What Exactly is Old Tank Syndrome ?

[outy]

Bottom line... If you take good care of your system and prevent waste and nutrients from accumulating, old tank syndrome in a properly designed and well appointed system should be a non issue. In fact, based on my experience, it should be the opposite. A well cared for and properly designed and maintained system is like a fine wine. It will only get better with age.

That is not always possible.


Sometimes growth prevents that.


None of our systems should be static. They are all dynamic to different degrees requiring different amounts of work involved.

What may be LARS to you may not be for me.


I think a BB tank gives one a better ability to keep clean long term then a DSB, with a trade off helping to keep water quality a little better.



I think this whole argument comes down to typical life span of a DSB, and can you extend it beyond the typical 5 years before it needs addressing.

 

[CStrickland]

Sometimes growth prevents that.

I can only get to 10% because of growth.

Growth of what?

 

[outy]

Growth of what?

I would hope your coral is outgrowing your tank

 

[CStrickland]

I would hope your coral is outgrowing your tank

oh I see, I thought you meant something was growing in the sand bed that led to OTS.

Do you not prune your coral to allow you to maintain the tank, but rather just plan for a tear down every few years?

 

[outy]

oh I see, I thought you meant something was growing in the sand bed that led to OTS.

Do you not prune your coral to allow you to maintain the tank, but rather just plan for a tear down every few years?

My 100 G outgrew it after 10-15 years.

Now my 215 is outgrown in 6 ish years

Its time to rebuild.

 

[laga77]

How exactly do you vacuum sand?

Look into a Python cleaner. A large plastic tube connected to a simple vacuum at your faucet through a vinyl tube. I am a big fan of these. Plunge tube into the sand and the water will stir up things and suck out dirt while leaving heavier sand and gravel. You then pinch tube and let sand settle, then move to next spot. It does take a little practice, but it is worth the effort. Just do not do a whole tank at once if it is dirty because you can stir things up a bit too much.

 

[PolyReef]

Not sure what you are talking about. What is bioelectricity?

Just another proof it does exist .....
http://www.scienceworldreport.com/a...auses-rapid-growth-coccolithophores-ocean.htm

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/bioelectric-code/#

 

[outy]

old tanks usually have plenty of bacteria. What they may not have is a good balance of elements, imho, ie, some too much, some just out of equilibrium. And probably the introduction of a number of subsurface sand-cleaners couldn't hurt.

That is a great point.


Every time my substrate is over 5 years, it is always clumped inti a rock where I cannot get to it.

So in the tank I showed, after 6 years, 90% of the DSB is rock on the top 1/2" -1"

 

[CStrickland]

Sorry gentlemen but you guys looking in the wrong subject
... Answer is very simple is about depleting bio electricity a.k.a. blueprint .
when you're looking very closely how everything works in nature and how nature can rejuvenate himself after big crashes question is how nature do it ....
Reef aquariums are only a very small bio system and will never be similar like oceans ...
Water changes that will help a little bit but only to deplete use chemicals ..
Unfortunately Bio system like bacteria's and another small creature cannot involve without nature bioelectricity ... Is all about nature stupid .....

First, some of us are ladies and none of us are stupid.

Just another proof it does exist .....
http://www.scienceworldreport.com/a...auses-rapid-growth-coccolithophores-ocean.htm
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/bioelectric-code/#

Did you maybe grab the wrong article for your first link? It doesn't say anything about bioelectricity.

I'm not following your argument. I don't see what ion-pumps and potential gradients have to do with dsb. It's common knowledge that electric potentials play a role in cell function, development, and regeneration. I'm missing what role you think it plays in a sandbed.

 

[PolyReef]

Sorry but I don't understand your statement
I just sharing my own research in the subject .Of course we can argue...
I strongly believe your knowledge in this field is probably based on Google and unfortunately will be very hard for me to explain to you the whole process ....
For those in this field of science is very easy to understand where I'm coming from ....

 

[CStrickland]

You have proposed that "depleting bio electricity" is the "answer" to old tank syndrome.
When asked to support this contention you linked to a pair of popular science magazine articles. One of those is completely irrelevant, and the other merely explains bioelectricity's relation to cell function without reference to this depletion you rely on.

Making an unsupported contention and responding to requests for clarification with some nonsense about how you could explain it but I'm too stupid to understand is unbecoming and transparent. For someone who claims to be in the sciences, you seem to have a weak grasp on basic methods of proof. I would love to read your "research," in which journals are you published?

 

[PolyReef]

Your statement just prove you don't know anything about the subject ......
All aspects of nature are connected together ......they have the same beginning and the same end... The only reason they are existing is the reason I mentioned before .....
Hopefully this will explain to you what I'm talking about...
Good luck to you with your new hobby...

 

[KafudaFish]

Your statement just prove you don't know anything about the subject ......
All aspects of nature are connected together ......they have the same beginning and the same end... The only reason they are existing is the reason I mentioned before .....
Hopefully this will explain to you what I'm talking about...
Good luck to you with your new hobby...

So take the opportunity to explain your points instead of tip toeing around the subject and insulting people.

 

[PolyReef]

So take the opportunity to explain your points instead of tip toeing around the subject and insulting people.

I believe I was very polite . I only answer to the person who ask me a question not the person who attacked me directly ..... Answers are very well explain in those two links I did post in this conversation ....
Just another example why so many people with great experience in this hobby doesn't bother to help anybody here

 

[Dan_P]

Just another proof it does exist .....
http://www.scienceworldreport.com/a...auses-rapid-growth-coccolithophores-ocean.htm

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/bioelectric-code/#

Thank you for the references. Yes, I have heard about this before only the exciting part is it's apparent role in the developing organism. Everytime I read up on what is new in developmental biology, I am stunned. Just read a couple books on epigenetics. WOW!

The connection to keeping reef aquariums escapes me though. What were you thinking the connection is?

 

[CStrickland]

Everytime I read up on what is new in developmental biology, I am stunned. Just read a couple books on epigenetics. WOW!

Word. I'm using some of the epigenetics stuff in my current work (intersection of race and socio-economic status as a predictor for health and upward mobility). It's cray.
lol maybe the trauma of capture in the wild tripped an allele in our fish and that's why they get ich so much

 

[PolyReef]

Reef aquariums are Close system .... Is good possibility because lack of proper amount of chemicals which is are in bigger amount in natural ocean can cause very small amount of so call it blueprint of life.....by changing water,adding chemicals we can helps a little bit ...
Many scientists try very hard to understand how this blueprint is built ....
From my research I did discover several different ways how you can replenish the blueprint ...The most common way and least expensive is basic water changes using seawater....
This technique is nothing new......seawater has also much bigger amount of different Bacteria
This also can explain why some of the bacteria cannot exist in our reef aquariums ...
Beginning a life in our planet is one of the biggest non-answer question till now ....

 

[PolyReef]

Word. I'm using some of the epigenetics stuff in my current work (intersection of race and socio-economic status as a predictor for health and upward mobility). It's cray.
lol maybe the trauma of capture in the wild tripped an allele in our fish and that's why they get ich so much

.........::

 

[CStrickland]

.........::

It's a joke. I could explain it to you but I strongly believe your knowledge in comedy is probably based on Google and unfortunately will be very hard for me to explain to you the whole process of genetics....
For those in this field of science is very easy to understand where I'm coming from

It is extra funny because explaining cryptocaryon vulnerability as a trait variation subject to environmental factor triggered allele switching is about as plausible as bioelectric depletion of a reef tank.
lol

Here is a link to the paper that basically got everyone excited about epigenetics if you wish to research further, I assume you are credentialed to access the full text.
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/308/5727/1466.abstract

 

[PolyReef]

The biggest joke is probably your experience in this hobby ......
Judging from your post in previous months when you started this hobby
Just finish this stupid conversation let me add I working on the project for over seven years and I was able to develop very interesting technology not only harvest this subject but also to use in the few different industries......keep reading and stop this shallow conversation.Posts: 2,638....not bad for the rookie.......
One more subject you try explain to me genetics and you don't even know how the carbon works very funny .....