What is the Difference between Zoa and Paly
- Thread starter mdodso00
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Scopus Tang
New member
An answer easily found by typing zoa vs. paly into the search engine of this forum.
The true difference between palys and zoas is much harder to distinguish. It is in the coenenchyme (or mat tissue); palythoa (protopalys included) take up sand and other small particles to build their structure (particularly noticable in the "stem" of the polyp or course texture of the oral disc). Zoanthids (such as those pictured above) do not.
Polyp, colony form, and oral disc shape and color are all highly variable between members of these two genera.
If you have a question as to which you have, take a picture of the of the polyp. If it shows the sand grains like this out of focus shot of a Palythoa grandis, it is a paly not a zoa.
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/... n Zoas/Nov 2010/Palythoagrandis16Nov2010.jpg
HTH
The true difference between palys and zoas is much harder to distinguish. It is in the coenenchyme (or mat tissue); palythoa (protopalys included) take up sand and other small particles to build their structure (particularly noticable in the "stem" of the polyp or course texture of the oral disc). Zoanthids (such as those pictured above) do not.
Polyp, colony form, and oral disc shape and color are all highly variable between members of these two genera.
If you have a question as to which you have, take a picture of the of the polyp. If it shows the sand grains like this out of focus shot of a Palythoa grandis, it is a paly not a zoa.
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/... n Zoas/Nov 2010/Palythoagrandis16Nov2010.jpg
HTH
You wont get an answer much better than that scopus hit the nail right on the head. You will get to the point where you can just glance at one and tell don't worry. But beware collecting these is highly addictive! I mean really addictive, I used to use tobacco and this is harder to quit then that!
zooty
Fish Warden
Hopefully you are testing your Strontium and Mag levels when dosing. Like all corals they are controlled by a number of elements and compounds and simply dosing without tracking the levels is not a good idea. I have always seen Mag dosed along with Ca and ALK and if you are dosing those 2 things and have regular water changes, you shouldn't need to dose Mag
mdodso00
New member
Well its the suppliment from Kent.
bobbychullo
Super Abound
it doesn't matter what brand of supplement you are using...
test test test
every tank is different. if you do not test and the levels fluctuate too much (or go too high or low) it can be detrimental to your tank and its inhabitants.
calcium, magnesium and alkalinity are the 3 main things you should test for regularly...
i test 1 to 2 times per week. i like to know exactly where my params are at.
you could probably get away testing once a month if you really know your tank but the only way to know your tank is to test consistently...
A. Grandis
Active member
I would like to see a scientific explanation for those particular observations.
Not that I'm thinking that they are not the truth, but just to have a clear idea and a serious view on it.
The internet says what it wants.
Grandis.
Scopus Tang
New member
Hhhhmmm A. Grandis, not sure what you're looking for here. While both Borneman and Sprung disagree as to proper divisions within family Zoanthidae, both agree that the palys take up sand into their body wall.
From The Reef Aquarium Vol.2 by Delbeek and Sprung on page 298;
"Genus Protopalythoa . . . the body column is sand encrusted"
From Aquarium Corals by Borneman
"Not only do Palythoa species bind and incorporate sediments, but they are also capable of rudimentary aragonite crystal formation in a type of light-induced biological mineralization (Haywick and Mueller, 1997)."
That work for you, or are you looking for something more like Haywick and Muellers original research?
aquaph8
Love The Fish
That depends on the salt mix. If your salt mix has low levels of Mag, you can dose Ca and Alk all day long and never get to where you want to be. I agree though testing would tell you if this was the case.
A. Grandis
Active member
Well, I basically would like to see anything that would show us that the presence of substrate in the body IS the difference between them. I mean, something that would proof that Zoanthus spp. don't (or can't) have the substrate present in their bodies, as a definitive proof.
I've seen Zoanthus spp. with some sand particles in their bodies. I've seen Protopalythoa spp. with sand only, out of their bodies, attached to them.
IMO we can't place them in their categories only by the presence (or not) of substrate.
That's what I mean.
Just my .02
the808state
New member
Most wild Palythoas and Protopalythoas will have substrate embedded within their tissue. I have seen it many times. The only time i have not seen this is when the palys are grown in tank. I currently have a bunch of Protopalythoas that do not have substrate embedded in thier tissue only because they have been growing in my tank for years.
I have never seen a zoanthid with sand embedded in the tissue. And i've been doing this for over 14 years.
There is HUGE misrepresentation on Zoas going on lately. Especially with "People Eaters". They are probably one of the easiest to identify, but yet there are retailers calling their polyps PE when they are clearly not. On top of that calling them palys also.
People Eaters are Zoanthids! lol
I've also found in my travels, zoanthids do not "slime" like SPS, LPS, and Palythoas do. This slime is not limited to Protopalythoas either. There is a current morph being circulated called "Pink & Gold Zoas". (Google it) They slime as much (if not more) than most protopalythoas i have handled.
While i'm on this subject. Be careful handling palys that slime. This slime is created by the palythoas and is more than likely palytoxin. Zoanthid quirts are mostly water taken in like an anemone and not something they produce. Although i've received a pretty mean bacterial infection produced by a spittin' PE. Damn thing got me straight in the eye.
I'm no scientist... Just my .02
I have never seen a zoanthid with sand embedded in the tissue. And i've been doing this for over 14 years.
There is HUGE misrepresentation on Zoas going on lately. Especially with "People Eaters". They are probably one of the easiest to identify, but yet there are retailers calling their polyps PE when they are clearly not. On top of that calling them palys also.
People Eaters are Zoanthids! lol
I've also found in my travels, zoanthids do not "slime" like SPS, LPS, and Palythoas do. This slime is not limited to Protopalythoas either. There is a current morph being circulated called "Pink & Gold Zoas". (Google it) They slime as much (if not more) than most protopalythoas i have handled.
While i'm on this subject. Be careful handling palys that slime. This slime is created by the palythoas and is more than likely palytoxin. Zoanthid quirts are mostly water taken in like an anemone and not something they produce. Although i've received a pretty mean bacterial infection produced by a spittin' PE. Damn thing got me straight in the eye.
I'm no scientist... Just my .02
A. Grandis
Active member
Sorry, I don't agree.
The presence/no presence of grains in the body doesn't classify them.
Zoanthus spp. CAN have grains of substrate in their body, even if that's not the normal case scenario. No matter how long you've been doing this, my friend.
It's just your opinion, and my opinion. I respect your choice of thinking.
If you want to say that a Zoanthus sp. found on shore is Palythoa just because it has grains in it's structure, no problem.
That's why I would like to see something scientific.
Again: internet says what it wants.
Just opinions here...
I agree with the rest of the stuff you've said.
Grandis.
the808state
New member
as yours is... Mine i would rather call experience. That is what i am speaking on, not anything i have read or thought up.
I have 10 different morphs of zoas in my frag tank I've visually inspected after this thread and not one has sand on them. I also have a frag of Palythoa caesia which the tissue is almost 100% made of sand.
Your not going to find a zoanthid scientist on this site. What is being claimed, i thought, was common knowledge. Since you are contradicting the common known differences, please find the scientific proof to debunk what has been the norm for quite some time. I love to learn new things.
A. Grandis
Active member
Your experiences of all those years are just your experiences.
As mine, too.
Your word, and my word.
I believe in experiences also.
Yes, I'm trying to find the scientific proof to help myself understand what I find. I hope someone out there can help me in this regard.
Zoas CAN have substrate particles in their tissue. Sorry.
I love to learn too. That's why I'm here.
I didn't mean to make you upset. Sorry, if I did.
Grandis.
RokleM
Premium Member
True, and it also depends on what you keep in your tank. Tanks with SPS/LPS can deplete mag relatively quickly if uptake is high enough and the dosing regiment doesn't contain enough mag (i.e. calcium reactor without mag specific media).
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