What's the Best way to prevent H2O overflow during power outage?

[tbone28]

I sold my 240g when we sold our home. I'm setting up a 180g reef in our new home, and want to avoid this issue at all costs, as I won't have a cabinet to contain the water this time around.

On my old 240g, I had small pilot holes drilled into the top of the returns to break the siphon. Even with this, there where times were my sump overflowed because my sump's water level was a bit high.

What are the tricks of the trade to minimize the amount of water draining back to the sump in a power outage?

1) Get a larger sump
2) Drill the pilot holes at a higher point in my return
3) ?

Will installing check valves be of any help?
Approximately how much water drains during a power outage?

FYI, I will not have any closed loops. I plan on having an internal overflow, draining into the sump, 2 returns, and some Tunze streams.

Thanks!

 

[goldmaniac]

for what it's worth, I use a UPS on my two pumps that go from my sump back up to my tank. it won't keep things going indefinitely, though. Just 15-20 minutes, I'd imagine. I never let them run until battery power is done.

Whenever we have a power outage in PA, it's at night during a storm, and I'm home to run down to the tank in the dark to break the syphons. a UPS (uninterrupable power supply, a battery backup) keeps the pumps going until I get there.

 

[tbone28]

Thanks, that's a good idea, but I live in California, where we have rolling blackouts during the summer months to conserve energy. I'm usually at work when these happen.

I do plan on running UPS on my powerheads, though.

I've read threads where people tie in a generator into their circuit box, but space and costs are prohibitive.

 

[barbra]

If you are just looking to prevent an overflow then all you have to do is make sure that there is enough room in your sump to handle the amount of water that will overflow from your tank.

 

[tbone28]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9638115#post9638115 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by barbra
If you are just looking to prevent an overflow then all you have to do is make sure that there is enough room in your sump to handle the amount of water that will overflow from your tank.

Is there a way to figure out how much water overflows from a 180g?

 

[barbra]

Honestly, I have never done any figuring other than to just turn off the pump and watch what happens. You can get a feel for the spacial relations really quick that way. Just stand by with the pump cord ready to plug back in in case you get too close to the top and the overflow is still chugging along. Not terribly scientific, but effective.

You can figure the volume of water in a given area this way: L x W x H and divide the result by 231. I couldn't tell you how to figure out the gph of the overflow without an engineer or a flow meter.

 

[MrSpiffy]

Well, it's either:

1. Run a generator to keep things going.
2. Design the sump and display to make sure the amount that drains into the sump doesn't cause it to overflow before water gets below the bulkhead or overflow in the display.

or...

3. Start scooping water out... FAST! lol!

Check valves won't really do you much good. They're designed to let flow happen in one direction and not the other. If you put them in to keep the flow from draining to the sump, your display would overflow when the pump is on. I suppose you could put a ball valve on the drain, but you'd better be mighty fast to close it if power goes out!

 

[jefathome]

Use a check-valve on the return line b/c often this is lower in the tank than the overflow. Putting a check valve on this will only let water drain as low as the overflow now.

Also, the larger your overflow, the lower the water will sit, so when power goes out, there will be less water draining into the sump.

 

[RichConley]

"What's the Best way to prevent H2O overflow during power outage?"

Design your system properly.



Why is your return line even submerged. I've got a 1" line that moves 500gph or so, sitting about 1/2" above the surface. No splashing, no chance of siphoning.

 

[tbone28]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9638587#post9638587 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
"What's the Best way to prevent H2O overflow during power outage?"

Design your system properly.



Why is your return line even submerged. I've got a 1" line that moves 500gph or so, sitting about 1/2" above the surface. No splashing, no chance of siphoning.

Can you post pictures of your setup please?

Use a check-valve on the return line b/c often this is lower in the tank than the overflow. Putting a check valve on this will only let water drain as low as the overflow now.

Also, the larger your overflow, the lower the water will sit, so when power goes out, there will be less water draining into the sump. [/B]

Can you post pics, too?

 

[lakwriter]

Supposedly, these overflows are very difficult to "over flow" http://www.lifereef.com/siphon.html

 

[CSS Reef]

The best way has already has been discussed above. Just take your return line and dont submerge OR if you do submerge, Calculate the amount of water at the depth of your return output.

For example if you have a standard 120 gallon tank 48" X 24" X 24" (48" X 48" X 24" / 231 = 119.7 gallon)

Now if your return output is 1" below surface of water you can approximate: 48" X 48" X 1" / 231 = 9.97 gallons of backflow into your sump. Now you just need to make sure your sump can take the additional 10 gallons of backflow with a couple of extra gallons for safety factor.


Im my opinion I would avoid check valves because of their tendancy to fail, or get stuck in the open position after months and years of crud flow through. You also get some head loss thrugh a check valve reducing your pumps efficeincy. If I was set on getting a check valve, get the clear ones so you can at least see that everything is ok inside the valve assembly.

 

[Machiavelli]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9638892#post9638892 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lakwriter
Supposedly, these overflows are very difficult to "over flow" http://www.lifereef.com/siphon.html

Agreed, these are absolutely wonderful overflows. No pump required to maintain the overflow siphon as well.

 

[TKByrnes]

thats the overflow that i have but sometimes they do break. its very rare but they do. all you have to do is establish a fill to line on your sump.

 

[tbone28]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9638937#post9638937 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CSS Reef
The best way has already has been discussed above. Just take your return line and dont submerge OR if you do submerge, Calculate the amount of water at the depth of your return output.

For example if you have a standard 120 gallon tank 48" X 24" X 24" (48" X 48" X 24" / 231 = 119.7 gallon)

Now if your return output is 1" below surface of water you can approximate: 48" X 48" X 1" / 231 = 9.97 gallons of backflow into your sump. Now you just need to make sure your sump can take the additional 10 gallons of backflow with a couple of extra gallons for safety factor.


Im my opinion I would avoid check valves because of their tendancy to fail, or get stuck in the open position after months and years of crud flow through. You also get some head loss thrugh a check valve reducing your pumps efficeincy. If I was set on getting a check valve, get the clear ones so you can at least see that everything is ok inside the valve assembly.

I think I will avoid the check valve, as I've read a few threads about it failing. Thanks for the "formula" to figure out backflow. I'

I think my issue on my last tank (240g), was having too small of a sump (30"x15"x15"). I had to keep a very low water level in the sump to avoid overflows.

Many of you are saying not to submerge the return line. I am having trouble picturing this. Can anyone post a picture of this setup or explain it in another way? Thanks!

 

[CSS Reef]

What are you using to return from your main pump back in to your tank?If you use locline fittings then you can just adjust the output as high or low as you want. I know some think they are ugly but I like the adjustability. Also, I would think it depends what return pump you are using as well. If your outflow is above the water line on a really strong pump you might get too much open jet flow, splashing and chance of introducing some microbubbles?? Personally I wouls just use the locline and and you can adjust to the capacity of your sump.

 

[CSS Reef]

What are you using to return from your main pump back in to your tank?If you use locline fittings then you can just adjust the output as high or low as you want. I know some think they are ugly but I like the adjustability. Also, I would think it depends what return pump you are using as well. If your outflow is above the water line on a really strong pump you might get too much open jet flow, splashing and chance of introducing some microbubbles?? Personally I wouls just use the locline and and you can adjust to the capacity of your sump.

 

[Worldwithin]

As stated before by others, you need to maintain an amount of water in your sump that will not cause it to overflow when your display drains into it. For me, there was a bit of trial and error associated with this, but the key was to find where you need to have your siphon break on your display. If you have your plumbing submerged in your tank, then just drill breaks high, close to the water level in your tank.

From there, do some real life testing. Just shut off the power to your tank and see what happens.

:fish1::hammer:

 

[CSS Reef]

Oops I just saw a mistake after re-reading my first post should read:

Tank capacity:
48" L X 24" W X 24" deep (48" X 24" X 24" / 231 = 119.7 gallons

Backflow submerged 1" deep
48" L X 24" W X 1" deep = (48" X 24" X 1" / 231 = 4.98 gallons

 

[swimboy123]

I use a UPS and have it hooked to my main pump. It will give me about 40 minutes of lee-way which is enough time for me to get home. Even though I've shown my wife what to do if it happens, she always get's the plumbing fixtures confused.