400mg/gal for as much as 10 days, I only did it 6 days before started to lose fish. If I did it again, I'd do 5 days/treatment, then let it cook. I started pulling it out as soon as there was trouble.

drdave, I read that too somewhere, but unhappily reporting it as a myth. Nothing new has been added to this tank for almost 2 years now.

Still holding out hope, Puffer still not showing signs, but every few days, 1 or 3 spots appear on the trigger. Salinity almost back to norm. I may try another round of the CP, stopping and holding

Last hope will be a complete tank crash, moving the remaining 5 fish to a large QT, then bleaching the tank and coppering the fish again. I really don't think the puffer would survive the tank transfer method.

On with the fight.
 
BadRobot said:
Humble, No sand left, about 50 lbs of rock left. Lacking any other input I was forced to rely on the CP providers advice, and they advised the absorption would be negligible. I tend to believe it since the treatment outlined by them used so much of a dose, 400mg/gal for as much as 10 days, I only did it 6 days before started to lose fish. If I did it again, I'd do 5 days/treatment, then let it cook. I started pulling it out as soon as there was trouble.
Click to expand...

Sounds like whoever you got your CP from gave you a defective product, with shady advice to go along with it.. A dosage of 400mg/gal, even just once, is insane! The proper dosage for 99% CP is 40mg/gal for prophylactic treatment; 80mg/gal for full blown Ich/Velvet treatment. It's a one and done medication; anyone who tells you to keep adding it on a daily basis is peddling something other than 99% CP!
 
yup, I though it a little insane too, but they made the stuff, and it is a lab, so I went with their instructions. Also, This thread here about page to started using the same stuff same dose. I will say the QP showed the most evidence of working. I don't think a lesser dose would of done any good. Like I said, if I do it again I'll stop at 5 days.
 
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