Worst LFS prices possibly ever!

E-A-G-L-E-S

E-A-G-L-E-S

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Am I alone in thinking the reading/allentown,bethlehem, easton corridor and surrounding ares need a LFS other than S.F. so we have 'somewhere' to go during the week?

Stopped by 'Shear heaven', this afternoon in Allentown, here's two prices that might blow your mind....they made me turn around and walk out immediately, laughing the whole way.

Price for '50g Bag'
I.O. - $28(S.F. $11.50)
Reef Crystals - $30(S.F. $13.50)

Price for a 'Bucket'
I.O. - $60


This is rediculous and if it wasn't for S.F. I would be at the bank talking to my old friend about a business loan:mad2:
 
Matt I have always thought the same thing!

For during the week supply stuff I usually just do the drive to Lancaster. It would be great to have someplace closer.

Carl
 
I've been wanting a place for 2+ years.....funny thing is, i'm in a perfect position in my life to start a venture just like this, wish there was a way to guage interest. But S.F. is packed every weekend, so It would seem there are plenty of potential customers?

Also wouldn't mind it if this store would be a little more sps driven(inlcuding high end equip.)...since for that you have to go online or from vendors or fellow reefers :(
 
The problem with most LFS is that they really can not compete with online prices because of the buying power of online retailers and drop shipping.

S.F. has that kind of business because they are clearly linked to Champion and probably are backed or quietly supported by that wholesaler.

I know the battles a LFS has to go through to get and keep customers as I have worked in a few, managed one, and ran one for a short time. Without customers willingness to pay higher prices for the overhead, convenience, and selection it is hard to make a good go of it. This is why LFS are hard to come by. TFP is a good store as well as S.F. but they really make it hard for the little guy to compete. Even up my way, some customers were more willing to order online and pay shipping, or drive to Lancaster to buy certain goods than to pay a little more for the item because they thought they were saving big bucks when it is just hurting their local economy and the livelihood of their LFS.

Sad truth but that is the way it is. The worst thing about it is regardless who you shop from the wholesaler is the one making out on top in all cases. In addition to customers making it hard, the wholesalers make it very difficult for the mom and pop operations because of the smaller orders and less price breaks for their purchases.

Just my opinion but I think that many others with my experiences as well as other hobbyists can see my view.
 
The part about lfs' that I always think is crazy, is that very few of them go out of their way to keep customers. I contacted a few lfs' about trying to get an achilles tang, and was told that I would be put on a list. Everytime I'm put on this "list" I've never been contacted. Then a month or two later I'll go to the lfs and see the same thing I wanted there at the store. I guess they lost the list....:rolleyes:
 
Hey all, I just received a PM from someone concerned and upset with my explanation above. For clarification I will post the email and my response as to not confuse the rest of the world.

I hope that this clears things up a bit. If you have any other questions feel free to post them here as PMing me is not the best way to express your opinion about a topic that is being discussed. I am more than willing to discuss anything reef related on here and openly too.

Here is the PM.




Greetings mystery reefer,

I am sorry you have not understood my explanation. I am willing to help clear things up. I am currently in college and well versed in business. Champion may or may not have an ability to help with livestock prices. They do have connections with wholesalers and other industry professionals to help a business they support and may actually have a hand in. The facts are that some of the employees and/or owner(s) of said LFS are either still are employees or were employees of Champion supply. Thus my explanation for making prices cheaper for said LFS.

I hope that this clears things up a bit. Sorry if not.

thanks,

Rick


geckotail wrote on 03/15/2007 03:34 PM:
your comments are really stupid. how does champion make prices cheaper on livestock? did you go to college? sorry if not.
Click to expand...
 
Very eloquent Rick... though after reading the PM, I would of thought a simple "Oh yeah?" would of sufficed. lol.
 
Yea that thought had crossed my mind, but the further explanation and public re-examination of the first post was necessary so that other ill thought attempts to slam or criticize me and my opinion through PMing would not happen. I rather scream or yell(discuss) in public. Don't you agree?

Time to do some more discussing... Prepare yourself, it may be long.

I also want to make it clear that I have visited S.F. and liked their selection, customer service, and pricing. It is an asset to its community as well. I just wanted to point out some things that contribute to it's success and the fact that others clearly fail or yet others that have been barely making it because of the clear price differences regardless of whether they are live goods or dry goods.

Another thing that should be pointed out is that if a LFS only makes sales in their live goods department most of them fail rather quickly. It is the dry goods section that pays the bills and takes up most of the capital in a LFS. Live Stock dies or it is sold quickly in most cases. Yes any LFS can sell living organisms cheaply but most choose not to do so as they are not selling enough dry goods to do so. They just have to make up the difference somewhere to stay afloat.

In instances where the two goods are so vastly different in price in a LFS it is because most of their customers do only live purchases. Where their goods whether live or dry are similarly priced, they have customers who purchase a balanced purchase overall. Thus prices are competitive and good for customers which keeps them coming back.

These are just a few circumstances that I point out and there are many others or combinations of circumstances that contribute to price too.

I hope that my opinions and views are of a collegiate level and satisfy any prerequisites that I am unaware of for posting here on Reef Central.
 
Don't feel bad Rick. You are not alone. I was just accused of being illiterate on another post. :)
It kills me when you have people responding in all lower case letters, little to no punctuation, and/or grammatical errors and they want to be taken seriously.
And then they have the gall to call you stupid and question your educational degree? I don't know...some people are a mystery.
 
LOL, I don't feel bad at all. I know when it comes to word jousting, I am pretty good and I can get a point across without using words like stupid, uneducated, or using PMing as a way to say something ignorant to another person. I can do it without being mean and in a desirable fashion.

I have noticed that those individuals don't like public discussion when they disagree and when you bring it up on the thread related to their PM, they don't seem to see the post you have put up or just don't reply.

In any case, the point was made and has been cleared up on this end. We stand together! You are not illiterate and well educated too.

Thanks for the concern and I will see you at the swap!
 
Hey All. I agree it is very difficult for mom and pop stores to make a go of it in certain cases. I think many of these people get into the business thinking there is BIG BUCKS to be made. The problem is they go so far into debt to start the store it is very difficult to crawl out. I own a small LFS myself. I was told when I started, to get a place "in town" as I wouldn't receive the walk ins where I reside. Instead of undergoing the $1500 a month in rent as well as many other small fees to rent a place, I decided to start it out of my garage. I have very little overhead and can therefore keep my prices reasonable. I have an ever growing list of weekly customers and have grown to double the inventory we started with. I admit many people that do stop in think I am out of my mind, until they see my stock. Many say they thought I would have a dozen tanks and a few bags of food for sale but are very surprised to see 100+ tanks stocked with Fresh and Saltwater and a fair amount of dry goods on hand. It is very expensive to run a store of any size, so I now understand the reasons the prices seem so high in an LFS. While it is hard to compete with on-line prices, it can be done. After you figure in the cost of shipping, I can supply most things at a lower cost. Take it easy on the LFS, while some are rediculously priced, take a look at their monthly overhead and it might be more in perspective. Take Care and God Bless, Peter
 
I only know of one store that dealt primarily in live stock and stayed afloat...but to do so they eventually started selling koi and breeding love birds to sell online. I don't know if he's still in business (I don't live near there anymore) but he always had good livestock and would feed fish and such while you were there so you could only buy what you knew was eating.

They generally kept very few corals in stock...the key word was "in stock"...locals new his delivery schedule and bought stuff as soon as it came in. The store was smaller than my living room but it was all he needed.

Social, helpfull, and knew that every customer was the customer keeping him open.

He did start getting into custom built filtration and I've owned two of them so I'm sure that helped him stay open as well.....not my 2 purchases of course...I mean the fact that he sold them at all :).

It's a tough business..anytime you have live creatures in the mail you have to deal with dead specimens and disgruntled patrons, etc...no thanks. If I get my system back up to where I want it..I'll be doing nothing but frag sales at swaps....and maybe clown breeding if I get bored. :)

--Fizz
 
I Agree Fizz. If you take care of your customers and do your best to sell quality stock, it certainly helps keep them coming in. I go to NJ every Sunday to hand pick all our fish and Corals from our wholesaler. By doing so I can get healthier fish and Corals and lose far less than if I were bringing them in via Airport. My store is only 700 sq. ft. but like you said, people generally stop in on Wednesday (the first day of the week we are open) and grab up alot of the new stuff that I bring in on Sunday. I also do alot of special order for my customers. My wholesaler is very good about getting in stuff for them and it isn't all that much hassle. I hear SOO many people tell me they have ben promised by other stores to get fish and never end up getting them, I let them know that there is no guarantee but I will try. Usually I have it for them in two weeks or less. That seems to go a million miles with many of my customers and doesn't take all that long to do. I am still doing this for the LOVE of doing it, hopefully I will keep that as long as I am able to stay in business and stay afloat. Take Care and God Bless, Peter
 
Peter:

You are obviously doing the right things. Recognizing the limitations and working on the customer end of things.

Good job. Where are you located ?

sanjay.
 
Directions to the store located just 5 miles off Interstate 81.Take exit 223 "New Milford". At bottom of exit take a left. Go about 1/4 mile to next stop sign. Take left onto Rt. 11, continue approx. 1 1/3 mile. On right will be signs for 706 to Montrose. Take right across bridge. Travel about 2.4 miles till you see signs for P & C Tropical Fish. Follow signs to our store phone no. -(570) 278-9747
 
The only special order I ever asked for was a Red Sea-Powder Blue Tang...this was YEARS ago, but even that dealer I worked with in NJ couldn't get it...but I will say....I never came into his store and saw one for sale either. :)

--Fizz
 
So far I have only had a few requests and I've done my best to fill them. It's pretty satisfying to have the people stop in and I show them the fish or coral they have been searching for with no success. Some of the people are like a little kid getting their first bike. It's very neat to see the reaction on their faces. Hopefully I will be able to continue doing this for many years to come. And unlike many stores that started small, I hope I never get to a point where it's just a job. After 20+ years of breeding Africans I am still very enthusiastic about spawning a new variety so I doubt my love for the business will ever go away. If anyone has a "SPECIAL" fish or coral they want, give me a shout. I'll do my best to help ya out. Take Care and happy reefing, Peter
 
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