Which white LED for algae scrubber

Jyetman

Active member
I have a bucket scrubber and all i can fit are standard socket bulbs. I have two CFL and a white LED 60 Watt which seems to be crap. Can someone help recommend a efficient brand bulb that grows algae. I cannot fit a PANEL GROW LIGHT (Its a bucket not a Refugium) and the socket size red/blue grow bulbs don't work very well.
 
Get a 6500k CFL
If its not growing with that then light is not the issue..

I have two CFLs one 125 Watt 2700K and a 100 Watt 3500K and one 60 Watt LED 2700K on a 11" X 12" Screen. The screen grows about 1.5 Cups of algae a week just trying to get more faster growth.
 
I have two CFLs one 125 Watt 2700K and a 100 Watt 3500K and one 60 Watt LED 2700K on a 11" X 12" Screen. The screen grows about 1.5 Cups of algae a week just trying to get more faster growth.

It's only going to grow as much as it's able with the amount of nutrients in the tank. Want more grow out feed more. ;)
 
I have two CFLs one 125 Watt 2700K and a 100 Watt 3500K and one 60 Watt LED 2700K on a 11" X 12" Screen. The screen grows about 1.5 Cups of algae a week just trying to get more faster growth.

Ok.. but they aren't 6500k ;)
You will do better with a bulb that isn't so yellow from my experience..

But yes.. the light may not be the only limiting factor..
 
What is the total system water volume?

How much are you feeding on an average daily basis?

11x12 is a huge screen, that could be part of the problem.

Water/tank conditions? (i.e. nutrient levels, tank algae issues, etc)

How many hours/day are you running the lights?

How close are the lights to the screen?

Pics?
 
Chaeto is limited more by 1). iron, 2). the mass of the ball, and lastly a long way after the first two 3). the nutrients available to it, than by lights. I agree that a daylight CFL bulb is more than enough.

If you are a regular water changer, then keep it up and look to add a bit of iron. If you are not a regular water changer, then start... it will help and there is no substitute. Breaking up the ball and keeping it loose and free will also help. A tight ball will stop growing. Sometimes, you need to pull the ball in half (give away the other half) to start exporting again.

In any case, the lights are the last place that I would look.
 
What is the total system water volume?

How much are you feeding on an average daily basis?

11x12 is a huge screen, that could be part of the problem.

Water/tank conditions? (i.e. nutrient levels, tank algae issues, etc)

How many hours/day are you running the lights?

How close are the lights to the screen?

Pics?
Its a single sided screen and I gave the wrong dimensions its actually 13 X 10 running a 80 Gallon reef tank. Not all lights are perfectly situated there isn't much room. I have four standard socket light bulbs 1st is a CFL (100Watt 3500K) its the only one centered about 3 to 4" from the screen. The other CFL (125Watt 2700K) is in a reflector angled toward the screen not centered. Two LEDs a (60Watt 3500K) and a mars hydro 24W LED Grow Light. The main pump I'm using is a rio 1700 which is 642 GPH pushing up at 2.5 feet. There is a mix of softies, LPS and 5 (3" to 5") fish, 3 (1" to 2") small fish one CB shrimp. In the morning I feed a pinch of flake and evenings I have refrigerated sour cream size container with 3 or 4 frozen cubes. I get about 3 to 4 feeding days out of that which is 1 full squirt from a turkey baster. I'm having to step up on the water changes because no matter what I do the water is still too dirty. Sorry can only provide links to pictures RC website won't post my pictures. Please don't laugh to hard this is really a mickey mouse project I put together I'm disabled and have to experiment with what I got money isn't growing on trees for me these days. The scrubber is built in a tall 17X14X9 trashcan which sits on top of my tank its all I can fit.


This is the top of the scrubber. I have the main rio pump connected to a PVC bar as to the DIY instructions the dermal slot wasn't made perfectly which is why I have that plastic mess I'm trying to increase and spread better water flow with those other smaller pumps.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w4zhhsfgkcttda5/IMG_5936.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ohche2za3066qc5/IMG_5931.JPG?dl=0


This pic shows the water flow coming out of the scrubber.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ydbj15bpu3y56hj/IMG_5935.JPG?dl=0


Looking through a peek hole mid-center. First pic shows screen to the left side second pic screen to the right. Sorry best I can do with these pictures.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8f9f5kwzuq6lu7w/IMG_5929.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8f9f5kwzuq6lu7w/IMG_5929.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cylweobb0h8uk7v/IMG_5932.JPG?dl=0

As you can see there is no practical way to remove the screen for cleaning. I have to reach into the scrubber and hand pull the algae off the best I can. The hair algae comes off very easily there is also grape coulerpa growing in a tight mass underneath. I can easily rip it off the screen and have a bare clean screen. I do have patches of algae here and there after each weekly cleaning.
 
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Here ya go (RC's image system is tricky)

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Yeah...that's pretty DIY!!

So first, it helps to call out CFL by the actual wattage, not the "equivalent" so that we're talking apples-to-apples. Which means those are probably 23W and 32W lamps.

Single sided: this is always less efficient, so throwing more light at it isn't likely to help

Not being able to remove and scrape the screen is problematic on many levels, but like you said, you have to do what you can with what you have.

Honestly, from the limited pics I see, you're growing a decent amount of algae.

I would be concerned about the salt creep on the lamps, I can see it in one of those pics and that will cause hot/cold spots on the lamp tube and they will be prone to shattering. You need to protect those, and keep them clean

Also you need to place dome or cone reflectors around those lamps to direct the light forward. With the lamp out in the open, you're losing a ton of intensity.

Fluorescent lamps (tube or curly CFL, etc) are all different combinations of phosphors depending on the manufacturer, so 2700K is not exactly the same from brand to brand. But, my advice is to still use 2700-3500K (Warm White) when using fluorescent.

For LED, you can use a full spectrum but using a grow lamp is going to be better - something with primarily 660nm Deep Red and very little of anything else - maybe some Royal Blue, Deep Violet, but I would stay away from lamps with heavy 630nm Red.

But going back to the basics: http://algaescrubber.zohosites.com/

http://algaescrubber.zohosites.com/planning-your-algae-scrubber.html

Starting with feeding, you're feeding on the level of about 1 cube/day, roughly. That would mean that technically, if this were a 2 sided waterfall, you would only need something like a 4x3 or 4x4 screen. Change that to one-sided and that's still only a 4x6 screen or maybe 6x6. Now...that is the "ideal" type of setup, where you have a nice even sheet of water, your screen is roughed up properly, lit directly with the right amount of light, etc...clicking on all cylinders.

Yours has a lot of fudge factors that you have to throw in there, so I wouldn't say that you're far off the mark. It's oversized, but the light is a mixture of various things, so the light levels are probably OK.

If you don't think you are getting very good growth, this could be due to other factors not related to the light.

Flow could be a factor - I can see that the pump is just discharging open and dumping on to the screen, so that's a bit unpredictable, and probably doesn't start out as a even sheet. This scrubber is probably more like a slanted scrubber with a point source for water, which is on the lower end of the efficiency curve.

Single sided reduces efficiency because the light can't penetrate as deep for as long (throughout the growth cycle) and thus you get shading, die-off, and detachment. So you have to increase the frequency of your harvests to account for that.

Detritus could be building up due to the fact that you can't remove the screen, this might not be helping either

But the bottom line is this: how does your tank look? How does your water test?

If these are OK, then don't worry about how much algae you are growing...it's doing the job.
 

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Sorry to hijack but i recently redid my rockscape and stupidly enough didnt cure the rocks well enough. Getting some GHA in the tank now with the scrubber still running. Bad idea to run some GFO?
 
Here ya go (RC's image system is tricky)

attachment.php


attachment.php


attachment.php


attachment.php


Yeah...that's pretty DIY!!

So first, it helps to call out CFL by the actual wattage, not the "equivalent" so that we're talking apples-to-apples. Which means those are probably 23W and 32W lamps.

Single sided: this is always less efficient, so throwing more light at it isn't likely to help

Not being able to remove and scrape the screen is problematic on many levels, but like you said, you have to do what you can with what you have.

Honestly, from the limited pics I see, you're growing a decent amount of algae.

I would be concerned about the salt creep on the lamps, I can see it in one of those pics and that will cause hot/cold spots on the lamp tube and they will be prone to shattering. You need to protect those, and keep them clean

Also you need to place dome or cone reflectors around those lamps to direct the light forward. With the lamp out in the open, you're losing a ton of intensity.

Fluorescent lamps (tube or curly CFL, etc) are all different combinations of phosphors depending on the manufacturer, so 2700K is not exactly the same from brand to brand. But, my advice is to still use 2700-3500K (Warm White) when using fluorescent.

For LED, you can use a full spectrum but using a grow lamp is going to be better - something with primarily 660nm Deep Red and very little of anything else - maybe some Royal Blue, Deep Violet, but I would stay away from lamps with heavy 630nm Red.

But going back to the basics: http://algaescrubber.zohosites.com/

http://algaescrubber.zohosites.com/planning-your-algae-scrubber.html

Starting with feeding, you're feeding on the level of about 1 cube/day, roughly. That would mean that technically, if this were a 2 sided waterfall, you would only need something like a 4x3 or 4x4 screen. Change that to one-sided and that's still only a 4x6 screen or maybe 6x6. Now...that is the "ideal" type of setup, where you have a nice even sheet of water, your screen is roughed up properly, lit directly with the right amount of light, etc...clicking on all cylinders.

Yours has a lot of fudge factors that you have to throw in there, so I wouldn't say that you're far off the mark. It's oversized, but the light is a mixture of various things, so the light levels are probably OK.

If you don't think you are getting very good growth, this could be due to other factors not related to the light.

Flow could be a factor - I can see that the pump is just discharging open and dumping on to the screen, so that's a bit unpredictable, and probably doesn't start out as a even sheet. This scrubber is probably more like a slanted scrubber with a point source for water, which is on the lower end of the efficiency curve.

Single sided reduces efficiency because the light can't penetrate as deep for as long (throughout the growth cycle) and thus you get shading, die-off, and detachment. So you have to increase the frequency of your harvests to account for that.

Detritus could be building up due to the fact that you can't remove the screen, this might not be helping either

But the bottom line is this: how does your tank look? How does your water test?

If these are OK, then don't worry about how much algae you are growing...it's doing the job.


Wow thank you very informative. I will try as you suggest and do more frequent cleanings. Would this mean change from 7 days to like every 5 days? When cleaning pulling off the algae do i remove the small patches left over or leave more random patches? When I pull off that macro algae it practically leaves a bare screen. What brand CFL bulbs or LED full spectrum bulbs would you recommend using? To solve the salt creep on CFL bulbs would like to switch completely over to LED. Right now I'm running my lights from 4:30 PM (ON) to 12:30 PM (OFF)
 
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Sorry to hijack but i recently redid my rockscape and stupidly enough didnt cure the rocks well enough. Getting some GHA in the tank now with the scrubber still running. Bad idea to run some GFO?

It depends, what are your phosphates at?

Wow thank you very informative. I will try as you suggest and do more frequent cleanings. Would this mean change from 7 days to like every 5 days? When cleaning pulling off the algae do i remove the small patches left over or leave more random patches? When I pull off that macro algae it practically leaves a bare screen. What brand CFL bulbs or LED full spectrum bulbs would you recommend using? To solve the salt creep on CFL bulbs would like to switch completely over to LED. Right now I'm running my lights from 4:30 PM (ON) to 12:30 PM (OFF)

7 days is still OK, can do 5 if you want

The bare screen is a sign that you are getting light blocking, it's also an effect of a single-sided and slanted screen. That setup just isn't very good for adhesion. Algae tends to (seems to) adapt to the conditions, so if it can stay in place easily, it doesn't "anchor" as well. So I wouldn't worry about that too much.

There is not particular brand of lamp I have a preference towards, there's a pretty minimal difference IMO.
 
It depends, what are your phosphates at?



7 days is still OK, can do 5 if you want

The bare screen is a sign that you are getting light blocking, it's also an effect of a single-sided and slanted screen. That setup just isn't very good for adhesion. Algae tends to (seems to) adapt to the conditions, so if it can stay in place easily, it doesn't "anchor" as well. So I wouldn't worry about that too much.

There is not particular brand of lamp I have a preference towards, there's a pretty minimal difference IMO.
Was reading your answers in another post about how LEDs being much stronger can penetrate deeper then CFLs would that help reduce some of the light blocking?
 
yes that is true, but it also can mean it's easier to cause photosaturation - that's when you have too much light intensity compared to the nutrients.

There are hundreds of LED lamps to choose from, and they definitely are not all the same (especially when it comes to being waterproof).

Before you go there though, the question is still: how is your tank/nutrients/etc? Basically, is the scrubber working well as-is?
 
yes that is true, but it also can mean it's easier to cause photosaturation - that's when you have too much light intensity compared to the nutrients.

There are hundreds of LED lamps to choose from, and they definitely are not all the same (especially when it comes to being waterproof).

Before you go there though, the question is still: how is your tank/nutrients/etc? Basically, is the scrubber working well as-is?

I'm still battling high nutrients so any tweaking to improve performance is what I'm looking for. I've tried several LED bulbs and learned that quickly many are not very waterproof was a waste of money. The one I'm currently using GE has lasted the longest so far over 2 months and was the cheapest under $5 bucks.
 
yes that is true, but it also can mean it's easier to cause photosaturation - that's when you have too much light intensity compared to the nutrients.

There are hundreds of LED lamps to choose from, and they definitely are not all the same (especially when it comes to being waterproof).

Before you go there though, the question is still: how is your tank/nutrients/etc? Basically, is the scrubber working well as-is?

Sorry to bother you I have another problem. Ever since I increased more flow on the screen it fixed the dead spots but only grape caulerpa is growing no hair algae. It must be from the faster flow rate. Hair algae seemed to take hold in the slower flow areas and spread out to the entire screen. What can I do to fix this beside rough up the screen more maybe leave more algae patches or put the smaller pumps on a timer and slowly increase the flow rate when the hair algae takes hold any suggestions? Until the screen is working again would it hurt to do small water changes daily?
 
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PWCs never hurt anything

I take it that you have caulerpa somewhere else in the system intentionally?

No it was a hitchhiker from years ago it started out in the scrubber and slowly spread to the DT tried to remove when I saw it shoot runners but today its grown into a real monster. My new 3" one spot foxface is chewing on it not sure if he is really eating it or what.

My hope now is to try and get the caulerpa to explode in growth on the scrubber screen to out compete the growth in the DT.
 
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I have 4 small AUX pumps helping my main rio 1700 now wondering if its too much flow. Its been over a week since I totally cleaned the screen nearly bare. The patches of left over algae turned yellow and didn't grow back accept for the caulerpa. Not one strain of hair algae on the screen now. If you saw those pictures the screen was covered in hair algae. What if I put the small 4 aux pumps on a timer run every other half hour would this help?
 
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