What do Euphyllias do when they split?

[iwishtofish]

My frogspawn opened up fairly quickly when a put it in the tank a few weeks or so ago...

But now it has been opening less. The bottom left head just split, and was scrunchy for a while, but not the whole coral. The bottom right head suddenly has two distinct mouths, whereas that was not quite visible recently. Picture from today:

Picture from the other day:

I guess what I'm concerned about is that the whole coral has been scrunched up for the last few days. The top head is really small, and I can't imagine it working on a split right now. Is scrunching up normal when these corals split a head?

My torch has been scrunchy for the past few days, as well, although not typically as much as in this recent photo. Clearly it is expanding, as well:

I still have a lot to learn. This is a little 15g nano tank, and although I should test, I don't - I just do daily (usually) very small water changes, and have had pretty good success with that. Input appreciated!

 

[NewbyReefer]

I'd say first test the water. Its hard to tell you what action or direction to take if we don't know the basic water quality. It could be anything without knowing the water quality first.

 

[iwishtofish]

I'd say first test the water. Its hard to tell you what action or direction to take if we don't know the basic water quality. It could be anything without knowing the water quality first.

Yes, I really should set up for that...I think I should check nitrates first, since the system is so small with no skimmer.

Still wondering, though, if this might be typical behavior in some cases, regardless of any more negative possibilities.

 

[wenwillwego]

My hammerhead frag has never had more than just overnight/lights off "scrunchiness," but it has also not split, so I really don't have any useful input... I just wanted to say thanks for posting pictures of yours splitting and the one with the two mouths, neat to see!

FWIW, you can always take a jar of your water to to your LFS and have them test it. From what I have read here people don't ever want to hazard guesses of what is going on without knowing your parameters.

 

[NewbyReefer]

Still wondering, though, if this might be typical behavior in some cases, regardless of any more negative possibilities.

As far as heads splitting, IME it just looks like a oversized head for a while until they start growing seperate skeletons. Another way is new heads branch off from lower on the stock. But seeing as its both your Euphyllias I would say that the retracted behavior is due to water conditions vs splitting.

 

[NewbyReefer]

I wouldn't be surprized if the head on the left had 2 mouths on it and was in the middle of splitting.

 

[iwishtofish]

My hammerhead frag has never had more than just overnight/lights off "scrunchiness," but it has also not split, so I really don't have any useful input... I just wanted to say thanks for posting pictures of yours splitting and the one with the two mouths, neat to see!

FWIW, you can always take a jar of your water to to your LFS and have them test it. From what I have read here people don't ever want to hazard guesses of what is going on without knowing your parameters.

I know for sure you are right about a general unwillingness to give opinions without parameters - I don't blame anyone for that! I'll get out the test kits soon. I have a pretty light load considering the amount of water I swap using Reef Crystals, but I know demand can quickly outpace supply if corals start growing! Thank you, btw, and glad you liked the pictures!

As far as heads splitting, IME it just looks like a oversized head for a while until they start growing seperate skeletons. Another way is new heads branch off from lower on the stock. But seeing as its both your Euphyllias I would say that the retracted behavior is due to water conditions vs splitting.

Yes, afraid of that. I'll check the dates on my critical test kits, although I think the nitrate kit is < 1 yr.

I wouldn't be surprized if the head on the left had 2 mouths on it and was in the middle of splitting.

I think you are right! Can you pick out the 2nd mouth?

 

[coralsnaked]

First of all Id say that as your LPS grow they can put a fairly high load on your 15 gal nano especially if you see a growth in coraline as well. And Reef Crystals which is what i beleive you said you were using only mix to about 350 ppm Ca when mixed to 1.025 salinity. thats pretty low. Alk measures about 3.65 which is a little better than most. But at 20% total water changes per month you are only replenishing foundation elements at 20% per month. And LPS are stonies which vcan require higher levels of Ca to start. If they are only consuming 20% per month that would still run you down to 280 ppm before replenishing. At best their growth will be slowed. You need to test and suppliment to get your foundation up to par if you want long term success in LPS keeping. Thay are not that unforgiving, bnut LPS are notorius for doing well until they crash and burn totally. Sometimes when they are i'll they really do not show it until they are doomed. But with that said they do retract prior to a growth spurt.

Merry Skerry

Merry Skerry

 

[iwishtofish]

First of all Id say that as your LPS grow they can put a fairly high load on your 15 gal nano especially if you see a growth in coraline as well. And Reef Crystals which is what i beleive you said you were using only mix to about 350 ppm Ca when mixed to 1.025 salinity. thats pretty low. Alk measures about 3.65 which is a little better than most. But at 20% total water changes per month you are only replenishing foundation elements at 20% per month. And LPS are stonies which vcan require higher levels of Ca to start. If they are only consuming 20% per month that would still run you down to 280 ppm before replenishing. At best their growth will be slowed. You need to test and suppliment to get your foundation up to par if you want long term success in LPS keeping. Thay are not that unforgiving, bnut LPS are notorius for doing well until they crash and burn totally. Sometimes when they are i'll they really do not show it until they are doomed. But with that said they do retract prior to a growth spurt.

Merry Skerry

Merry Skerry

Yeah, I guess I overstocked a bit then. I wanted this to be a care-free temporary tank that would survive off of 50% water changes before upgrading to a bigger tank. I do mix to 1.026, but that doesn't really make that much difference. I do have other stony corals and a 5" maxima clam, so I'll def use some alk/ca. I'll try to test within the next couple of days and see where I ended up. Thanks!

 

[sponger0]

These corals are not happy. So its either something to do with water parameters or flow.

 

[iwishtofish]

These corals are not happy. So its either something to do with water parameters or flow.

A lot of corals are retracted, so I'm getting ready to test now. This is the first this has happened in the 6 mos or so the tank has been set up. My palys are scrunching now and then, and my duncan isn't as extended as much as usual.

I do have some small patches of dinos, too. I'm also wondering if my T5 bulbs along the back of the tank has transitioned to worthless. They are cheap bulbs, and I'm estimating have about 8 mos of use. I've been using carbon regularly, so unusual toxins may not be the cause.

Well, readings for Ca, Alk, nitrates coming. Can't guarantee accuracy, but hopefully we'll be close.

 

[iwishtofish]

Finally did a few water tests.

Nitrate (API) = 0

Calcium (API) = 23/24 drops, 460/480. I'm skeptical of this. I bought the kit in March of 2011.

Alk (API) = 6 dKH

I'm starting to noticed dinos on some of the corals. I really don't know how much irritation it takes for them to close up...no dinos on the euphyllia, though.

 

[iwishtofish]

While doing a small water change tonight, I noticed the tissue skirting the skeleton at each head looks very dark in color. I remember this happening to an elegance coral I had in another tank, before it expired.

 

[iwishtofish]

I think the problem may be the dinos...although they aren't very visible on the euphyllia. It could just be that they are heard to see, as is illustrated by this macro shot of my unhappy GSP:

Here they are on the tip of my blue-polyp monti:

My duncan that won't open any more:

Zoas:

On the clam (luckily not causing it to close):

Palys

Things are a mess!

 

[Michigan Mike]

Dude your ALK is low. Add a tspoon of some baked baking soda over the course of the day in RO/DI top up water or salt water, or if you get part B.
Get the ALK up to 9-11* dkh and try to keep it there.
Do you use a calibrated refractometer?
What lights do you have over what size -15g tank?

 

[iwishtofish]

Dude your ALK is low. Add a tspoon of some baked baking soda over the course of the day in RO/DI top up water or salt water, or if you get part B.
Get the ALK up to 9-11* dkh and try to keep it there.
Do you use a calibrated refractometer?
What lights do you have over what size -15g tank?

Yeah, I need to raise the alk. I have a two-bulb T5 fixture over the backside and two PAR38 leds over the front. 15 gal. Refractometer is calibrated.

 

[JHawlz9989]

That's exactly how my frogspawn started to split. Sometimes they can just scrunch up for a day or two, and then carry on as if nothing happened.

However, I notice that when everything is generally unhappy, it's a pretty good sign that my salinity is off. And if you're doing water changes every day, it sounds like an easy way to lose track of your salinity.

Josh

 

[mayjong]

+1 on the salinity. frogspawn can be sensative to this...

 

[iwishtofish]

I'll check the refractometer again. I've been pretty observant of salinity lately, though. Thanks for the heads up on that!

 

[iwishtofish]

Ok, where to start...got home and checked the refractometer calibration using PinPoint 35ppt solution, and it was right on.

I stuck the turkey baster in the tank (as I've done a hundred times) to suck the dino off of the galaxia...

...and my clown flips out and slams repeatedly into the bottom corner of the tank. The devil emerges from the sixline wrasse, and as it hovers in threat display next to the clown, it bites it once or twice. I then have to chase the sixline away a few times. I turned all lights off (except in the room) and let the clown recover.

A short while later, I notice the torch coral, and have to turn the T5s back on briefly for a photo:

Getting pretty disheartened now.