What would you like to see change?

[bmkindig]

"One of the BOD member's wives even told me that they were there to make a profit"

after rereading this i'm baffled bye this one?my wife was the only bod related one there and she would have never said that....

don't get me wrong i live for swaps and there are plently of reefers that are there to make a profit,but as a club giving away $2-3000 worth of stuff in a raffle,well tickets need to be pushed.

foe example 3 years ago in may when we were starting out i put about $1500-$2000 for a swap and the raffle only bought in about $480-$500 and this was all an out of pocket expense for me.





"
i dont think anyone was saying the board has not done a lot of work. i dont know who does what but i am sure there is a lot of time involved.
there are obviously 2 sides to this. the board sees they are putting in all the time and work and they dont feel appreciated. i can totally understand that. on the other side we see things being decided without our input, then we see a post asking for volunteers to do the work others decided to do. "


bod meeting consist of who is taking care of food. who is going to do this that or the other there are no real secrets our bod meeting are on ncpars.org maybe kevin can open them up for public viewing?



"One addition would be keeping the website updated"

for the most part r/c is our website

like i said i can step down.i don't hold any real position or title other then a bod member.and i know i feel these statements are agianist me so if you think my statements are unrealistic like me know

i take ncpars very seriuoslly and i can't say enough about the club and wish everyone would support our causes.

 

[zooqi]

If you read the other thread ,"Next Meeting " you will see that what really made me mad is when my personal life was brough up in a chat. I would've let everything go but that's not a way to test somebody's somebody's temper. Personal life should not be discussed here please. We need to leave families, personal life out of club discussion guys. We are not here to get family involved. Please don't discuss anybody's family or bring them to this discussions. Brad, you don't need to hear this kind words and ignore it since it does not have anything to do with what we are here. You have done alot to this club and all said should be ignored. Lets not open this subject again and instead how about we talk about something else and my suggestion is we talk about, " What would you like to see change? "

 

[CarlC]

Brad I brought up the website because if it is costing the club to keep it up it should be updated. Just a check and balances on out going money.

Could a note be posted on the home page about the need for the nomination committee.

Carl

 

[zooqi]

It takes alot of time to update websites and Fizz have done a great job updating it and I'm sure he is busy. I tried to get into updating it but it looks like is not in a simple format to do so and it was too complicated for my brain. If anybody who knows how to work that format and wants to help I'm sure Fizz won't mind. I tried but too much for me to understand (age is the cause).

 

[Barney121]

Re: meetings. Monthly meetings would be good, but everyone is so spread out geographically that you might need to think about a rotation through locations, or something. It was always a challenge to figure out how to have an in person meeting with more than 5 people. We used AOL instant messenger for board meetings, but it might be too unwieldy for general membership meetings and doesn't let you do speakers, etc.

Ricky: As I said, we had stickied threads up for months IN THIS GROUP that no one responded to. I guess you missed them while they were up? As an organization, we proposed pretty broad committees to help the organization that were intended to allow a lot of directions and hoped that specific activities would be undertaken by committee members. If we'd had responses or a suggestion thread a long time ago and then this all would not have been necessary. My experience is that it's a challenge to get people to volunteer. I hope that the next BOD will be conscious of not letting the club falls apart with personal matters after many people worked for the past 2 years to get the club on a formal and solid footing while trying to do new things.

Since Brad mentioned that making money comment, we've never been here to make money in the long term, but our thinking has always been that you can't run an organization in the red, either. A positive balance is needed to pay for swap costs, speakers, and anything else the club wants. So the initial meetings did try to do more than break even to accumulate a base for the club. The budget and balance was posted on NCPARS.org in November (under Forums - General NCPARS Business - Financial Report). It will be up to the next board to decide how much to charge in dues/swap admission and what to spend it on (education, speakers, swap food, raffle items, other things that you come up with). I think the web site updating is free courtesy of Kevin. One of the things he contributed is time on the website, so that hasn't been an expense.

 

[Fizz71]

Our website hosting fees are free as they are donated to us (by Jon Ludwig). The name "ncpars.org" we own, but that fee is minimal. As for the confusing format Mo mentioned....Mo likes to be right in the meat of the code for producing a site..and I'm the same way in my trade by day...but to make a site with the features that our site has is too much programming work and would cost A LOT of money or a dreadful amount of time for somebody to write.

So the site is actually a free program called PHP Nuke. We don't actually write the code for the site (like Mo does with HTML and I do with HTML and ASP)...we USE the site somebody else wrote in PHP since they have an admin interface rather than hand changing code. I actually purchased one of the versions in our name (you can pay for the latest, or get an older version free). I never expensed it though, it was out of my pocket since it wasn't much. The program was new for me at first too and I still don't understand everything it can do (we don't need it all). They keep evolving it and the instructions are vague. But it is a very popular tool and I do have a good foundation laid out for all kinds of useful features. We just didn't get the support we had hoped for on some of them so the site is floundering and I didn't bother to go through with everything else.

I will however add the nomination request..and a few other things I'll announce officially tonight when I'm not at my regular job.

--Fizz

 

[CarlC]

Cool. Thanks for the explanation.

Carl

 

[Murph72]

Brad: Just so you know, it wasn't your wife, nor was it this past swap.
My point being that I disagree with the idea that the swap is just meant to make money. I think it serves the club well for us to get together, share what is in our tanks, and help those that need knowledge. Are the swaps really running in the red without pushing us to give, give, give? Do we really need to be pushing the raffles?
Also, I can't believe the NCPARS board would want you to upfront the costs. I always thought the items on the tables were donated, not paid for by BOD members. If we can't get these items donated, are we really bringing in any profit for the club with them? You have me scratching my head now Brad. I always thought you got the items through donations.

 

[CarlC]

CarlC- How about you? Got anything you would like put into a newsletter? Current setup, experiences, or anything. [/B]

I am still pretty new to reefs. My current tank has only been up for about 8 month's.
I would have no problem doing a write up of my current setup though.
Maybe I could do something about a trip I took to Madagascar. It could go into what to prepare for if visiting a country that is lower than 3rd world.

Carl

 

[Fizz71]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6943886#post6943886 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Murph72
Brad: Just so you know, it wasn't your wife, nor was it this past swap.
My point being that I disagree with the idea that the swap is just meant to make money. I think it serves the club well for us to get together, share what is in our tanks, and help those that need knowledge. Are the swaps really running in the red without pushing us to give, give, give? Do we really need to be pushing the raffles?
Also, I can't believe the NCPARS board would want you to upfront the costs. I always thought the items on the tables were donated, not paid for by BOD members. If we can't get these items donated, are we really bringing in any profit for the club with them? You have me scratching my head now Brad. I always thought you got the items through donations.

More misread communication here....so let me try to explain...

The items at the last 2 (3?) swaps were all donated. Mostly from people Brad had called, but also from contacts of other board members (Tim did a lot for us, Sanjay donated the corals etc.).

The only time Brad put out money (to my knowledge) was for the swap at his house before we were completely formed....and that is one of the reasons we try to keep some money in the bank..so that that doesn't happen again. We still put out our own money to be reimbursed for some items..the club actually owes me $100 for the books and Jon for the tickets....but big costs we try to pay in advance or get donated when we can. All money going out currently requires too signatures, so nobody can buy anything on their own even if it is approved..it does slow things down, but it's the only way to properly track the money.

--Fizz

 

[bmkindig]

hey carl
yes kevin put it well.i'm turning back the wheels of time it was 2 years ago as of this upcoming may. becuase it was my sons 2nd birthday that week, he'll be 4 in may

costs of swaps are pretty high also i think we spent over $300 on food even after getting over $100 in grocery stores donations and things like printing flyers for advertizing name tags....... it all adds up but yes small swaps can be cheap order a few pizzas and the chips drinks but then theres no real perks (vendors, door prizes, raffles...)

 

[sassyfishy]

I would like to become involved, and become a member of NCPARS - but I haven't got a clue where to begin.

I'm actually a bit shy - and very much a "newbie" to the reef experience. Although I've had many years' experience in the freshwater aquaria hobby - I've only had my reef set up for about five months now....and I'm still learning. I've only lived in the area for the past year (having moved from Canada), so I don't really know many people.

I held the position of "secretary" years ago in the freshwater club I belonged to - so if anyone here needs help with typing up newsletters or any other clerical hobby-related work, I've got plenty of time to volunteer those services.

 

[rickyfins]

Great Sassyfishy, you are an ideal candidate depending on the bylaws. Most members don't have a copy of the bylaws as of yet. We have heard that they are done and we are waiting for them to either be posted or mailed to members. I am glad you are interested in this club and as a new member and a newbie reefer it will be nice to hear opinions from an outsider who has a fresh mind without all the hype that has been going on. Keep it up, I like your attitude.

Thanks,

Rick

 

[Barney121]

Great, sassyfish, secretary is often one of the least appreciated but most important positions a club can have, particularly for communication. I think the key thing that we all will want in board members is people willing to invest some time for the benefit of all.

Rick, Kevin just emailed me and I sent him the final bylaws that we had drafted in September. I didn't realize it wasn't already posted (he's converting to pdf and posting), I think we were waiting to be sure they were all OK from the lawyer with the NPO and incorporation. That all was finally approved a few weeks ago, so now it's all good to go. There really aren't fancy procedures or requirements for elections, our bylaws are really based on those of other clubs (I think we used the Atlanta and Washington clubs as models). The one thing that applies differently to you (and I think you aluded to this before) is that if someone is a commercial vendor (like you or Mal or Kelly) then they have to be elected by 60% instead of 51% to be on the board, that's basically to allow someone to be removed a little bit more easily if they abuse their club position to advance their own company/product at the expense of the club. All BOD members are also club members and pay dues, and so you'll pay commercial member dues, just like before. There's also a bunch of different sponsorship categories we developed and used with getting company donations/sponsorships at the last swap, those are not part of the bylaws but should be posted as well (I think they are).

 

[Tampico]

About 6 months ago, I decided to venture from my Freshwater tanks to a set up a 75 gal marine tank. I did not run out and buy everything and set it up one weekend. I have super patience and really wanted this adventure to be mostly DIY and Budget driven (if that is even possible). There has been great help for me thus far from this group. Much more help offered in fact, that my super slow pace can not utilize it all @ the moment. I would love to join a club, and preferably one that contains the friends that I have made here already. I do have a few concerns that I'd like to offer.

North central is a hike for me. I live in Lancaster county, actually only a few miles from "That Fish Place". I'd be more than willing to the trip a few times a year, but monthly meetings would be impossible for me to attend. I also think monthly meetings are important, so there is the catch 22. What would be the feasability of smaller groups all part of a bigger whole. Lets see if I can communicate this how I see it in my mind.

Several small groups ( say one down here for Lancaster/Dauphin/york counties, one in say Reading, another State college and so on.) These groups could still be part of NCPARS, with local meetings in person, 1 monthly whole NCPARS meeting online via AIM or netmeeting or something similar, and a yearly swap or 2. The Monthly Online meeting could be nothing more than a group of BOD available for a few hours to hear concerns and answer questions. A newsletter could fill in the happenings of the month for people that could not attent the live chat. (believe me, I know how plans can change, I am on call 24/7 with work. another reason why 2.5 hour trip is so hard for me)

That is just the main things that I ( as a clubless soon to be reef keeper) am looking for.

1. A few folks local enough that could stop in @ my place and scold me for "WHAT WERE YOU THINKING WHEN YOU DID THAT":eek2: or help out with a hands on demo, fragging, coral placement. That sort of thing

2. Information....... readily available via website, newletter, forum and meetings. Just one or a few just does not seem enough.


Just my thoughts, it may or may not be useful to hear what a non member thinks and wants out of a club.

 

[Carto]

I must first apologize. Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢m a founding NCPARS member and a long-time lurker. Unlike most of you, I check the website only on occasion. With that being said, I have a few comments. These comments are not directed at anyone in particular, but, from the recent increase in communication made me begin to analyze the situation.

A common thread in many of the posts on this forum are those being unable to drive distances to attend meetings. I think most are missing a small oversight here. The name of the organization is North Central PennsylvaniA Reef Society. Thatââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s right, North Central PA. From a detailed history lesson given by Mo last Thursday (3/9/06) pertaining to the history of NCPARS, he mentioned that Sanjay, Larry, Joe, and Mo wanted to get together and trade corals and talk reef tanks. Naturally, that blossomed into what NCPARS is today. So, I think that some people are missing the point that this grassroots of an organization began in the State College-Lock Haven-Williamsport area.

In most of my statewide professional organizations that Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢m associated with, North Central is referred to as the following counties: Clinton, Lycoming, Sullivan, Union, Potter, Tioga, Bradford. Of course, Centre is not including in that list (where State College is located), however, it isnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t too much of a stretch to have it included. Nevertheless, I think this begs the question: why are members and potential members upset about meetings of NCPARS being held in the Central portion of the state when that is part of the formal organizationsââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ title?

I for one saw this problem arising long ago. We have plenty of members in the southern and eastern part of the state. What would have remedied the situation was the formation of a PA Reef Society with multiple chapters ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ a SW group, NW group, South Central & North Central group, SE group, NE group, and even possibly a East-Central group. The logic behind this is exactly what everyone has been complaining/arguing about: the difficulty of getting many people from varied distances together. It would be much easier to have local meetings with your fellow reefers on a monthly basis that are easily accessible (i.e. you donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t have to drive three hours or more to get there ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ remember Mo, Joe, Sanjay and Larry??). The PA Reef Society could then convene annually (or bi-annually) to conduct statewide swaps and host more formal education opportunities (such has inviting Anthony Calfo (as Something Fishy did), Julian Sprung, etc, etc) in addition to hands-on workshops from DIY construction to fragging corals. Personally, I feel weââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢re missing out on the corals from the western part of the state! We seem to get only a handful of reef enthusiasts from the west, but, because of the structure (and focus, naturally) it limits their participation.

Is it possible to migrate NCPARS to a PA Reef Society including regional chapters? I know this is merely a matter of semantics but it appears to be impacting the organizational and logistical components of the organization. This may have been an oversight upon the creation of this organization: a very focused geographical name of the organization having members from across the state without thought to the potential ramifications. From the onset, people just wanted to get their hands on the newest, coolest coral possible. It has grown into something much more than that at this point.

 

[bmkindig]

hey
we had people from all local STATES!!!!! attend meetings and all thou pa.
trust in vote me in as president and i'll get some meetings setup closer to the lehigh valley

 

[ByTor]

Carto,

we were more than willing to try and go the route of having chapters of NCPARS but a certain few thought we were acting like the "Hells Angels" riding into town... (I've been searching for the threads. I will post them when I find them...)

IMO it's the way to go... I think it would definately make the club better at achieving some of our goals, plus give the members who want and can do the monthly meeting thing... Since members of this club are spread out... I think more projects can be moved along further and faster with small core groups working towards the same goal...

OK members lets go! Speak your peace!!! You all have a say!

 

[lawmary]

Hi Carto, thank you for posting. Your post was very helpful. I agree with you and ByTor about having one central organization with smaller subgroups that can meet regularly, if they wish. Out of respect for the other founding members, I would like to also hear their thoughts on NCPARS going in that direction.

 

[shimmy_yaz]

Yes I think the smaller more centralized groups may be a good idea as well. It really is hard for a lot of people to travel or even make plans to travel as something always seems to come up. Plus the bad part about having only 1 or 2 big swaps a year is that if for some reason someone can't make it on that particular date they are screwed out of a swap for another 6 months or so. If we had smaller groups and say a monthly frag swap or so there might be a better chance at making it to a few swaps a year. It doesn't really bother me that much I am willing to travel around if need be just more of a thought. Also maybe we could keep the same format as we currently use and try and get a better plan for some of the people that live close to each other to meet up somewhere and carpool to the events.