Xenia/blue anthelia died during blackout?

[Gopilosaurus]

I swear, my tank does the exact opposite of what should happen.

After upgrading my lights to 4x 54 watt Aquatic Life a couple weeks ago, I had a great hair algae and cyano bloom in my 55. I did slowly remove layers of screen and have white lights on for 5 hours with blue on 1.5 hours before and after.

After lots of reading to make sure corals should not be affected, I decided to do the 3 day blackout. Well, I didn't even get to 48 hours. I looked in the tank and my fish were gasping for air, the blue anthelia and xenias looked dead (not just closed up sleeping but dead dead.) The water is "bacteria bloom" cloudy.

I added another power head close to the surface to get more gas exchange going. I also had my skimmer running as wet as possible- the cup wasn't full but was very dark and stinky.

Tank has been up for a year ammonia is now at .25 ppm (Probably from dying corals), no nitrite or nitrate. Added AmQuel. Phosphate is at 0. pH at 8.2 as usual, but tested after aeration was increased.

My last w/c (6 gallons) was Thursday night before putting up the plastic for the blackout.

The algae/cyano look completely unaffected so...what the heck?

Inhabitants: 2 ocellaris, 1 domino damsel, xenia, clove polyp, green star polyp, candy cane, blue anthelia, ricordea, mushrooms, kenya tree, lots of snails and hermits.

 

[raybyrne67]

I would start with a water change to try and bring down that ammonia.

 

[Gopilosaurus]

I'm working on it. I don't have space to have a store of pre-mixed salt water so it's a slow go...

 

[Gopilosaurus]

I think I'll buy new salt in the morning (stores are closed). My salt is clumpy...I'm reading some places that that could be the issue...though I don't understand why? I have Instant Ocean.

 

[Maxxumless]

Salt gets clumpy when exposed to humidity - it's normal.

When people upgrade their lights to a stronger type they almost always see some algae/diatom/cyano growth. It was always there, just didn't have enough light to kick in. This is pretty normal and it's advised when upgrading lights to only turn them on for only a few hours a day until you're sure algae is under control.

Fish will also gasp when their gills are hurting/burning. It's just a guess, but I think you probably already had high nutrients in the tank (thus the algae bloom). Maybe something died. Maybe you haven't been keeping up with maintenance (blowing off rocks, water changes, replacing chemical media, not replacing mechanical filtration every few days...). Lights would not have any real effect on nutrient levels - only poor maintenance or something dying would do that.

My advice would be to go to your LFS and buy BIO-Spira or Fritz Zyme 9 and dose as directed. Turn off your skimmer for 3-4 days while the bacteria do their thing. Put a bag of ChemiPure Elite in your sump/filter. On day four, do a 20% water change, making sure to blow off rocks with turkey baster beforehand. After everything settles from the water change, replace all mechanical filtration. Re-dose BIO-Spira / Fritz Zyme 9 after replacing filters. On day six, start up your skimmer again. During all this time, have your lights on for 4hrs max per day. Do another water change after a week.

Nothing ever happens without reason, ever. As hobbyist's we just don't have all the tools and scientific knowledge to reliably diagnose our tanks. That said, there are things we do understand and can predict. I highly recommend you pick up this book. It's an excellent information source.

 

[Gopilosaurus]

Maxxumless, thanks for the recommendations. I'll pick Bio-Spira and ChemiPure tomorrow.

The thing that gets me is I do use the turkey baster to blow off rocks, do at least 10% weekly water changes (which is why I thought maybe it was this bag of clumpy salt?), the nitrate and phosphates have been at 0 but probably locked up in the algae. I upped water changes in the last couple weeks (5 gallons/daily) to try to control the algae...no effect so I went with the blackout.

I change out the filter socks every couple days and make sure to suck out any detritus from the sump. It's driving me nuts!

 

[BlindZide]

Have you checked the fresh saltwater you are adding to the tank for Ammonia? If you are using RO/DI, are you sure something isn't a muck? If the algae is dying, am I right to assume that it could raise Ammonia as well thus restarting the cycle of nutrients for the algae?

 

[Maxxumless]

Maybe something died. Happens a lot actually and people are always "I did everything right..." Even knew one guy at UT some years back that had a tank in his dorm room that had a party and someone dumped a beer into his nano. Surprisingly, everything survived.

 

[BlindZide]

Maybe something died. Happens a lot actually and people are always "I did everything right..." Even knew one guy at UT some years back that had a tank in his dorm room that had a party and someone dumped a beer into his nano. Surprisingly, everything survived.

The fish were partying too! That actually made me chuckle a little.

 

[Gopilosaurus]

I'm using RO/DI 4 stage from BRS. I've had it for a month- did the 'run for 1 hour' before using the water thing. Comes out at 0 TDS. Could a switch in source of water be it?

The fish are now looking better and not gasping. I'm assuming my xenia and blue anthelia are dead. I haven't pulled them because I will hope they bounce back with the return of light. Mushrooms aren't looking too great either. I did pull out some lethargic not-dead-yet astrea snails pre-blackout. I also pulled the body of a dead hermit last week. Not all inverts seemed to be affected, corals seemed super happy until I did the black out. Remaining hermits and snails are active.

I'd like to be able to store larger amounts of salt water...I'd be able to do this in our un-heated garage. However, my fiance does a lot of work on vehicles and I'm concerned about emissions getting into the water. I'll pick up 10 gals of pre-made water from the LFS, new salt, BioSpira, and the chemipure tomorrow.

Also...should I keep the lights out or turn them back on for the corals? I did remove the plastic so there is the ambient light.

Maybe I'll just enter the ugly tank contest

 

[Maxxumless]

Just mix more saltwater than you'll need for your next water change and store 5g in the garage in a jug that has a top. Do the same with RO/DI water. 5g jugs are pretty cheap. I always keep 5g of RO/DI water, 5g mixed salt, and a 3g kalk mix always sitting in my garage. When it's time for another water change everything gets used (RO/DI pur water becomes new kalk mix). You can also keep a 32-gallon Rubbermaid trash can with top sealing it in the garage so you never have to wait for water to be made...

Take a look at Craigslist around your area... You have nothing on ugly tanks lol I've seen some really uglies in there!

 

[Gopilosaurus]

Thanks, Maxxumless.

I'll ask for a small section of the garage for me today. I worry about chemicals with all his tinkering. (Restoring a '49 Chevy farm truck, plus a miata, Subaru STI, and two motorcycles. My car lives on the street. We have expensive hobbies!)

I picked up and added the BioSpira-skimmer is off. The clowns look OK, domino is still hiding in the rocks, clove polyp and zoas are coming out; kenya tree is starting to spread out more. I don't think the other corals made it.

I couldn't find the chemipure at the box store and the specialty LFS doesn't open for another 5 hours. So I guess I'll just have to wait and try not to worry. I *refuse* to give up. I did FW for 10+ years and have cared for reefs over this time...why is having my own so much more trouble?

 

[Gopilosaurus]

Evening update:
-Fishies are looking OK, swimming and not gasping. I gave them a small feed.

-Zoas are now covered in 'slime' but a few heads are poking out. Xenias, ricordia, and mushrooms are melted. Candy cane looks totally dead. Blue anthelia and kenya tree look like they might make it. Maybe.

-Bristleworm, asterina starfish and snail die offs add to the fun. Most of them are getting swept into the filter sock so that will have to be a daily change. It looks like aside from hermits, most of my CUC has perished. (Empty shells and lots of bodies that needed to be removed from over flow)

ChemiPure Elite added to sump, on top of return filter. I believe I need to increase rate of flow through the sump, especially since the protein skimmer is taking a break. The water seems very still.

If everything totally goes south, I'll empty the tank and drill it and just start over. Others wise, I need to increase flow through my DIY overflow box. I drilled and connected 2 breeder boxes to make it- would increasing hole size increase flow rate? The return pump is on a ball valve so I can open that more, but doesn't change how much water goes through the over flow. Or, should I get an Eschopps overflow box?

 

[Maxxumless]

BIO-Spira should get ammonia & nitrites under control in a day or two if you can keep ahead of the die-off. Keep the snail shells - you can use them later. Hope everything works out.

 

[Gopilosaurus]

The good news is...the hermits are changing shells and much of the algae has died. So...goal accomplished?

 

[Maxxumless]

So, you think this was all a conspiracy by the hermits to get new shells?!?! LOL If so, yes, they did an excellent job.

Time will tell, as far as the rest of your animals.

 

[Gopilosaurus]

Lol. I've had some devious creatures before. Back when I was breeding brigs, I found that they had crawled out of the tank at the top of my bed and were crawling up the feet at the bottom of the bed. Long trip for a snail...

Otherwise, I've seen a couple stories about clumped salt losing buffering capacity. If that's true, then the lack of photosynthesis and continued respiration during the black out could've caused pH crash. Or the hermits wanted to be lords of the inverts and took advantage of the lack of witnesses...:worried: