Where should I go from here? Mysterious deaths in quarantine tank.

[Baldwin]

I have been having a difficult problem in a quarantine tank that has contained many fish, and several have dies in the last couple of months or so. I have tried treatments, one after another (of course water changes and carbon between to no avail at fixing the problem. I have even moved some of the weaker looking fish into different water thinking that maybe it was a pump leaking electricity or something, and the fish ended up dying. I have treated with prazi pro, cupramine, nitrofurazone, and hyposalinity.I am now treating the fish with metrozinadole in their food thinking it may be internal. I cannot see anything physically wrong with the fish, no spots, or haziness. I eally don't know where to go from here if the metro doesn't work. The fish seem to die one by one, and usually they start breathing really heavily before they die, and just kind of lying on their sides. I have lost 2 flame angels, a king angel, 2 squareback anthias, a occellaris clown, and currently have a blonde naso, bicolor foxface and dragon wrasse in the tank. The foxface seems to have the highest resistance to whatever the problem is because he has been in the tank since the beginning. I'm really stuck here and don't know where to go, do you have any ideas?

 

[gweston]

Tough to say... QT cycled? Try picking up a seachem ammonia alert badge. They are like $7 at a common box pet stores. I keep one in my QT to keep watch for ammonia spikes. Far more convenient than daily testing for ammonia with a kit.

How big a QT? What sort of filter/filtration.

My concern with my QT is if it is cycled/ammonia, stable water temp, plenty of oxygen. I don't fill the tank completely so the HOB Aquaclear drops the water a bit to agitate/oxygenate the water sufficiently. I then have a backup B11 pump in case of power outage.

 

[ArtemisGoldfish]

Do you have the tools to do an autopsy per chance? If you can filet a fish, you can essentially open the fish up and check the internal organs for swelling, damage, inflammation and other things such as livor mortis.

This would be a good start to determine what was affected. It sounds as if you have an "x" factor in your tank that you can't test. If you open the fish up and discover no general signs of trauma or the above listed issues, then my best guess would be that you have a chemical in there that is destroying the nervous system of the fish.

Assuming you can financially hack it, you can always ditch the equipment and start off with a new tank, etc. As you've already lost 200 $ worth of fish, I'd state that this is your best option.

Edit: I just thought of something also; are you getting your fish from the same place? Some fish jockeys employ gas to nab the fish in the wild. This effectively knocks the fish out however it also winds up severely damaging the fish.

Can you list symptoms please?

 

[Baldwin]

Got half of them from liveaquaria, so I doubt this is the case, although one of the fish from liveaquaria was DOA and another wasn't much better. If I ahve to I will always add the fish to another system, but I would like to save the ones I have in there now.

 

[ArtemisGoldfish]

Got half of them from liveaquaria, so I doubt this is the case, although one of the fish from liveaquaria was DOA and another wasn't much better. If I ahve to I will always add the fish to another system, but I would like to save the ones I have in there now.

There are too many unknowns here at the moment. Can you describe your quarantine procedures as well as the symptoms of the fish?

 

[cougaran]

I'd say start a new QT tank. I think(although not always practical) that everytime we finish a Qt cycle that the entire tank should be dumped and thoroughly cleaned and allowed to dry. Any filtration, tubes, hiding places included.

Depending on how many fish we are dealing with here, but still makes sense would be to give each one seperately a freshwater bath with matched PH and temperature for about 5 mins or pull fish out sooner if it shows signs of severe distress. Then place each one into new QT tank.

If you continue to have deaths then i would start w/ cupramine treatments. Also be awhere that sometimes with multiple medicines in a tank you can create a toxic tank. Carefully measure cupramine levels several times so underdosage(which makes process inefective as some portion of the thing you are trying to erradicate lives) or overdosage(which makes toxicity poisoning possible and loss of fish) does not occur.

Frequent tests of ammonia or the badge is also recommended for the QT tank.

 

[ArtemisGoldfish]

I'd say start a new QT tank. I think(although not always practical) that everytime we finish a Qt cycle that the entire tank should be dumped and thoroughly cleaned and allowed to dry. Any filtration, tubes, hiding places included.

Depending on how many fish we are dealing with here, but still makes sense would be to give each one seperately a freshwater bath with matched PH and temperature for about 5 mins or pull fish out sooner if it shows signs of severe distress. Then place each one into new QT tank.

If you continue to have deaths then i would start w/ cupramine treatments. Also be awhere that sometimes with multiple medicines in a tank you can create a toxic tank. Carefully measure cupramine levels several times so underdosage(which makes process inefective as some portion of the thing you are trying to erradicate lives) or overdosage(which makes toxicity poisoning possible and loss of fish) does not occur.

Frequent tests of ammonia or the badge is also recommended for the QT tank.

Freshwater baths for saltwater fish aren't a great idea. I don't know where this stategy came from as you run the high risk of osmotic shock for your fish.

 

[Baldwin]

Ok thanks for the inputs guys, I (HOPE) that I may have discovered the cause today. I decided to check all my equipment to see maybe if it was a equipment malfunction. I had checked the heater and it was set on 82. 82 is fine for me, but then when I checked the actual temp with a thermometer the temp was 90. I know this is really dangerously high, and I lowered the heater to 75. I really hope that this was the issue, could high temps make fish die one by one like has been happening though and cause rapid breathing and what not?

 

[lhm nole]

Ok thanks for the inputs guys, I (HOPE) that I may have discovered the cause today. I decided to check all my equipment to see maybe if it was a equipment malfunction. I had checked the heater and it was set on 82. 82 is fine for me, but then when I checked the actual temp with a thermometer the temp was 90. I know this is really dangerously high, and I lowered the heater to 75. I really hope that this was the issue, could high temps make fish die one by one like has been happening though and cause rapid breathing and what not?

90 degrees for a extended period time will cause fish to die I learned the hard way years ago the fish would seem fine for several days then suddenly take a turn for the worse breathing would increase and they would start to roll some fish can take the higher temps but angels cannot. The culprit was also my heater was stuck now I use a controller.

BTW be careful using nitrofurazon stuff is really hard on fish imo

 

[evsalty]

Freshwater baths for saltwater fish aren't a great idea. I don't know where this stategy came from as you run the high risk of osmotic shock for your fish.

Fresh water dips have been successfully used in this hobby for decades. 5mins is about all most fish can handle.

Ok thanks for the inputs guys, I (HOPE) that I may have discovered the cause today. I decided to check all my equipment to see maybe if it was a equipment malfunction. I had checked the heater and it was set on 82. 82 is fine for me, but then when I checked the actual temp with a thermometer the temp was 90. I know this is really dangerously high, and I lowered the heater to 75. I really hope that this was the issue, could high temps make fish die one by one like has been happening though and cause rapid breathing and what not?

High temps like that cause the fishes metabolism to increase significantly and thus they need far more oxygen and food to survive. This could very well be one of your issues and probably the main one. I say one of because you have yet to state what size your qt tank is and with multiple fish of size they will take up the o2 very fast.

 

[Baldwin]

It is a 20 gallon. None of these fish are very big. I will update everyone on their behavior today, as the lights haven't came on yet. The anel behavior when dying sounds very much like was described, swirling and rapid breathing. I swear I feel like such a fool. I shouldv'e checked equipment first, I just assumed disease or parasite because the on fish was DOA, and the other was not far.

 

[evsalty]

Hopefully all will be well for the 3 in there now.

 

[lhm nole]

It is a 20 gallon. None of these fish are very big. I will update everyone on their behavior today, as the lights haven't came on yet. The anel behavior when dying sounds very much like was described, swirling and rapid breathing. I swear I feel like such a fool. I shouldv'e checked equipment first, I just assumed disease or parasite because the on fish was DOA, and the other was not far.

Unfortunately that's how we learn before the age of internet things were alot harder. I just try not to make the same mistake twice.

 

[Baldwin]

Yeah, from here on out I will check ALL of the equipment first. The fish seem to be breathing less heavy today, and they are all eating. Hopefully this will be the cure.

 

[lhm nole]

Yeah, from here on out I will check ALL of the equipment first. The fish seem to be breathing less heavy today, and they are all eating. Hopefully this will be the cure.

Good to hear

 

[cougaran]

Freshwater baths for saltwater fish aren't a great idea. I don't know where this stategy came from as you run the high risk of osmotic shock for your fish.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/sp/feature/index.php

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dips_baths.htm


Now freshwater baths aren't 100% effective, but its a step in the right direction. I'm in the process of researching more effective methods than just freshwater bath on initial entry into QT.. I played around for years w/ formalin baths on inital entry, but its very harsh on fish..BUT I beleive i had less fish related diasease entering the main tank from qt.

Baldwin glad you found culprit as high temperatures... There are so many variables in our glass cages that can casue fish to die...