Why keeping difficult species is a good idea...

reef_research

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This seems the appropriate forum to begin discussion on such a topic.

Keeping organisms of any kind within a domestic setting is one of the ultimate intellectual challenges. Not only does the owner of the creature have to provide the basic needs of the organism, but also must take countless steps to ensure the organism does not interfere negatively with either its owner or environment. These efforts require significant skill in both foresight and planning, which depends on an accurate assessment of the potential risk involved.
Because the majority of domestic animals behave in a fashion that is largely unpredictable (mimicking chaos for our purposes), creating a system to house and care for the animal largely depends on our ability to predict variations in the system. As the organisms require increasingly more complex systems to support them in a domestic setting, the complexity and points of error increase in the overall system. For example, a pet rock requires significantly less foresight and planning than a Burmese python. The capacity for error in the care of these pets also follows the same pattern. Infinitely more problems can occur when housing the python than would be found in a lesser system like that of the pet rock.
In terms of a system, the complexity is twofold. Primarily, the owner must procure the resources needed, and deliver them in the correct amount and at the correct intervals. Secondly, the owner must take preventative steps in the event that any point in the animal’s housing system fails. While this may well seem like common knowledge, there are some interesting conclusions that can be drawn from this realization.
The first of these is the mentally-taxing aspect of pet-keeping. Much like people play chess or assemble jigsaw puzzles, pet-keeping offers a similar (and more advanced) challenge. Proving that one has the capacity to care for a complex system (pet-keeping) is an excellent method of “exercising” the mind, and can provide valuable insights into the maintenance of other systems.
Additionally, the habit offers a scientific value as well, depending on the level of care required by the organism. For example, let us state that to predict and maintain a system, one must understand substantial portions of the system. Building on this assumption, let us also state that the system for pet care includes the environment in which the organism dwells. Based on these two conclusions, we can then say that to successfully maintain the organism, we must also understand significant portions of its environment.
Since a large percentage of organisms kept within domestic settings require conditions that mimic their natural environment in order to thrive, care of these organism requires an understanding of the environment from which they originated. However, in common domestic animals such as dogs and cats, this is less apparent. The species have been raised in domestic conditions for enough generations that their care does not reflect as much on their original environment. But for species that have not been domesticated, the challenge for understanding their environment is still quite relevant.
Let us demonstrate the concepts outlined above using an example. Since we know that the above benefits depend to a degree on the complexity of the care system for the organism, it would be useful to select an organism which requires a fairly complex support system in order to survive within the domestic setting. What sort of creature might require a complex system in order to survive within our homes? How about a coral reef ecosystem? This provides a suitable model because both the “organism” (which is a web of species that cannot be easily maintained when separated) and its life-support system are highly complex.
In order to validate the earlier conclusions, we must prove that maintaining our model “organism” ( a coral reef ecosystem) is both a mentally taxing affair, in addition to requiring a significant understanding of the organism’s natural environment. Most reef keepers may readily agree with the former. The latter is slightly more difficult to demonstrate, though it is abundantly clear that the organism’s environment is significantly understood. Whatever progress and success that came about from keeping these complex systems came from a careful observation and understanding of their environment.
Therefore, because these principles have been demonstrated with a model organism, we can conclude that they may be accurate (at least for the model organism). If we assume they are correct, then we can also say that the pursuit towards keeping increasingly more “difficult” species within domestic settings will eventually yield a higher understanding of their environment.
Because of this, hobbyists and researchers alike should not be discouraged from attempting to maintain difficult species, as long as they demonstrate serious intent and the capacity to construct an appropriate maintenance system. As highly controversial as this conclusion may seem, it is still worth discussing as a legitimate concept.
Now, does this mean that every beginner should immediately go out and purchase that blue ribbon eel on their first try? Of course not. The idea only states that the serious pursuit of designing a care system for “difficult” organisms is a worthwhile endeavor.

Why would anyone post something this abstract? First, the forum acts debate stage where the weaknesses of an argument can be pointed out. Secondly, if the concept is correct, it serves as useful justification for the more contraversial parts of the hobby.
 
I fully agree with what was said above. However I feel that it was rather long winded.

So that more people will see this AND read it let me paraphrase:

#1 Keeping hard to keep species is a mental challenge.

#2 It provides scientifically valid information.

#3 It helps the species become easier to maintain (if nobody tries then no headway is made.)


If I missed anything be sure to add it. Hope this helps get more replies. :)
 
Thanks for distilling that down for me - long day and its late - my eyes are burning and I couldn't read all that.

I would add one caution - very often, people try to reinvent the wheel because they do not realize they are covering ground that has been fully covered before. This leads to needless animal deaths, remember, it may not be new - just new to you!

Jay
 
Two contentions-

I can't think of any information that has been learned by hobbyists that then went on to reveal something more general about how the reefs work. Now there are certainly a huge number of experiments that are performed in aquaria but that's a different story entirely.

A lot of hobbyists, including those keeping "advanced" species or using "advanced" methods, are pretty clueless when it comes to the state of the science. They have no clue what an actual reef is like, much less how to mimic one. A lot of what's done in the hobby is based more on what's worked in the past rather than what the science suggests we aught to be doing- the concept of the "ideal temp" and the necessity of stability are two examples close to my heart. There are also a lot of "cutting edge" methods that have just a sliver of science behind them and a whole lot of unsubstantiated speculation- AA or vitamin C dosing come to mind here.

One place where I would agree that hobbyists have contributed is in applying (mostly pre-existing) breeding techniques to new species. Even though the techniques themselves aren't necessarily new, the knowledge of how to combine them to achieve success with new species takes a lot of work and the people who have put in the time deserve lots of credit.

Another contribution hobbyists have made is in providing a market to drive product development. Scientists need this stuff too, but there aren't enough of us in need of things like tunable lighting to drive the development of LED light arrays. Whereas I used to have to try to jury rig an old water bath or use a giant mini-fridge size heater/chiller/controller for temp experiments, now I can get purpose built aquarium equipment that's more reliable, more portable, and easier to reconfigure.
 
It was only a few decades ago that a persons was considered sucessfull at a keeping a marine species considered difficult if it was still alive after a few months in a home or even a researchers aquarium. Now some of those species are being repeatedly being tank bred and raised and are being widely sold and kept by hobbyists and researchers alike.

There are also many advances being made due to non professional, or call them "hobbyists," working and thinking outside the box that often hinders many professional researchers both private and government as well as learned institution's professors, researchers and grad students from accomplishing a whole lot.
 
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There are also many advances being made due to non professional, or call them "hobbyists," working and thinking outside the box that often hinders many professional researchers both private and government as well as learned institution's professors, researchers and grad students from accomplishing a whole lot.
Examples?
 
for me keeping hard corals is like a game, a playstation live game
with no finish and you are more interesting in keep good corals
 
Re: Why keeping difficult species is a good idea...

Because of this, hobbyists and researchers alike should not be discouraged from attempting to maintain difficult species, as long as they demonstrate serious intent and the capacity to construct an appropriate maintenance system. As highly controversial as this conclusion may seem, it is still worth discussing as a legitimate concept.
Now, does this mean that every beginner should immediately go out and purchase that blue ribbon eel on their first try? Of course not. The idea only states that the serious pursuit of designing a care system for “difficult” organisms is a worthwhile endeavor.

Conceptually, you bet. Practically, there may be issues. A way to get the animals to those who have serious intent and capacity but not to those getting one on a lark might be helpful, but I might be flayed for even mentioning such a thing (which is impossible at this time anyway never-mind being fraught with issues). :D
 
Hobbyist have the capacity to glean good husbandry skills and to successfully keep un-keep-able corals. Yes, the, "SPS were once un-keep-able" argument comes up often. I agree with Greenbean, that just because you have never tried it, doesn't mean it's never been tried before. I do feel hobbyist can move forward in keeping these corals, but only after, it's thoroughly researched and people are not repeating lessons already learned. There are some serious hobbyist out there that are taking these corals to the next level, but those folks are dedicating their whole reef tanks to try and keep those corals. Way to often a hobbyist sees a "Carnation Coral" for sale and they think, I can keep that coral, just by doing X Y or Z to keep it. Then the coral is placed in there main SPS dominated tanks, where in a matter of time they perish. Most people don't want to keep a reef tank specifically for a certain species. We feel we can place it in our display tanks and maybe feed it more than our other corals. Reality is, these corals need a tank set up just for them and then other accessories are also needed. Funding a specific reef tank can get expensive and to properly do this, you would need to change only one variable at time, then observe. Most don't have the $$ or time to do this, so more times then not, that pretty "Carnation Coral", will just melt in our tanks.

Dan
 
I think the ease of keeping most corals now is becasue of the advances in technology not trial and error by hobbists. No hobbists that I know of are good enough record keepers to have anything they do considered sceintific research. Aslo I don't know about you, but no company has ever contacted me for my opinion about equipment. I really do not think some hard to keep or impossible to keep critters should be sold. Certain critters should be banned from collection. There are a lot of thing that are almost endangered that are still collected and sold in this hobby. Also basket stars, many sea stars, carnation corals, and a few fish are almost impossible to keep a live. A lot of people say wow those are beautiful or cool I'll buy one. It then just dies later on. I agree that sceintists should try to keep things alive and if successful information should be filtered down to hobbists. Many beautiful things have been over collected and have hurt their wild populations where they can thrive.
 
I think this is a good topic. I feel like the amount of experimentation has gone down in the hobby. Everyone just wants to do what is safe. I can understand to some extent, but without people aspiring to achieve more difficult things, the hobby could stagnate. Dificult fish and difficult corals for the adventurous or experienced hobbiest give new people a reason to stay in hobby, a goal they can one day achieve. Imagine if the most amazing tank was full of some button polyps, leathers and a few damsels. Those insane tanks with the risky stuff serve as a goal, even if sublimanly for people.
 
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