white discoloration on cleaner wrasse?

[expo703]

My cleaner wrasse has been in QT for 6 weeks. I used copper in the system he is still eating today and very active..but yesterday I noticed this on him.. any ideas what it is? I was planning on putting him in DT in next two weeks..

sorry hard to photograph since he is so active..but its a white patch on his black line on one side.











could this be a bacteria/fungus? not sure what to think I have cupermine/melafix/prazi thats all the meds I have.

 

[expo703]

Looks like White stringy "poop"
Rsearch:
a) internal parasites (parasite)

also


Open sores or lesions on body
Research:
a) Marine Flukes (parasite)
b) Brooklynella (parasite)
c) Bacterial Infection in marine fish
d) Uronema

So I just dosed prazipro again...hopefully this helps any other suggestions the white spot is worse and looks like open wound now.. his gut is also fatter and I did notice some stringy white poop..

since he has open wound should I also treat melafix ontop of prazipro treatment?

 

[krullshards]

I lost a new Christmas Wrasse with just about the same symptoms you mention. A white patch on one side, what looked like stringy white poop.

I had just gotten him and when the symptoms showed up he was dead within 2 days.

I figured internal parasites. I tried prazi, just to do SOMETHING, but he was too far gone by then. His condition deteriorated rapidly within 24 hours. You can see my post on this forum about the Christmas wrasse.

With how fast it all happened I wonder if it wasn't brook. I didn't think internal parasites would cause deterioration that fast.

 

[expo703]

I lost a new Christmas Wrasse with just about the same symptoms you mention. A white patch on one side, what looked like stringy white poop.

I had just gotten him and when the symptoms showed up he was dead within 2 days.

I figured internal parasites. I tried prazi, just to do SOMETHING, but he was too far gone by then. His condition deteriorated rapidly within 24 hours. You can see my post on this forum about the Christmas wrasse.

With how fast it all happened I wonder if it wasn't brook. I didn't think internal parasites would cause deterioration that fast.

So odd.. I had 2 fish in QT as my tank is fallow for over 6 months they survived velvet too.. I decided to purchase a christmas wrasse same thing happened but no white spot on him he was eating fine for like a week then BAM he was breathing heavy and had a fat looking gut..didn't really see white stringy poop..2 days later dead.

Now my cleaner wrasse about 5 days later shows the white spot..1 day later the spot is worse and looks like a cut.. and he has a fat gut and white stringy poop 1 day later.....

i'm scared for may anthias i did dose prazi and my tank has copper but very low as I just finished like 3 weeks+ with .5 ppm of copper to make sure I was done with velvet...

Can someone shed light on what killed them? Internal AND external? I did dose prazi pro when I get the first xmass wrasse 1 tbl spoon for 20 gal.. as soon as I saw signs of it on my cleaner I did like another 1.5 tbl spoons... hope my anthias lives at this point what should I do? :headwally::headwally::headwally::furious::furious:

 

[Deinonych]

It's either bacterial or Uronema. I would lean toward the latter based on timelines. Formalin dips followed by a transfer into a clean QT would ensure the parasite is eliminated.

 

[expo703]

It's either bacterial or Uronema. I would lean toward the latter based on timelines. Formalin dips followed by a transfer into a clean QT would ensure the parasite is eliminated.

What should I do now I only have copper,melafix,prazi on hand and only 1 QT with 1 anthias in it?

 

[ThRoewer]

My vote would be on bacterial (Vibrio). It is very fast and easily be confused with Uronema. Both usually start out from little injuries and grow from there. To be on the safe side, I would treat against both.

BTW: copper is a poor choice of "medication" as it diminishes the fish's immune system and makes them more vulnerable against bacterial or protozoan infections. The only parasite copper kills reliably is Cryptocaryon, and against that one we have better cures.

 

[expo703]

My vote would be on bacterial (Vibrio). It is very fast and easily be confused with Uronema. Both usually start out from little injuries and grow from there. To be on the safe side, I would treat against both.

BTW: copper is a poor choice of "medication" as it diminishes the fish's immune system and makes them more vulnerable against bacterial or protozoan infections. The only parasite copper kills reliably is Cryptocaryon, and against that one we have better cures.

What should I treat my anthias that is in the QT tank now with then... I just put in 1.5 teaspoons of prazi in 20 gal qt yesterday..

 

[ThRoewer]

PraziPro does nothing against Uronema or Vibrio.

The best course of action would be to set up another clean QT. Once that QT is ready give the surviving fish a formalin bath and transfer them to this new tank (tear the othe one down and sterilize everything in it).

Do not use a net to catch the fish - use a plastic or glass container, ideally a square or rectangular one. The last thing you want is to cause abrasions on the fish's skin that may become entryways for the pathogen.

How to proceed from there depends on what symptoms the fish show and how much of a risk you are willing to take.
Against Vibrio you would need a broadband antibiotic that targets gram negative bacteria.

Against Uronema you could give CP a shot - I would go this route if it is more prophylactic and the fish are not showing symptoms. If the fish show symptoms you may need to double the dosage. The issue here is that some fish can't be treated with CP (deadly for pipefish, seahorses, wrasses).

A more bulletproof method against Uronema would be daily formalin baths followed by tank transfers. I would do at least 5 transfers. But that's a lot more work intensive and more stressful to the fish. It also can't be used once the fish have open wounds. In case of an active infection the tank water may need to be dosed with Methylene blue and an likely also an antibiotic. Especially Methylene blue is not really good for fish either.

BTW: the bloating rather goes against Uronema and points more towards something bacterial.

 

[expo703]

PraziPro does nothing against Uronema or Vibrio.

The best course of action would be to set up another clean QT. Once that QT is ready give the surviving fish a formalin bath and transfer them to this new tank (tear the othe one down and sterilize everything in it).

Do not use a net to catch the fish - use a plastic or glass container, ideally a square or rectangular one. The last thing you want is to cause abrasions on the fish's skin that may become entryways for the pathogen.

How to proceed from there depends on what symptoms the fish show and how much of a risk you are willing to take.
Against Vibrio you would need a broadband antibiotic that targets gram negative bacteria.

Against Uronema you could give CP a shot - I would go this route if it is more prophylactic and the fish are not showing symptoms. If the fish show symptoms you may need to double the dosage. The issue here is that some fish can't be treated with CP (deadly for pipefish, seahorses, wrasses).

A more bulletproof method against Uronema would be daily formalin baths followed by tank transfers. I would do at least 5 transfers. But that's a lot more work intensive and more stressful to the fish. It also can't be used once the fish have open wounds. In case of an active infection the tank water may need to be dosed with Methylene blue and an likely also an antibiotic. Especially Methylene blue is not really good for fish either.

BTW: the bloating rather goes against Uronema and points more towards something bacterial.

Well I don't have a another QT - and have some amazon parts(airpump,stones,heaters) coming in mail soon for TTM with 5gal buckets i was going to use on new fish. I don't have formalin..so far no signs of sickness for the anthias its only one fish in my QT.. should I transfer him to 5 gal bucket let my 20 gal QT air dry for 72 hours then transfer him back? If its bacteria is it contagious and I would have to buy formalin or anti-bionics?

I just dosed - Melafix. Anti-Bacterial Fish & Coral Remedy: An all natural fish & coral treatment with tea tree extract (Melaleuca). Melafix® Marine rapidly repairs damaged fins, ulcers and open wounds, and also reverses coral degradation.

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_viewi...Dg3JfO0iXo9M-dAEfee8CTEX_6Md0Dbm_4BoCbe_w_wcB

 

[Deinonych]

Melafix doesn't treat anything IME. You need a proper antibiotic like Furan-2 that specifically targets Vibrio sp. bacteria.

 

[expo703]

Melafix doesn't treat anything IME. You need a proper antibiotic like Furan-2 that specifically targets Vibrio sp. bacteria.

Okay thx

 

[krullshards]

So, I have formalin on the way. I realized I probably should keep it on-hand. I guess I need to get chloraquine phosphate as well...

I've seen metronidazole at Petsmart, but where can one get Furan-2? And should we keep both on-hand or will one handle most anything?

 

[ThRoewer]

Formalin is something you should have on hand all the time.
I would also strongly recommend to give every new fish a formalin bath before they even go into the QT. Certain parasites and pathogens you want to stop at your doorstep.

CP (NLS Ick-Shield Powder) is good to have on hand too, but I would be concerned about the shelf life.
Same goes with antibiotics. Having them on hand is good but after a year or two they may need to be replaced, whether they have been used up or not - worse than having no antibiotics is having ineffective expired antibiotics.

 

[krullshards]

Oh man, I came across this rant from the wetwebmedia guys about Cleaner Wrasses..

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/labroide.htm

Thought you might find it interesting.

 

[expo703]

Oh man, I came across this rant from the wetwebmedia guys about Cleaner Wrasses..

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/labroide.htm

Thought you might find it interesting.

I had mine for almost 6 months he ate everything inspected other fish and was very active one of my favs..

 

[Deinonych]

Oh man, I came across this rant from the wetwebmedia guys about Cleaner Wrasses..

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/labroide.htm

Thought you might find it interesting.

Very interesting, and I tend to agree with the author, who also wrote "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist."

 

[snorvich]

It's either bacterial or Uronema. I would lean toward the latter based on timelines. Formalin dips followed by a transfer into a clean QT would ensure the parasite is eliminated.

I agree.

 

[snorvich]

PraziPro does nothing against Uronema or Vibrio.

The best course of action would be to set up another clean QT. Once that QT is ready give the surviving fish a formalin bath and transfer them to this new tank (tear the othe one down and sterilize everything in it).

Do not use a net to catch the fish - use a plastic or glass container, ideally a square or rectangular one. The last thing you want is to cause abrasions on the fish's skin that may become entryways for the pathogen.

How to proceed from there depends on what symptoms the fish show and how much of a risk you are willing to take.
Against Vibrio you would need a broadband antibiotic that targets gram negative bacteria.

Against Uronema you could give CP a shot - I would go this route if it is more prophylactic and the fish are not showing symptoms. If the fish show symptoms you may need to double the dosage. The issue here is that some fish can't be treated with CP (deadly for pipefish, seahorses, wrasses).

A more bulletproof method against Uronema would be daily formalin baths followed by tank transfers. I would do at least 5 transfers. But that's a lot more work intensive and more stressful to the fish. It also can't be used once the fish have open wounds. In case of an active infection the tank water may need to be dosed with Methylene blue and an likely also an antibiotic. Especially Methylene blue is not really good for fish either.

BTW: the bloating rather goes against Uronema and points more towards something bacterial.

Excellent suggestions.