Which Parameters to measure? All in one device?

[Brandon0034]

My main concern here is what does everyone actually measure and is a $500 reef monitor system common in most tanks? I know the main measurements are salinity, ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, pH, temperature, etc. but does everyone also measure phosphate, magnesium, calcium, alkalinity, silica, boron, iron,....?

I'm just curious if most people measure salinity and keep the temperature right then say "ok that's good enough for me". Looking at all the gauges costing roughly $50 a piece it will add up to over $1000 and consume an enormous amount of time measuring these parameters weekly/every water change. Please provide some insight on the best route or if I'm overanalyzing the idea. I like to be precise and don't take shortcuts but I feel there must be an easier way to keep the tank in check.

Thanks in advance.

 

[BillNye]

When doing a water change, I test the following:

Salinity
CA
ALK
MAG

Every few water changes I check nitrite/nitrate, ammonia and phosphate to make sure everything is in check. If not, I check and change until it is.

The $500 reef monitor does more than just check levels. My apex also runs my water change for me, keeps my temp/other params in check and has many fail safes.

If you're going to invest the money into a system, fish and corals, you might as well take the extra time to test your water since that's the single most important part of the hobby.

 

[Brandon0034]

So do you have a hydrometer/refractometer and colorimeter for each of the other three measures? That would mean you're using 4 different devices just to make a water change if you don't have an ATO. I'm wondering more about when doing water changes to make sure the values are correct before adding to the tank.

Also do the reef monitors measure EVERYTHING? When I look online all I see is pH and temperature. What about salinity, ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, phosphate, magnesium, calcium, alkalinity, silica, boron, iron, etc?

 

[Aframomum]

Often times many people will run around in circles trying to measure so many parameters and get themselves all confused. Best thing to do is to do the major ones - salinity, temperature, and Kh (alkalinity). With calcium requiring corals comes 2 more - Calcium and Magnesium. These can all be done with liquid test kits (Salifert, API, etc). Of course during the cycle your testing constantly for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate to monitor the progress. Afterwards, on occasion until your comfortable.

In time you'll be able to know you water parameters by watching the animals in your tank and how they are reacting. They'll be your first alert. If something is amiss then you break out all your testing equipment and find out what is out of place.

Concerning the waterchange - its a good idea to test new batches of salt to make sure you know what your putting into your tank and not just going by manufacturers claims. Prove what they have written on the box as numbers go.

 

[snorvich]

I test (weekly) using Elos Test Kits:

Ca (about 430)
Mg (about 1300-1350)
Alk (about 9.0-9.5)

and I test SG monthly using a refractometer (1.025)

 

[Member No. 1]

So do you have a hydrometer/refractometer and colorimeter for each of the other three measures? That would mean you're using 4 different devices just to make a water change if you don't have an ATO. I'm wondering more about when doing water changes to make sure the values are correct before adding to the tank.

Also do the reef monitors measure EVERYTHING? When I look online all I see is pH and temperature. What about salinity, ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, phosphate, magnesium, calcium, alkalinity, silica, boron, iron, etc?

Brandon, I'll try to shed some light based on my experience and knowledge.

At the present time there isn't a "Do All, Check All" monitor on the market. I use a Neptune Apex to monitor some parameters, and for device control.
What I monitor:
Tank pH
Calcium reactor pH
ORP
Tank Temp
Sump Temp
Salinity/Conductivity

What I control with Apex besides the obvious lights and pumps:

Co2 input to the calcium reactor based on the pH of the reactor
Heaters/Chiller based on tank/sump temp
Ozone generator based on ORP

I use these to do a lot more in-depth control, but I want to show the basics.

I only monitor Salinity/Conductivity to track trends and not for control.
I also use a calibrated refractometer to verify the salinity.

I also have float switches to control an out of control ATO or AWC pump.

The other tests as in ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, phosphate, magnesium, calcium, alkalinity, silica, boron, iron, etc,
once the tank has settled in, a lot of testing really isn't needed. I only test for alk twice a week, and calcium once
a week.

My nitrate and phosphate remain very low, not at zero, but I don't have algae issues so I don't test that often.

Magnesium, I only test once a month as my levels stay steady.

Ammonia and nitrite should remain at zero once the tank has cycled and I can't remember the last time
I tested these.

The others I never test.

One thing that I think does help a lot is I do a daily AWC of 6 liters (~1.5 gal) so this helps keep the levels
steady, and nitrate and phosphate under control.
I don't use GFO, carbon, a refugium, vodka dosing, or any kind of chemical water treatments.

Bottom line is I think people get to hung up chasing the perfect numbers and get into more trouble by
using the results to keep adjusting up and down and not maintaining a stable environment.
In the beginning, sure you can test, watch the trends, make VERY SLOW ADJUSTMENTS, keep good notes
and records of what did what, but in the big picture, watch the tank. You will learn over time
when something is going wrong.

 

[Ron Reefman]

Brandon, where are you with your tank? Is it new? How new? Has it cycled? Or is this an older system that has settled in and is maturing?

If new and with no stony corals (lps & sps) or not many, you probably don't have to worry about cal, alk and mag too much yet. Alk is always worth checking though, because if it gets out of line by much, bad things happen quickly.

If it is a new tank within the last few months, keep checks ammonia, and nitrate (don't sweat the nitrite as it's just a marker along the way from ammonia to nitrate which are the beginning and the 'almost' end. And keeping track of phosphates isn't a bad idea until you are sure everything in your tank is running smoothly and it's maturing (9 to 18 months).

Test your salinity, it's so easy. A cheap hydrometer is all you really need. Just test it at the LFS or a friend's house who has a refractometer that has been calibrated. Then you will know the error rate built into your hydrometer and it will not change for years and years. I'm going on 5 years now and it's still right on the same 0.004 higher than my refractometer.

IMHO, most reefers use individual test kits for each parameter they want to test for. I use API because they are inexpensive and easy to use. They are not as deadly accurate as other test kits, but I'm not looking for accurate as much as I'm looking for trends or large fluctuations. If I see either in my alk, cal or mag I breakout my Salifert test kit and do the test again.

 

[Brandon0034]

Brandon, where are you with your tank? Is it new? How new? Has it cycled? Or is this an older system that has settled in and is maturing?

I haven't even started yet with my new tank, I plan to start up during summer. I have just been researching the past month to make sure I have a proper understanding of how the entire system works. I realize without actually starting up a tank I won't understand a great deal, but I didn't want to go into this without acquiring the most knowledge to my ability.

I have all my equipment mapped out from skimmer to plumbing. I have no problem testing multiple parameters. I 100% intended to test salinity every water change by buying a refractometer and using the correct temperature.

My main concern was do I test Ca, Ak, pH, and other measures every time I add new water to the tank and if so what do YOU use? Do I test the new batch of saltwater I mixed then once I put it in the tank measure the DT after? Do I buy each of the $50 digital colorimeters? Sorry if I sound redundant, I just want to have this all perfectly organized and make sure I go into this with everything I need.

 

[ryeguyy84]

here what I do:

when I buy a bucket of salt I shake the bucket well then make 20 gallons to the correct salinity and test alk/Cal/Mag and assume this is going to be fairly consistent for that bucket. so I only test newly made salt when I open a new bucket.


As far as testing the tank, I test Alk/Cal/Mag when I do a water change with is on Sat morning. I test Phosphates when I notice i'm cleaning the glass more often or something seems off. I test Nitrate quarterly at best or if there is a problem.

as for PH, it floats around the 8 range based on my Apex, if I see it going down usually I just open a window and it goes back up. for me it's more of a measure indoor air quality.

In the beginning you will test Ammonia, Nitrate and Nitrite often.

Edit:
I use the following:

Alk - Hanna Checker (its the easiest I've found)
Cal - Red sea
Mag - Red sea
Phosphate - Hanna Checker
Ammonia - API
Nitrate - Red sea
Salinity - Refractometer

 

[Brandon0034]

So essentially if I buy a quality refractometer and the red see reef pro test kit for CA, ALK, MG, then that should be sufficient?

I'll measure salinity every water change and the CA, ALK,MG bi weekly from the DT for the first few months of cycle/tank start up then get a reef monitor down the road. Will this be a solid game plan or should I be more thorough?

 

[ryeguyy84]

IMO you don't really need ALK/Cal/Mag tests until you get corals in the tank. To start off you want to monitor the cycle by testing for ammonia, Nitrite and nitrate.

If by reef monitor you mean a controller like an apex I'd get that from the start, again just my opinion.

They aren't cheap but they can do a lot, for example what are you doing for an ATO (Auto Top off) or light timers or more importantly heat controller? one faulty heater can take down your whole system. it's added protection.

 

[Brandon0034]

The tank will be set up in a room separated from the house(essentially a guest house) and there isn't a water line ran to the room so I intend to do manual changes with an RO/DI and 55gal Brute trash cans.

The lights I will be purchasing 72" led models from my lfs with a control module for timer and weather replication(thunderstorm mode, night, etc).

That really leaves me with only the heater situation. I was going to set up the tank and see what the temperature ranges from considering it is a smaller room with its own a/c unit I figured I could get by with keeping the ambient temp to support the water temp. My lfs store said there was no need for a heater so long the room temperature is proper.

P.S. I do live in Florida so this seemed accurate to me, considering we rarely see cold temperatures more than a couple weeks of the year. For example its upper 80s today in mid November :lmao:

 

[jrr98002]

I've only ever used a controller on especially expensively-stocked tanks as they can add up to a chunk if you ever get into multiple tanks like I have, but they're not a bad investment if you want some automation in your equipment or certain things like pH/temp/etc. I've never had a tank fail as I replace pumps/heaters/etc. frequently, which can sure add up to more than the cost of a controller over time but I alway seem to have little bits of cash available every once in a while compared to a big chunk at once.

To answer your main question though, at first all you really need to test for is salinity, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate while you cycle. After you cycle, and you test a few times and get 0s, it's fairly safe to eliminate ammonia and nitrite unless something drastic happens. Once you get stuff in your tank, you'll want to add pH and alk. When you have corals, add Mg and Ca. Phosphate can be a good idea if you have algae issues, but I don't personally do that one often. During a WC, I test for salinity, temp, alk, Ca, and Mg and that's pretty much it. You can get the colorimeters, but IME those can give false readings if you don't clean your vials correctly or when they (and they will) eventually lose calibration. I'm a degreed chemist and have done titrations for well over 25 years so I personally choose those test kits, but it's really up to you. What is suggested above works well.

 

[Aframomum]

What size tank will this be for?

For the first month while the tank cycles your going to need test kits for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. No more. API is inexpensive and gives you decent results. A refractometer is a good choice for checking S.G.

Yeah, the temps this month have been a bit wacky so I haven't even plugged in my heater - working more to keep the tank temps down then trying to raise them.

 

[Brandon0034]

What size tank will this be for?

For the first month while the tank cycles your going to need test kits for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. No more. API is inexpensive and gives you decent results. A refractometer is a good choice for checking S.G.

Yeah, the temps this month have been a bit wacky so I haven't even plugged in my heater - working more to keep the tank temps down then trying to raise them.

Looking at a 225 gallon tank. Currently have a 135 so I'm wanting to upgrade size on the switch to saltwater.