when to stop copper?

greg1786

greg1786

Active member
I had an ich outbreak from a new fish and quarentined my two cinnamon clowns (male also had ich) zebra barred goby and the new fish a(Atlantic blue tang) at first sign. the dt has been fallow almost a month and the fish have been in copper 28 days. I lost the tang after 10 days in ht. since they have been in copper there has been no sign of ich. is it time to stop copper treatment and put them in "clean water" ? if so how do I go about this as I only have the one extra tank which has copper in it. should I just drain completely and refill....do several large water changes...or drain tank wipe with bleach including filter thermometer heater and pvc and then refill?? also how many more days before I could put back in dt according to what I've read I'm at about 70% chance I've irradicated ich from dt


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$ weeks is about right with Cu, IMO. GOOD carbon, Poly Filters (the specific brand) or Cuprisorb will remove Cu quickly. WCs, of course will bring it down too.
 
DT has to be fallow for 9 weeks. You're less than halfway there. When I use copper, I keep the fish in it for the full 9 weeks. Unless you have a second QT tank setup and cycled I don't see any benefit in cooking the current QT and stopping copper. Others here probably have different opinions on this, but copper is only effective on theronts (The last stage of the crypto cycle) so stopping copper without transferring the fish to a new sterile tank is a gamble. There's a chance that the crypto parasite can hatch and start the cycle all over again if you don't treat for the full 9 weeks.
 
"How much copper, for how long" will probably always be a controversial topic. Even nine weeks does not guarantee a 100% ich kill rate. RCs Snovich has a well-researched sticky that explains it. Long-term damage (usually to the fish's liver) from copper is suspected; but nobody seems to know for sure just what the risks are. I have, on a few occasions, needed to dose copper twice, with a week of no-copper between doses. Careful observation for at least a week isn't 100% foolproof; but is needed for any fish being treated. There also are plenty of folks who think any copper, anytime is dangerous. However, almost every fish people have has been treated with copper on the way to his tank. I am very hesitant to use an ich-killing dose of copper for longer than 4 weeks. But, who knows for sure what the safe dose and time-exposure to copper is?
 
thanks for all the advice I did a water change after work this evening and both clowns in the ht have ich again and its pretty bad for the male. I have kept my copper at 1.5ppm which is right where mardel says is the range it should be. how is this possible ?!?!!? I am really discouraged by this it makes me feel like giving up. I've put countless hours days and weeks into trying to cure my fish and now it starts all over again. is there something I'm doing wrong? should I change medication? should I drain the whole ht and start w new water. please help if you can I don't know what to do at this point and I really don't want to lose the pair of clowns they have been with me since day 1 of starting this hobby. thanks in advance -Greg


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where is snorvich when you need him?!? lol I read all of your threads and posts on ich and it seems like your the most knowledgable person to go to about this so if ur out there I could really use the help!! thanks in advance -Greg


Posted from ReefCentral.com App for Android
 
how did you monitor the copper level in the ht? after 28 days withthe correct treatment levels should have erradicated the parasite. i prefer seachem's cupramine for treatment maybe you can treat with that..do 2weeks treatment and monitor for another couple weeks to make sure no further signs appear. for quick treatment for severly infected fish give them a couple fresh water dips or baths.. lmk if you want further assistance.
 
I used api copper test kit. it is a dropper and test tube w a color chart. it measures 0-4ppm . the copper in mardels coppersafe is chelated copper I don't know if that makes a difference. a friend of mine recommended that I use salifert test kit that its much better so I m going to order that tomorrow. perhaps the test kit I was using was giving me an inaccurate reading ? I raised the copper lever up a little this evening and will check the fish tmw morning to see if the spots receeded at all. perhaps I should switch copper like you recommended to cupramine I see a lot of ppl on this forum hold it in high regards thank you for your help and you mentioned for further assistance lmk....what does lmk mean?


Posted from ReefCentral.com App for Android
 
lmk= let me know.
i believe that even cupramine's therapeutic levels can even be effective so not sure about mardels. also most fish can tolerate higher levels for short periods of time. once the parasite releases 3-10 days or so the copper should kill them while they are in the free floating stage.
you dont have naything in the ht that will absorb the copper right?
 
I don't believe so I have a glass thermometer a regular glass heater an airstone an empty hob filter and a semi translucent plastic cylinder open atboth ends for the fish to hide but I used that instead of pvc so I could see the fish if they went in


Posted from ReefCentral.com App for Android
 
1+ on Cupramine! But I treat for two full cycles. This doesn't of course guarantee anything as ich or any other parasite can come in at any time, but I've had good success with quarantine for 30 days in Cupramine, if, garlic power and staying within a .5 degree temperature variance in the tank. The last part is the most difficult, but I've been able to do it via the sump effectively(knock on wood) with a controller and oversized titatium element connected via the controller.

But my wife(and yes, when you have one in the hobby also, it's like a second double brain) is the voice of reason when it comes to quarantine time. She keeps a log of when they go in, and when they will come out, with alarms being sent to our phones on the day and time for release. At first it was difficult, but now, it's just normal and honestly, I think of it in terms of "one less animal that I have worry about feeding for a little while or getused to their eating habits". So, the longer I keep them in quarantine, the better off they are with the Cupramine. Also, cupramine as i have found, is removed the quickest with Marineland Carbon. That, in a phosban reactor filled 1/4 and slowly flowing, for me will remove the cupramine in less than a week.

But cupramine is wonderful..

sent from galaxy note or tab using Tapatalk2
 
my gf actually does the same think with keeping a log of when the fish went in how often we've changed water and dosed copper the fishes behavior etc etc.... which has been very helpful . I wonder if I cant get this situation under control with the copper if I should try tank transfer? I have been reading the stickies on it and it seems pretty effective I'm just worried that with the multiple outbreaks and the stress the fish have already endured that trying it now may be too hard on the fish especially when I get to the second transfer or third tank and there is no more biological filter or bacteria they may have a hard time adjusting at this point being so far along in treatment . what do you guys think about that?


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dude I'm losing the battle against ich big time I just lost the male cinnamon clown and it looks like the female isnt going to make it thru the night. I have literally done everything exactly as I was supposed to but it seems as tho its been in vain. I guess one positive is the dt has been fallow for about a month now so only two more months of that and at least ill have an ich free dt. I really have no idea what I did wrong but I do seriously hope hope that I never have to go through this again. thanks for all the advice/help


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yes I actually dipped all three remaining fish yesterday when I got off of work. I think I was just simply too late. I also lowered the salinity last night in ht to 1.015 and this am dropped it to 1.009 and the two remaining fish seem to be responding ok to this. they haven't gotten any worse and it appears they aren't laboring to breath quite as hard


Posted from ReefCentral.com App for Android
 
yes I actually dipped all three remaining fish yesterday when I got off of work. I think I was just simply too late. I also lowered the salinity last night in ht to 1.015 and this am dropped it to 1.009 and the two remaining fish seem to be responding ok to this. they haven't gotten any worse and it appears they aren't laboring to breath quite as hard


Posted from ReefCentral.com App for Android
 
just make sure the ph of the fresh water is the same as what they came out of.
keep the fish in right up till it begins to tip on its side. some fish tolerate this much better than others.. from seconds to minutes.
 
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