Yellow Tang lost...

[Reefer2727]

Hi All,

I recently lost a yellow tang in my QT tank that I was treating using the hypo method. The fish was new and showed no signs of ich but I just wanted to be sure and treat him anyway.

He started to show some large brown/red areas near his fins. I also saw what looked like blood(really red) spot at the base of his fin. Anyway, he stopped eating and died over a period of a couple of days. Sounds like a bacterial infection or something. Also showed some signs of HLLE. Obviously the water has something in it.

I am now wondering what I should do with my QT tank as I dont trust the water quality. The tank is a bare bottom 20 gallon with a HOB filter. I was thinking that perhaps I should just drain in and add water from my DT the next time I do a water change. I am just concerned with the bacterial/parasite issue that killed the tang.

Is draining it and using good DT water a decent idea? I just have foam in the HOB filter. Would there be some bad stuff in this foam to be worried about? I recently put a skimmer on the tank as well to try to help out. If I use 20 gallons of good cycled DT water could I start out with some new foam or will I need to cycle again?

Any recommendations would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[ultreef]

Rinse/soak all your equipments used for the QT tank in bleach solution including the tank and let it air dry. Next time you plan to buy some new livestock, put the sponge filter into your sump and seed it for a week or so and use water from your DT and restart your QT.

 

[Reefer2727]

What do you mean when you say bleach solution? What kind of ratio are we talking about?

Thanks

 

[ultreef]

1/4 cup to a gallon of water is enuf for sanitizing but I usually double it. But make sure to let the equipments and tank dry completely before reusing.

 

[wooden_reefer]

Hi All,

I recently lost a yellow tang in my QT tank that I was treating using the hypo method. The fish was new and showed no signs of ich but I just wanted to be sure and treat him anyway.

He started to show some large brown/red areas near his fins. I also saw what looked like blood(really red) spot at the base of his fin. Anyway, he stopped eating and died over a period of a couple of days. Sounds like a bacterial infection or something. Also showed some signs of HLLE. Obviously the water has something in it.

I am now wondering what I should do with my QT tank as I dont trust the water quality. The tank is a bare bottom 20 gallon with a HOB filter. I was thinking that perhaps I should just drain in and add water from my DT the next time I do a water change. I am just concerned with the bacterial/parasite issue that killed the tang.

Is draining it and using good DT water a decent idea? I just have foam in the HOB filter. Would there be some bad stuff in this foam to be worried about? I recently put a skimmer on the tank as well to try to help out. If I use 20 gallons of good cycled DT water could I start out with some new foam or will I need to cycle again?

Any recommendations would be appreciated.

Thanks

"If I use 20 gallons of good cycled DT water could I start out with some new foam or will I need to cycle again?"

Just think about it. Why would the QT have enough bacteria by you just doing so? No it does not.

No water is cycled, the medium in your DT is cycled. Water from DT can be a good source of bacteria seed, but only seed. Yes, you should definitely cycle the medium intended for QT, and very well. Otherwise, you are almost just cycling with the tang in QT, not for the tang in advance of QT.

Your tang could have suffered from ammonia, but it sounded like bacteria infection.

I always use UV in against bacteria when I treat in QT against ich, to eradicate ich with 8 or more weeks of active treatment.

In general, unless there is concurrent bacterial infection that requires the use of a drug that harms nitrification bacteria, the QT will have zero ammonia for the full duration of the QT. Little water change will be needed in QT.

 

[mehaffydr]

Just the water alone is not going to contain enough bacteria, you will need to cycle again and I would get new foam why take that chance for a couple dollars.

Also I believe Vinegar is a little safer to use for cleaning.

 

[wooden_reefer]

To cycle a medium for QT, simply allow it to be exposed to sources of ammonia.

I think the easiest way to explain this is the mock feeding of fish.

Do what you had planned to do before, but for five weeks prior, imagine that the fish are already in the QT. Just feed the imaginary fish for five weeks.

There are ways to optimize, but the basic concept is the same. You can cycle in a separate small container using just a few pulses of ammonia source to save on water and then dump the cycling water and use the cycled medium. There is advantage in doing so.

 

[Reefer2727]

Well, today I drained my 20 gallon QT and I plan on cleaning all the equipment tomorrow. I also bought some new foam. I have a big piece of foam in my overflow box and a couple of pieces in my sump.

So, I will give everything a good clean. I also like the idea of vinegar versus bleach.

As far as cycling goes... Wooden Reefer, I always see you chime in on the cycling questions and to be honest I dont follow you. I understand now how the water from my DT will not be enough to supply the bacteria necessary in the QT tank.

I am just unclear about your process of cycling in a separate container with 'pulses of ammonia'. Could you totally spell it out for me. Im a rookie. What do you use to supply ammonia?

Also, when will the foam that is in my sump contain enough bacteria to be able to run my QT? Also, is using the DT water along with the foam in the sump a good idea?

Thanks. Sorry about the rookie questions. I am in no rush at all and just want to have it set up correctly. I have taken a pass on the Tang for now.

 

[mehaffydr]

What do you use to supply ammonia? That would be the fish food that you put into the tank Without fish it will rot and produce amonina. Then the bacteria will increase its population breaking down the Amoonia.

Once you have had the Amonia spike and then the Bacteria bring down the Level of Amonia to 0, this will take a few weeks. Also wait for Nitrite and Nitrate to get down to 0 also Then there is enough bacteria to keep any Amonia in check when you put in fish.

sometimes instead of fish food people will just put in a piece of raw shrimp you could get at the Grocery store. as the shrimp starts to decompose it will produce the Amonia to get the Cycle going. If you use the shrimp make sure it is RAW not cooked.

When you restart this QT if you use that piece of foan from the sump it will contain good bacteria but you will need to have it in the QT were it will get good water flow through it so that in can come into contact with the Amonia and continue to produce Good Bacteria.

I believe what wooden reefer was refering to with pulses of amonia was if you put in fish food daily as it decomposes it will add Amonia each day.

Seems like your on the right track.

 

[wooden_reefer]

 

[wooden_reefer]

Well, today I drained my 20 gallon QT and I plan on cleaning all the equipment tomorrow. I also bought some new foam. I have a big piece of foam in my overflow box and a couple of pieces in my sump.

So, I will give everything a good clean. I also like the idea of vinegar versus bleach.

As far as cycling goes... Wooden Reefer, I always see you chime in on the cycling questions and to be honest I dont follow you. I understand now how the water from my DT will not be enough to supply the bacteria necessary in the QT tank.

I am just unclear about your process of cycling in a separate container with 'pulses of ammonia'. Could you totally spell it out for me. Im a rookie. What do you use to supply ammonia?

Also, when will the foam that is in my sump contain enough bacteria to be able to run my QT? Also, is using the DT water along with the foam in the sump a good idea?

Thanks. Sorry about the rookie questions. I am in no rush at all and just want to have it set up correctly. I have taken a pass on the Tang for now.

How did you cycle your DT? Did you use recently collected LR to cycle? If you had, the simpicity of the process of cycling may have eluded you.

Cycling is the intensive cultivation of nitrification bacteria. IT is very very very easy.

I cycle both DT and QT in almost the same way. No need to change any water during the entire cycle

What did you use as a source of ammonia to cycle your DT?

I said the simplist way to explain this is to the mock feeding of fish.

Do as you did or plan to do before your ask for help here. Now, by the time you were to add fish, don't. Instead add pulses of ammonia source. What are some ammonia sources? Ammonia comes from three sources: 1. excretion of live animals like fish and human beings (urine of all types), 2. decay of protein, and 3 artifical inorganic ammonia, liquid or ammonium salt.

Generally, use the decay of protein as ammonia source. If the odor bothers you, use 90% from inorganic ammonia and 10% from animal protein decay.

To estimate the amount of ammonia added from protein, use the follow simple approximation.

One half-ounce fresh moist emusified shrimp will decay in 100 gals of water to give 1 ppm N ammonia.

I often optimise instead of mock feeding fish, but the concept is the same. I often use just a few gals of water to cycle a medium for QT in a container of just a few gals capacity, so I add every few days to 5 ppm. Just run a HOT box filter or a canister filter in a bucket with the medium. If you use 5 gals of water to cycle a medium, put in 5 grams of shrimp on day 1 and every three days after day 14 of the cycle. (shrimps are classified by numbers per pound so you do not have to weigh it to know the weight.) After five weeks the cycle will be done or you can do nitrite test to confirm. Dump the dirty cycling water and use just the cycled medium in QT in a box filter or canister filter.

Not very simple? Why is it not very simple?

 

[Reefer2727]

Thanks for the responses. How long will it take for the foam in my DT to be ready for QT? Should I use DT or freshly mixed salt water when the time comes?

 

[wooden_reefer]

Thanks for the responses. How long will it take for the foam in my DT to be ready for QT? Should I use DT or freshly mixed salt water when the time comes?

The foam in the DT may never be ready for use in QT.

There may always be too few bacteria.

Bacteria will not grow rapidly in a DT, won't colonize a sponge rapidly, because the ammonia level in a DT is too low.

 

[Reefer2727]

Ok. I will let it sit in there for a week or so and then cycle the QT the normal way. Should I just use freshly mixed saltwater or should I use DT water?