zeovit

[snagged by reef]

hey guys,

can someone post the thread with the zeovit info. i'm thinking about making a purchase but was looking for some feed back on anyone that may have used it. maybe which configuration the or she may have used and amount they may have used along with pics would be greatly apreciated.

i made the plunge into an sps tank and things are going great but i have read and seen some pics with zeovit and they are absolutely amazing. these germans seem they know their stuff.

thanks in advance all!!

 

[Kolognekoral]

I have recently gone over to the Zeovit system after considering other zeolith systems. Living in Germany made the decision a bit easier!

Essentially, the zeolith systems create a very nutrient poor environment which doesn't support large amounts of zooxanthellae and thus allows the corals to show their basic pigments. This environment imitates the very clean reefs of Fiji, Tonga, etc.

If you decide to go with the Zeovit system, which I find of exceptional quality (personal experience), I would recommend using only their products to get yourself going. The system(products) is in constant evolution and designed to interact. Foreign products may hinder success.

Go to the zeovit website and download the English version of the guide:

http://www.korallen-zucht.de/

this will get you started. There is a USA Zeovit site, as well.

you may, also, wish to join the Zeovit Forum, which is multi-lingual. A very informative forum, similar to this one. If you have any other questions, please feel free to contact me. I am still a beginner with Zeovit, but will happily share my experiences. As with any Marine System, going slowly is the key.

 

[hahnmeister]

Well, thats half of it... the other half of a nutrient poor system is to suppliment with enzymes, bacteria, and bacterial plankton. Otherwise, simply dosing ethanol will get the same 'low nutrient' system results.

For info on Zeovit, go to ***************

Also, look into Ultralith by Fauna Marin. Its almost identical, but a much better value it seems (Claude of FM said its more of a 'hobbyist' grade version of Zeo, where Zeo is more of the 'fanatical' grade stuff.

 

[bergzy]

i have been very happy with zeovit...and have tapered down its 'use' once i established my low nutrient levels to 'finally' get my sps' to color up and grow. i have found a very happy balance for my tank using some zeo products and other ((mostly natural) methods.

to start zeo...i would go to their forum and hit up the mods. they are extremely helpful on zeo and non zeo related issues.

when starting, this is one system i would not try and be smarter than the average bear...meaning, i would not venture out of their recommended guidelines (eg high alk)...i would follow their recommendations to the T as they have the most experience with it.

the problems i see most frequently with people using zeo then giving up saying it doesnt work or is just a baloney are those who do not use it correctly, use other products combined with it (trying to be smarter than the average bear) or just dont give it enough time for nutrient reduction and bacterial colonization stabilization.

hope this helps and perhaps i will see you there on zeo help you with zeo related issues.

 

[o.c.d.]

To me it seems like it's more effort to maintain a zeo system I looked into is and the LFS runs it in some tanks and I've watched their tanks crash.I'm not saying it's no good but the dosing regiment seems to need alot of attention,I'd be worried to go on holidays and leave in the hands of anyone but a true reefer.Thats just my interpretation after reading the zeo guide. does anyone know the $$ per day to run a zeo system?

 

[bergzy]

i wouldnt run zeo IF you are not experienced in maintenance esp in the area of tight parameter control and in the regular habit of testing for it.

this system is not for everyone nor was it meant to be for everyone...it is for those who absolutely love and enjoy putting time into their reef. it is no different than some of my friends that rush home from work to fix their cars, polish their cars, look at their cars...etc...for hours and hours and hours..........and hours...

if one is looking for an 'easy' way to get popping colors...then zeo might be a challenge for those. it requires measured daily dosing, daily zeolite rock movement and weekly (triweekly for me when i was going full bore) testing of critical parameters of alk and ca...along with the odd mg and the K+ that seems to be lower in zeo systems.

i have gone on holidays and have experienced no problems...but i did this when i was deep into phase II of zeo...so missing a few days was no big deal. and...going on vacation with zeo is no different for me than going without zeo. with my tank caretaker...i leave a 12 page detailed print out of what to do but more importantly what to look for if and when something goes wrong. then they are to call me promptly. i do not let them feed or dose anything. i wouldnt even let a fellow reefer dose my tank...even if it were non-zeo. there are things that only you will know about by the subtle nuances that your system tells you. i just ask them to make sure the lights go on, water is moving, the temp isnt too high and to check salinity...and to add fw from a dedicated rodi spout in a premeasured amount. no auto top off for me.

the learning curve is steep and the dosing seems initially confusing...and heck, it is in the beginning...that is what the mods on zeo are for.

as for lfs' doing zeo...it is somewhat scary for me if they are having inexperienced hands dosing the additives...esp if there is no set schedule, no set responsibility etc. see the potential for a problem that can easily lead to a crash? lfs' owners have a tough enough time worrying about operating overhead, thinking about profit/loss margins, when the next shipment of live goods are coming in, when the next shipment of drygoods are coming in, if this shipment of livegoods is going to be seized because of inadequate CITES documentation from the shipper, cleaning the tanks, uprighting corals, water changes, feeding the fish and the most time consuming part...trying to catch THAT nemo fish for the 8 year old that insists on having THAT one. another easy pitfall for zeo use in a lfs...distraction.

cost:

initial cost 'can' be expensive. but heck, what isnt in this hobby? in reality, the most expensive part of zeo is the 'reactor'...and i made my own 2 gallon external reactor for $20 (rather than the $450+ it would normally cost). believe it or not, zeo has decreased its prices. i used it when it WAS expensive. they have cut their original prices by 10 - 20%. to start, you just need the basic four: zeobac, zeostart2, zeofood, zeolites...and they are not 'that' expensive.

if and when you are ready to start zeo, go on the forum and ask as many questions you can and want to...the guys on there are a ton of help with infinite patience. i know, they helped me through it!!!

 

[Kolognekoral]

Ben.

well put. Zeo is not for the weekend aquarist, although the established system is very stable, getting there requires attention to detail and good observation. I have tried other zeolith systems, such as Elos and Ultra, but was not truly happy. They work, but the fine tuning was not there and with Elos, the translation was not there! My Italian is quite poor.

In comparison, the Zeovit system was a bit less expensive in the long run for me. This is based on European prices. Also, the forum support is simply great, you can't pay for this kind of enthusiasm. The info exchange is very stimulating, much like this forum, but more focused toward low-nutrient systems (not just Zeo). Improvements on the products is in constant discussion, as well as their use in non-zeolith systems.

I admit, I belong to that group of aquarists that are enjoying the ride and less interested in the final destination. It's the getting there that makes for the memorable experience. Once you've arrived, you do have this 'master of the universe' feeling, though. Suddenly, all corals look possible.

 

[3.99AfterTaxes]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11529555#post11529555 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by o.c.d.
To me it seems like it's more effort to maintain a zeo system I looked into is and the LFS runs it in some tanks and I've watched their tanks crash.I'm not saying it's no good but the dosing regiment seems to need alot of attention,I'd be worried to go on holidays and leave in the hands of anyone but a true reefer.Thats just my interpretation after reading the zeo guide. does anyone know the $$ per day to run a zeo system?

Ummm, and which LFS is this?

 

[o.c.d.]

I'm not into bashing my LFS after all they are good to me . But I will say that I wonder if coral or frags grown in zeo have a less likely chance of survival in non zeo systems, So when I purchase from a zeo system would shock set in from the system change ? The frags I have purchased usually don't spend much time in the system so I wonder.

 

[3.99AfterTaxes]

There's only one LFS in Calgary that uses both Zeo and does coral fragging. A couple things about it:

- There's never been a tank crash on their Zeo tanks.
- Broodstock colonies are grown IN the Zeo tank.
- They move a lot of frags with no long term problems.

I should know, I work there...

 

[hahnmeister]

About stores that keep their corals in Zeo getting home to non-Zeo tanks... I seem to remember this popping up on zeovit.com even, and the opinion among more than a few was that yes, the corals are more sensitive and likely to brown out, RTN, etc if the store uses ZEO.

I think it has to do more with the drastic adaptation that the coral has to go through to acclimate to zeo from the wholeseller, and then again when going to someones home reef... too much stress I suppose. If the corals look pastel, I wont buy them because thats just too close to bleaching out. There is a store close to here with very pastel looking corals... almost all of which you can get frags of... almost all which die upon getting home. It could be from too much light as well though, so who knows.

 

[Kolognekoral]

This is an interesting point, as I previously had problems with wild collected corals not being able to adapt to my then non-zeo tank. They would quickly brown-out and then typically RTN. On the other hand, frags from aquarium established stocks would adapt very quickly, but they were already somewhat heavier settle with zooxanthellae, thus a bit brown.

One of my firends that raises corals always doses nitrates to his water to darken the colours of the corals. He uses a more traditional non-zeo system with PO4 removers, therefore has a low phosphate and keeps the NO3 at 10 mg/L (ppm). The corals adapt well to most environments; zeo or non-zeo.

Often the imports to Europe come from extremely clean reefs and are quite pale in colour. They will brown-out in high-nutrient systems. In my Zeovit system, they adapt very quickly (almost overnight), which leads me to believe that the tank is now closer to a natural reef (water parameters). However, the shop where I typically purchase these corals does not run zeo filters, rather large water changes plus classic skimmer methods. After two to three weeks in the store, the corals are much darker and adapt less well for me. They do still adapt, but they need to shed the extra zooxanthellae before they really feel comfortable. Now the question would be; how often can a coral adapt itself in a short period of time without becoming over-stressed.

In a zeolith system, nutrients must be provided to feed the inverts. Unfortuntely, zeolith filters have not yet evolved to a clear science, there is still an element of unknown involved. This lies with the nature of zeoliths, which are preferential ion-exchangers. The ones we currently use for marine aquariums remove ammonias, but, also, a few other trace elements. The breakdown of the ammonias via bacteria is what prevents the nitrate and phosphate levels from getting out of hand. They do not absorb these waste product directly. In my opinion, PO4 is mainly removed via the skimmer, after it has been bound to other organic materials, probably bacteria. There is a theory that this tends to happen in an anaerobic environment, which is why most zeolith filters are run in an on-off cycle of 3 hours. This allows the anaerobic bacteria a chance to assimilate the PO4, which is then skimmed out of the system. A portion of this bacteria is, also, assimilated by the corals and other inverts, thus providing them with a more natural food source.

Now, this said, it seems that PO4, which is mainly used by algaes, even in the corals, must remain limited, but must also still be present. A complete removal would stagnate the system, perhaps killing it partly or completely. Just how much waste a system can assimilate is in constant flux, as we do not feed exactly measured quantites and the inhabitants are changing as well. Then there is the aquarist, who can't resist yet another inhabitant. In other words, we really push the envelope on our systems and they need constant tweeking to keep them healthy and running. Rather than seeing such a system as a circle of events, we may be better off seeing it as a bubble. It can be expanded to a certain point, but over this line it bursts.

I get the feeling I'm starting to rant on a soap box, therefore I will bow out and see what others have to say.:rollface:

I'm loving this thread! Lots of infos being put out there.

 

[o.c.d.]

3.99 Aftertaxes so if you work there then you should be aware of what has happened to the semi display tank. KingAL himself was the one who gave me the explanation of why all the coral were dieing. he said it was a major ALK swing and the employees during the week didn't notice,seemed a little irritated. And if this is King AL then who are you kidding you may have saved the corals and they may have recovered but don't pretend no damage was done. I watched the system everytime I went in, because the lfs was trying to sell a zeo system to a nubi friend of mine so when I saw what it looked like. That helped cement my discision to not purchase a zeo system. And from reading above I probably made the right discision. So crash maybe a little strong how about rapid decline of corals or not crash but in the process of crashing. Like I said I was not trying to bash the LFS and I'm the type that sends business to them they are the best prices in town.But I don't agree with selling zeo to nubies. Sorry if you were offended not my intent

 

[hahnmeister]

Just wondering, how often do you have to does the 'basic 4'? I am trying to put together a zeo/ultralith system, but want to have it as automatic as possible. The reactor itself for instance, will be automatic.

 

[bergzy]

as most reefers with good solid zeo experience will note that alk swings of any kind is very dangerous in a zeo system. alk is not to rise above 8 and even then, the levels are not to fluctuate too much or you will experience coral stress.

what happened to the lfs zeo tank was pretty much what i guessed...lack of centralized responsibility to monitor and regulate critical parameters...which in zeo is alk. ca, mag and k+ are also all important...but nothing will kill a zeo tank off faster than alk swings.

like with 'almost' all tank crashes (and crashes of all sorts)...it is human error that causes problems.

the guys that i know that use zeo are very knowledgeable with reef parameter control and enjoy tweaking these parameters to fine tune their corals in their systems. let us just say that it goes beyond a hobby...it is more like a passion for me. zeo tanks when running properly have color popping sps. have i seen non-zeo tanks with eye popping color? you bet...but great zeo tank sps' 'glow' in real life that pictures fail to capture. i can only work towards what my tanks to look like the full bore zeo tanks i have seen. i am getting there..but slowly...just the way zeo was meant to be.

as those on the zeo forum will tell you...since they know who i am...i asked A LOT of questions...and i mean a lot...before i even dove into zeo. i read and re-read the instructions, i made flow charts for the dosing schedule and made a calender check off when i was first starting. now...i have automated some of the dosing (with experience and knowledge of the uniqueness of your tank...then i would only do this) and just dose pretty much habitually. tending zeo literally takes me 30 seconds per day

i am not commenting on your lfs' practice of how and what to sell their product line to customers whether considered newbies or experts. it is their store and can run it however they choose. how successful it is will be determined by their ethics, goodwill and genuine love of their business.

 

[3.99AfterTaxes]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11609369#post11609369 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by o.c.d.
3.99 Aftertaxes so if you work there then you should be aware of what has happened to the semi display tank. KingAL himself was the one who gave me the explanation of why all the coral were dieing. he said it was a major ALK swing and the employees during the week didn't notice,seemed a little irritated. And if this is King AL then who are you kidding you may have saved the corals and they may have recovered but don't pretend no damage was done. I watched the system everytime I went in, because the lfs was trying to sell a zeo system to a nubi friend of mine so when I saw what it looked like. That helped cement my discision to not purchase a zeo system. And from reading above I probably made the right discision. So crash maybe a little strong how about rapid decline of corals or not crash but in the process of crashing. Like I said I was not trying to bash the LFS and I'm the type that sends business to them they are the best prices in town.But I don't agree with selling zeo to nubies. Sorry if you were offended not my intent

The alk swing that we experienced, in retrospect, would have wiped out the corals in ANY system, not just zeo. Going from 7 to 15 isn't normal.

And yeah, this IS Albert. I find no fault in recommending Zeovit as a possible methodology to hobbyist, it's really no different than recommending ozone IMO. The push isn't to sell, it's to educate. If someone asks me why my tanks are so clean, then I would think it responsible to tell them.

You not using Zeovit is your own decision. Making the claim that my tanks were declining SOLELY because of it Zeovit translates to your decisions negatively influencing others falsely.

 

[Kolognekoral]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11609691#post11609691 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
Just wondering, how often do you have to does the 'basic 4'? I am trying to put together a zeo/ultralith system, but want to have it as automatic as possible. The reactor itself for instance, will be automatic.

Dear Beer Master,

with the basic 4, I change my stones every 8 weeks, as I have a pretty good load on them, some go for 12 weeks, some only 6. On a daily basis I dose for 750litres Nett; 1.5ml Zeostart2, 8ml B-Balance, 8 drops Sponge Power, 4ml Coral Snow. Twice a week I dose 8 drops Zeobak and 8 drops Zeofood, sometimes a bit less. The stones in the reactor are shaken twice a day to release the bio-film. I do this once mornings and once evenings. If you forget a day, it's no big thing.

As you can see, the amounts are tiny and are best dosed per hand, not through a machine. There are some dosers that can handle small quantities if one wishes to automate. I add the stuff late evenings after the lights are out and the skimmer is off for a few hours, but that's just me.

With the Ultralith system, it is simpler as there are only two main supplements which are not as concentrated and may be dosed with most machines. I never obtained the colours under the Ultra system that I get under the Zeo system, but it was certainly beautiful. I noticed that the Ultra Min S is not blessed with a long shelf life and turned on me after about 5 months, so I would purchase the appropriate quantity for short term use or keep it cooled to just above freezing. Zeobak should, also, be refrigerated or at least kept cool.

 

[95accord]

http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/product-info.php?product_ID=zv-salt

 

[bergzy]

every system is different.

i dose b balance and start2 with 1 ml of each using separate eheim liquid dosers that dispense 1 ml per spill...hence one spill for each per day.

i dose zeobak about twice a week now. ten drops. and have subbed out 1 ml of food7 for 1 ml of vodka with great results...for my system. like jamie said, zeobak needs to be refrigerated so automating this would be tough.

i have become lazy and shake my rocks out every other day now...and i now 'somewhat' break the rules as not discarding my old stones and just adding one liter of new stones every 4 months. i will eventually remove some stones but my 2 gallon external reactor is doing a great job.

i do a 10% water change per week with tropic marin pro. the only supplement is with a ca reactor to maintain my alk and ca. there is also a little mag supplement along in the ca reactor.

i add 10 drops of sponge power daily and twice a week about 10 drops of coralvite every other day.

imo and ime and i VERY happy with zeo...and my corals too!!!

 

[Fish2reef]

I am very happy with Zeo, people love Zeo or hate Zeo there is no in between. for me is the best thing I tried in my many years in this hobbie and based on my experience I highly recommend it.