What is really NEEDED

[Ricky1066]

Hello I am new as you can guess after readig this I have done research and I have gotten so many different answers I am really confused. I have watched videos and read books. Now I need som eexpert advice from here again.

I have a 75 gallon tank I took the advice from here and I bought73 pounds of live rock It is in looks really nice all kinds of things moving on al lof them.

I have the fluval 405 filter and 60 lbs of live sand a heater thermoter my salt water test kit and a fluval 4 plus filter not currently being used.

Now to the questions.

I have been told I might need ,it would be a good idea, but, you don't really have to have, or you can get it as time goes on. to the following

Sump tank
protein skimmer.
power heads ?
cleaners
ro/di
really strong lighting( ihave basic 4 foot flurocent

Now to get to the idea I am looking for a basic colorful tank I guess you can go ahead and call it the NEMO tank.

Do I need to get all this stuff now? Or do I really need it at all ?I know it helps but as the store guys say. Salt water tanks have been around for years without this stuff. THEY are great but you don't need them or you can buy alittle at a time.

I want a nice healthy tank but cannot afford another thousand dolars now on that stuff.

As far as cleaners I have been told Shrimp.starfish,crabs.hermit crabs.and a few other names I cannnot remember.

I know i am new but I have gotten good advice on here My pet store Adventure aquarium is a good store great salesman But their job is to sell me stuff .

Can I get a few straight answers On what I need right now how long can O go without the other stuff or do I really need it.
and after my saltwater tests are good I was told 7-10 days I can get cleaners what would be good and how long after that.


Also I have been testing the water it is good Do I need to do water changes now or wait till it is cycled? how will I know?

Sorry for all the questions .

 

[dileggi]

Sump tank - I would say nice, but not a necessity. Meaning, you can certainly do without. Not everyone has a sump.

Protein skimmer - Again nice, not a necessity up front, but eventually you will want one. My tank has been running since September. I just added my skimmer a few weeks ago.

Power Heads - that will depend on what you intend on keeping. Since you stated "nemo tank", I would assume that means fish and corals. So, I would say yes, the power heads are a must. You'll want your flow to be a minimum of 20x's your tank. Some shoot for 40x's.

Cleaners? Do you mean clean up crew? Or do you mean things to manually clean your tank? If you mean clean up crew, I would say necessity. They help keep your levels low and get rid of all the decay detrius that will build up. If you mean stuff to "clean" your tank, like glass, etc. A sponge, magnet and/or razor will do the trick for the inside. For the outside...water only, or maybe some vinegar.

Ro/di - That's tricky. You definitely do not need to have one, but you certainly don't want to use tap water. If you can buy ro/di or distilled water, then you won't need the unit. I waited before I bought mine, but again, I only have a 29g tank. Your water changes etc will be much larger, so the savings in buying an ro/di are quite obvious.

Lighting - This is very very important, depending on what you're going to keep in the tank. I would feel more comfortable with someone with more experience answering this one. But, if you mean flourescent as in "stock lid" for a tank, then that's not going to help you at all. You'll either need Pc's, MH or T5's. I have PC's on my 29g and MH on my 5g. I'm not sure what you would need on the 75g. Again, it will depend on what you're going to keep, but I don't even know the general rule fo thumb for that .

As for the cleaners, they seem to be pretty stock from you stated...snails, hermits, starfish, shrimp. That's what everyone has in one wayor another. Personally, I have some hermit crabs and snails. No stars and shrimps, so I don't have much experience with those...again...small tank here! Haha~

As for the cycle of 7-10 days...that seems quite fast. You will know when the cycle is complete when your amonia, nitrites and nitrates are reading 0. I could be wrong on the 7-10 days seeming fast, but I thought it was more like 4-6 weeks.

As for water changes, I've seen people say they do water changes during their cycle and some say they don't. Personally, I did not do any water changes until after I cycled. I don't know if this is right or wrong, just my own experience.

I hope all this helps and good luck!

 

[ledford1]

a recurring mantra here in RC is that there is no one way to run a successful tank. You'll probably set yours up, just as we all do, and realize there are certain aspect that you'd like to change as you gain experience and knowledge.

Buying equipment plays along here. You have an internal thought battle: what can I get by with vs. what's the best investment for my tank. You can buy cheap stuff along the way, but you'll often end up spending more money than you would have if had just bought the good stuff first.

Concerning filtration, I like using the LR and a good skimmer as the heart of it. I also like the addition of a fuge for nutrient export. I'm not big on cannisters as they require greater maintenance - and there's plenty of that do already.

Sumps aren't necessary, but I would want a sump on my setups if possible. You can put your equipment in there, keeping eyesores out of the display tank. You can add extra LR. In-sump skimmers in general are better than HOB skimmers.

Talking skimmers, I'd say they aren't necessary, but I really like having one, as do most people. There are some here who have good experiences in skimmerless setups, and I think they are often experienced aquarists who know how to work around that and set up a functioning system. There are so many skimmers out there, it's often tough to pick one, but be sure to get a good one.

Powerheads are good and you need some water movement and to oxygenate the water. How many and how big the powerheads all depends on what you want to keep in the tank.

A magnet and scraper are great for cleaning the tank yourself, For a cleanup crew, again you can debate what's best. I like shrimp and snails.

RO/DI is another good investment, but not exactly a necessity. You can buy water from the LFS and lug it back home in buckets, or you can plop down an investment upfront and save money in the long run with clean water right in your home.

Light all depends on what you want to keep. If it's fish only, a single flourescent tube may do it. For some corals, PC may work fine. You may need T6 or MH for some thing you want to keep though. Again, knowing what you want the end result to be can save you money. If you want high-light corals, you'd might as well get the lighting needed for them now, rather than buy a couple of lighting systems along the way. Of course, I'm talking about ideal situations (AKA having the money).

Seven to 10 days after the cycle would be fine IMO, and you could even start adding the day after, but there is a risk analysis that you have to consider.

You have a lot of questions, and more will come up as you go. Hope you enjoy your swim at RC and enjoy all the different ideas and perspectives.

 

[demonsp]

Its all about control,and the amount you have. You already sound confused so jumoing in is wrong. You need proper amount of LS and LR then a skimmer and powerheads for flow.The lighting needs depends on coral wanted.But its best to get the best you can afford. You need to get the basics in order and then you will have time to research the rest,4 to 8 weeks. This could be a great low problem hobby or a neverending problem. There is a method and if done right will create an outstanding reef tank.Or rush and ignore and waste time and money with newbie problems.

 

[ACBlinky]

What I consider essential:
- tank & stand
- live rock
- powerheads/filter for current (aim for 15-35x turnover)
- lighting (your single tube is fine for FOWLR, you need much more for a reef)
- salt
- refractometer or hydrometer
- heater
- thermometer
- razor blades
- magnet cleaner (it's worth the $10 or so, honestly, you really do need one)
- Prime or AmQuel dechlorinator (others may overactivate your skimmer or contain ingredients that aren't needed - these two are the best IMO, and economical because they're very concentrated)

Very nice to have:
- skimmer (oxygenates the water, takes out organics)
- RO system (essential for some, depends on your tap water)
- a sump/refugium
- drilled tank (much more attractive and no risk of losing the siphon as with an overflow box)
- loads of light (I prefer MH with T5 actinics, everyone has a favourite)
- auto topoff system (keeps the tank more stable, saves you headaches and work)
- powerbars with timers for lights (keeps things more stable - marine animals like a regular routine)
- a quarantine setup - this borders on essential. QTs can be done very cheaply, and can save you a world of headaches. A large Rubbermaid bin, a turtle-tank filter (Fluval 3, for example), a heater and some pieces of PVC tubing/elbows are really all you need. It's a good idea to cover it with eggcrate to allow air and light in, while preventing fish from jumping out. You can also use a cheap Wal-Mart 10g or 20g setup for your QT; it's a little harder on the pocketbook, but you have the advantage of a much more attractive QT

Nice, but not a requirement by any means:
- reactors (Ca, PO4 etc)
- digital pH monitor, thermometer
- all the top of the line goodies, bells and whistles

You have a lot of what you need already. I'd say concentrate the budget on lighting for now, if you want a reef -- it's the food source for your corals and other photosynthetic critters, and depending on what you want to keep, it may represent a significant investment. Buy the maximum you think you'll need - it cost me more than necessary for my lighting because I bought PC, then added another PC fixture, and finally realized what I really wanted/needed was a good MH fixture. I would have saved a lot if I'd gone straight to MH!

Don't forget, this is about fun. It can be stressful setting up -- your tank will never cost you more than it does right at the start, because there are some pretty significant purchases you need to make right away. Once you're done buying the lighting and other equipment which, hopefully, will last you a LONG time, it's all downhill. You'll still be buying things -- a $25 fish here, a $10 frag there -- but not all at once.

 

[george81]

Re: What is really NEEDED

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11618642#post11618642 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ricky1066
Hello I am new as you can guess after readig this I have done research and I have gotten so many different answers I am really confused. I have watched videos and read books. Now I need som eexpert advice from here again.

I have a 75 gallon tank I took the advice from here and I bought73 pounds of live rock It is in looks really nice all kinds of things moving on al lof them.

I have the fluval 405 filter and 60 lbs of live sand a heater thermoter my salt water test kit and a fluval 4 plus filter not currently being used.

Now to the questions.

I have been told I might need ,it would be a good idea, but, you don't really have to have, or you can get it as time goes on. to the following

Sump tank
protein skimmer.
power heads ?
cleaners
ro/di
really strong lighting( ihave basic 4 foot flurocent

Now to get to the idea I am looking for a basic colorful tank I guess you can go ahead and call it the NEMO tank.

Do I need to get all this stuff now? Or do I really need it at all ?I know it helps but as the store guys say. Salt water tanks have been around for years without this stuff. THEY are great but you don't need them or you can buy alittle at a time.

I want a nice healthy tank but cannot afford another thousand dolars now on that stuff.

As far as cleaners I have been told Shrimp.starfish,crabs.hermit crabs.and a few other names I cannnot remember.

I know i am new but I have gotten good advice on here My pet store Adventure aquarium is a good store great salesman But their job is to sell me stuff .

Can I get a few straight answers On what I need right now how long can O go without the other stuff or do I really need it.
and after my saltwater tests are good I was told 7-10 days I can get cleaners what would be good and how long after that.


Also I have been testing the water it is good Do I need to do water changes now or wait till it is cycled? how will I know?

Sorry for all the questions .

ditch the fluval canister filters they are not for salt water...they are nitrate factories and need daily maintenance...they are more of a pain then a benifit.

RO/DI - IS AN ABSOLUTE MUST...if you use tap water you are going to have cyno, algae issues...all the crap from the tap water will soak up into the rocks and sand bed....chlorine burns fish gills...you will never keep sps coral....

Protein SKimmer...for a tank you re size its a must...its the backbone of filtration...anyone who tells you that you can run without one really doesnt know what they are talking about. This is one peice of equipment that shouldnt be cheaped out on. would you like to be breathing in polluted air all the time?

Powerheads - you need atleast 20X flow in you re tank to keep detritus suspended to which will be exported by you re skimmer.

just like demonsp said...get the basics down...you obviously have not read enough...you dont have enough live rock or live sand to help with denitrify you re tank. you need atleast 1.5-2lbs of porous live rock.

 

[jrod11]

I would suggest the sump and the protein skimmer. I bought all of my stuff up front. Tank, sump, skimmer, etc. I think it helped me a lot to set a firm foundation and has been less problematic for a new person to reefkeeping like myself. you can get RO water from your local fish store which is what i did until i could save up for my RO/DI unit. The RO water at your local fish store can be very expensive. My RO/DI unit paid itself off in only a couple of months and was a great investment. Good luck!

 

[george81]

yep...a sump and refugium is probably the best thing i ever added to my tank..it allowed me to get a better protien skimmer, opened up the display...have a real good mechanical filtration system...added flow, made running the tank much easier...the best thing i ever added

 

[ACBlinky]

Re: Re: What is really NEEDED

Re: Re: What is really NEEDED

I want to address some of the things George said...

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11619386#post11619386 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by george81
ditch the fluval canister filters they are not for salt water...they are nitrate factories and need daily maintenance...they are more of a pain then a benifit.

I disagree. Biological media is the nitrate factory, not the canister itself. I run an empty canister filter on my QT, just for circulation, and that's no different than having a small sump. A canister filled with LR runs like a 'dark fuge', filling with sponges and feather dusters that filter detritus from the water. A canister can also be beneficial for running carbon or phosphate resins. Nothing wrong with canisters, as long as they're used correctly.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11619386#post11619386 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by george81

RO/DI - IS AN ABSOLUTE MUST...if you use tap water you are going to have cyno, algae issues...all the crap from the tap water will soak up into the rocks and sand bed....chlorine burns fish gills...you will never keep sps coral....

it depends on the tap water. Some of us use tap water very successfully -- it's generally not the best idea, but it's also not the end of the world (providing your tap water is of decent quality). As for chlorine, that's what Prime is for.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11619386#post11619386 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by george81
Protein SKimmer...for a tank you re size its a must...its the backbone of filtration...anyone who tells you that you can run without one really doesnt know what they are talking about. This is one peice of equipment that shouldnt be cheaped out on. would you like to be breathing in polluted air all the time?

I do know what I'm talking about, and so do many other people, and yes you CAN run without a skimmer. Skimmers add a measure of protection, but people were keeping marine animals long before skimmers were invented. Some of the most successful tanks are skimmerless.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11619386#post11619386 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by george81
Powerheads - you need atleast 20X flow in you re tank to keep detritus suspended to which will be exported by you re skimmer.

and this could be provided, at least in part, by his canister filter.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11619386#post11619386 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by george81
just like demonsp said...get the basics down...you obviously have not read enough...you dont have enough live rock or live sand to help with denitrify you re tank. you need atleast 1.5-2lbs of porous live rock.

I think you're being very harsh here. 1lb/g is fine, sand is not a necessity -- many tanks run bare bottom, or with a very shallow sand bed (like mine) that's purely for looks. Saying to a new member 'you obviously haven't read enough' is a bit gruff, take it easy on the guy!

 

[rick12]

--this is the newby thread and all questions are welcome (no such thing as a dumb question)

welcome to reef central

 

[Ricky1066]

Thanks ac Because I was alittle upset onthat not reading I have read alot. BUt Just like this post there are many different answers.

I was told that the fcanisiter was a top filter to use now I hear o I just paid $200 cannot bring it back.

I was also told 1 Lb of rock per gallon is ok that is why I spent $1100 on rock all at once 73 pounds

I understand the movement but why would my fluval 4 plus which has high blower be ok? It wil also double as a second filter.I just thought the power would blow the fish away ( just to clarify the blower should blow over the rocks correct?)

I dont think I will get a sump tank But will eventually get a skimmer but just not now.
My water is NY water So it is ok I guess but eventually will get a ro

the lighting I see is important so I will probably go and get that asap.any one has a recomendation?

Thank you everyone for your help it has proven very useful

 

[phenom5]

Thanks ac Because I was alittle upset onthat not reading I have read alot. BUt Just like this post there are many different answers.

One thing that you'll find in this hobby is that there are very few absolutes. There are always going to be several different answers, and often, two answers will be exactly opposite of one another.

I was told that the fcanisiter was a top filter to use now I hear o I just paid $200 cannot bring it back.

Not a complete waste. I personally wouldn't run the filter meadia in it, but you can use it to run filter floss to polish your water, and/ or carbon.

I was also told 1 Lb of rock per gallon is ok that is why I spent $1100 on rock all at once 73 pounds

:eek1: :eek1:

Wow, if you spent $1100 on ~75lbs of LR, you need to find a new LFS. That's roughly 2-3x what you should have paid for it. Sorry .

I understand the movement but why would my fluval 4 plus which has high blower be ok? It wil also double as a second filter.I just thought the power would blow the fish away ( just to clarify the blower should blow over the rocks correct?)

I would add a couple of powerheads. As blinky said, shoot for 15-30x turnover per hour.

the lighting I see is important so I will probably go and get that asap.any one has a recomendation?

Personally, I always recommend metal halide. There expensive, but worth it IMO.

 

[seapug]

If you really want to strip it down to the absolute bare necessities, all you need is 6 things.

1. tank
2. stand
3. saltwater (and a way to do water changes and topoffs)
4. live rock
5. Strong light
6. Some way to circulate water.

This is all that was used in the earliest successful reef aquariums-- The Leng Sy "Natural System" from the 60's. Everyone thought he was crazy but his secret was he understood the importance of live rock and how it benefits the nitrogen cycle and biological filtration. He also had something that we all could use more of-- PATIENCE.

Everything else are gadgets that are helpful in extending the range of corals you can keep and fish & invertebrates you can stock.

 

[Ricky1066]

Ok Now I am alittle mad That is alot for rocks when I thought it was a deal I have petland by me which I try to avoid then I have to drive to LI to buy rocks at http://www.aquariumadventure.com/

That is the only store worth going to I am aware of What is a lr price I should be looking for They charged me $12.99 pound club discount price was 9,99 I was not a member yet.
They also have a light they told me to buy Doub;e 4 foot flurocent 159 without the bulbs

 

[Onte]

You should be able to find LR from $5-7 per pound. I know my local store carries Fiji, for example, at $6/pound but discounts it when you purchase over 5 or 10 lbs.

It sounds like your local store is kind of.....well, find a new store, imo.

 

[Ricky1066]

oK cansomeone calrify on the canisters I have it I am going ot use it I have it running with with it cam with the sponges the carbon and the white roll thing s (not sure what they are called ) should i not be usiing al that stuff? if not waht do I replace it with.

I also keep hearing to start putting food in my rock tank WHAT

I see petco is having a sale so I will go there No cleaners right now ? even though my tank is been zero for 6 days on readings?

I also think that the fluval 4 plus is a good source of water movement should I put the carbon in also or just the sponges and should I face it so the top of the ater moves or lower it down to the rocks

 

[dileggi]

The LFS that I use, seem to sell the LR from 5-8 per pound as well depending on the type, i.e. fiji, tonga etc.

 

[Ricky1066]

Well I guess that was one I Got me .Well live andlearn I paid $9.99 a pound which looked about right from checking It is white tocks lots of holes and crevises

 

[dileggi]

I wouldn't worry about it, it's done and you have the rock. You'll know for next time.

What I started doing was checking prices online and then checking them out in the store. Petsolutions seems pretty reasonable and I had overpaid for a bunch of things that I found online much cheaper. Like you said, live and learn! I'm sure everyone here has been there at some point.

 

[MSU Fan]

Ricky, you can absolutely use your canister filter. If I were you, I would not put any sponges or so-called biomedia into it though. I would put some live rock rubble if I had some, and then some type of chemical media (carbon, purigen, biochem zorb, phosphate sponge, etc) in there as well. You will need to go in monthly and change the media out. Of course, you can run it empty just for the flow too

If I am understanding correctly, the "food in the rock tank" idea is to get your cycle started. As the food decays, the bacteria that are necessary to sustain your tank will grow. The nitrogen cycle is very important to understand, so if what I have said is something you weren't aware of, you should check out this link which is a portal to wealth of information.

As for the type of food, you can put regular fish food in the tank, or go to your grocery store and get a frozen raw shrimp and put it in the tank. The cycle typically takes a couple of weeks, so don't put anything else in the tank (that's alive) during that time.

Check out that link, there is an unbelievable amount of info in there. Good luck, and keep asking questions. HTH