what is wrong with this fish :(

[accordsirh22]

he was totally fine yesterday after 12 days of QT. swimming, eating, active. no injuries. wake this morning to find what looks like a couple scales flecked up on his head. moved him from one QT to a new one.

old qt is a larger system with 4 tanks. copper at .5, skimmer, lots of rock, and plenty of other fish doing just fine.

new QT is a simple 29biocube, .5 copper, skimmer running without cup for extra aeration. and prazipro. im pretty sure this guy is dead, but if i can save him, i sure want to

 

[3FordFamily]

what kind of fish???

 

[accordsirh22]

purple tilefish

 

[accordsirh22]

looks like the same thing happened here http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=587635

the head popping thing though, totally normal. they do that

but the symptoms seem almost identical from how they described it

 

[3FordFamily]

Sorry, pics didn't load first time. Yeah copper can cause damage to fish. I don't use it. I am one of the few that says that QTing is a bad idea because of stress and medication stress, particularly copper. Cloudy eye is another give away.

I would say it's a goner.

 

[accordsirh22]

yea i have a feeling he is a gonner. hmm never had much trouble with copper before, i might try moving him to a non copper tank then. it just amazes me that this happened so fast, and after nearly 2 weeks.

 

[3FordFamily]

yea i have a feeling he is a gonner. hmm never had much trouble with copper before, i might try moving him to a non copper tank then. it just amazes me that this happened so fast, and after nearly 2 weeks.

when was the last time you tested copper? Some copper tests are horrendously inaccurate. When I did use copper I used three kits to test and averaged the results. They were off quite a bit from each other, somehow.

Various forms of chelated copper can add or reduce complexity

 

[accordsirh22]

i went ahead and moved him to the noncopper tank. he was looking way worse. he is still breathing, but looks pretty bad. fingers crossed.

 

[accordsirh22]

i use cupramine and seachem test kit. i have been checking it every couple days, last time being yesterday. and i have been running the control test along side each test as well to assure it is .5

 

[3FordFamily]

Some fish don't do well with any copper. 1-2 weeks randomly drop dead, get foggy eyes, and/or act lethargic.

Angels are NOTORIOUS for this.

 

[albano]

I am one of the few that says that QTing is a bad idea because of stress and medication stress, particularly copper...

Medication/copper are not a 'necessity' of QT...and there can be much more stress by putting a new fish directly into the DT.

 

[3FordFamily]

Medication/copper are not a 'necessity' of QT...and there can be much more stress by putting a new fish directly into the DT.

In my experience, the stress is only of the new addition. My fish are completely immune to velvet, ich, and brook. New additions can die of these diseases on occasion, none of the others are affected.

 

[rssjsb]

In my experience, the stress is only of the new addition. My fish are completely immune to velvet, ich, and brook. New additions can die of these diseases on occasion, none of the others are affected.

I think your experience is not the norm. I've had the opposite. Everything seemed fine, I added a new fish, territorial chasing ensued and suddenly everyone's got ich. Just sayin'.

 

[albano]

In my experience, the stress is only of the new addition.

Isn't 'the new addition', the fish that you're not QTing to avoid stress?

... My fish are completely immune to velvet, ich, and brook. New additions can die of these diseases on occasion, none of the others are affected.

Keep believing that!

 

[3FordFamily]

I think your experience is not the norm. I've had the opposite. Everything seemed fine, I added a new fish, territorial chasing ensued and suddenly everyone's got ich. Just sayin'.

My fish chase new additions at times. But again, only the new additions are at risk. Everyone else survives.

I may be the exception, but constant copper and hypo treatment each time something happened and I saw ich was a real pain and I killed 2x as many fish doing this than what I now do. I did the "proper" method TTM, Copper, Hypo for 3 years in this hobby. 9 years my new way. Less work, less issues, less deaths.

Just my experience.

 

[triggreef]

Medication/copper are not a 'necessity' of QT...and there can be much more stress by putting a new fish directly into the DT.

Isn't 'the new addition', the fish that you're not QTing to avoid stress?


Keep believing that!

+1 On all points. Wrasse (seeing your tank is "mostly wrasse") are generally a little tougher when it comes to many parasites. Wait until some flukes make their way into your system. You won't be wrasse heavy anymore.

IMO nothing is more stressful to a new fish than being added into a new tank with other fish that have been their longer. Other fish that know how to out compete them for food and territory. I use qt but I use an established (and well furnished) decent size tank to first observe and allow the new fish to get used to captivity for a while prior to any treatment, provided no ailments that need immediate attention develope.

 

[3FordFamily]

+1 On all points. Wrasse (seeing your tank is "mostly wrasse") are generally a little tougher when it comes to many parasites. Wait until some flukes make their way into your system. You won't be wrasse heavy anymore.

IMO nothing is more stressful to a new fish than being added into a new tank with other fish that have been their longer. Other fish that know how to out compete them for food and territory. I use qt but I use an established (and well furnished) decent size tank to first observe and allow the new fish to get used to captivity for a while prior to any treatment, provided no ailments that need immediate attention develope.

I have three tanks.

I am not saying QT is always a bad idea.

I am saying my DT fish are all immune to ich and velvet and only new additions are affected.

My other fish include achilles tang, powder blue tang, desjardi sailfin, purple tang, queen angel, emperor angel, passer angel, potters angel, flame angel, leopard wrasses, red coris wrasse (tough to keep) and others.

 

[3FordFamily]

My other argument for those who do QT (and do not treat ich) is that they cannot say (statistically) that their tank is ich free.

This because oftentimes (statistically nearly always) fish that come from a LFS or anywhere other than shipped immediately from the source (or collected there- and even still several of those will, too) have ich. Those facilities move thousands of fish in and out. The odds of there being no parasites at these facilities throughout the value chain are statistically ZERO. A fish doesn't need to show ich to have it and carry it.

As such, the only point to QT'ing them is to allow them to calm before adding them. I see that as valid. But your DT has ich if this is your process, ever. Even for one fish. If it has not been treated as if it has ich.

That's not my .02, that's empirically-supported statistical truth.

 

[accordsirh22]

yea, the tile didnt make it guess next time with these guys im gunna try a no copper tank. never really seen them be prone to coming in with ich anyways. but thats really the only thing i can think of

 

[FishN00b83]

I'm surprised no one else picked up on this. you are dosing copper in a tank with live rock? the rock will absorb some of the copper and release it back. it could of ODed the tank. the lvl of copper was probably all over the place.