Zeovit

[newsalt]

I'm new to zeo. I've been using it for 4 weeks now. I have a bad Hair Algea problem and started zeo because I wanted the great color, clear water, and to get rid of the hair algea. I have had a had time maintaining my alk and as a result, I lost some corals to RTN. Because of the RTN, I was going to quit using zeo.


Even though 4 weeks is the schedule for the first zeolite change out, I was told on the zeo forum, to keep my zeolites another 2 weeks, to keep the biological changes low because of the present RTN issues.

I'm dosing as follows:

ZeoBac â€"œ 5 drops 2 x weekly
ZeoFood â€"œ 2 drops 2 x weekly
ZeoStart 2 x 0.4 ml weekly

I just ordered Coral Vitalizer and AAHC.

I'm jumping the gun to quit zeo because I have not seen the results I wanted. I'd love to hear from people who struggled in the beginning with zeo.

 

[Canarygirl]

I fit the category of "struggling at the beginning." I've been using Zeovit for 7 months.

I had some RTN at the beginning because of Alk and salinity swings, partly from problems with my calcium reactor and skimmer. Also I used too much of an aggressive carbon and had RTN from that. I had to stop and restart 2 months later when things had stabilized and the RTN had stopped.

I don't have as many problems in those areas as I did, but I still have some (I changed skimmers but still have same Ca Rx).

Another thing I did wrong when I set up my tank was re-use somebody else's sand+crushed coral in a medium sandbed. I didn't know any better....I remembered much later that the person I got the sand from had used it in a deepsandbed. So at this point I struggle with high nutrients and some brown corals because my substrate is continuously leaching PO4.

At the moment I am doing an upgrade to a larger tank, which will be bare bottom. I am also getting yet another new skimmer--having a really effective one is critical IMO with Zeovit, and possibly a new Ca Rx.

In my opinion, 4 weeks is much too short a period to expect to see major changes from Zeo. For many users, it took a year or even longer to reach very low nutrient status. I think that's why the saying "stay the course" is such a popular expression in Zeoville.

 

[newsalt]

Do you think zeovit will eventually get rid of my hair algea problem?

 

[Canarygirl]

I think that you need to attack your HA problem from multiple fronts: manual removal from the rocks, minimizing nutrients from extra food, using filter socks, cleaning your skimmer cup every other day, keeping your sump vaccumed out, throwing a lot of herbivores at it (whatever kind eats HA), and keeping on with the Zeovit. If you work hard at all this it should disappear when your nutrient levels get low enough. This is true for most people who stick it out, but some people who have rocks that are especially bound up with PO4 eventually scrap their rocks and buy new LR. That is the exception rather than the rule. You want to avoid letting it get that strong of a foothold.

 

[Husky_1]

Canarygirl,
What were the initial problems you had with your skimmer?

 

[Zedar]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12527514#post12527514 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by newsalt
Do you think zeovit will eventually get rid of my hair algea problem?

Yes i do. If you read this whole thread you know I used a less aggressive form of the zeovit method and It removed all my hair algae.

It took three months. i also did all the things Canarygirl has recommended.

 

[glassbox-design]

Zedar et. al...

For those of you using iHerb Potassium Chloride this may be of help. I would still suggest using a kit to give you a better idea, but at the very least you can know the effect of each dose on overall K values in the system.

Potassium Calculation

 

[newsalt]

So there's hope. I just need patience and persistance.

 

[Zedar]

Glassbox thanks for the info.

Now we just need a good source for test kits. Im on the waiting list fro an FM kit but fear that may take months to get.

 

[Husky_1]

I have to tell you guys that I have been testing with the KZ kit, and I do not find it all that hard to read. Sure your number is not exact, but you do get a pretty good idea of where you are at. The test itself is simple, add 1ml of tank water 9 ml of one solution and 5 drops of another and wait 4 minutes. Sure the reading takes a couple time to get use to , but for those of you with access to NSW, or even a reference kit it makes its much easier on estimating your numbers.

It took me a couple of reading to get through but I figure if my test strip with the vial on it looks like the strip around 275 without the vial then I am where I need to be.

 

[Canarygirl]

Canarygirl,
What were the initial problems you had with your skimmer?

When I started Zeo I had a BubbleMaster200 (early model that's been modified since). I couldn't get it dialed in right. It was overflowing a lot unless I dialed it back far enough that it would take a few days to get any skimmate at all. I was constantly tweaking it and it made me nuts. Plus when it would overskim for a period of days, all the RODI makeup water would drop my salinity which didn't help.

I ended up selling that skimmer and getting a Deltec Turbo1250 with a mesh-modded eHeim 1250 and that is a great skimmer but too small for my system. Now I have an ATB nano conical skimmer which is also very good.

 

[stony_corals]

You can't starve hair algae without starving your corals... There is hair algae on the reefs, but herbavores keep it in check. If you are fortunate enough to be ULN, it could simply be your corals and skimmer are outcompete it for whatever nutrients are left...

Canarygirl, that's a few pretty pennies spent on the skimmers!

 

[Canarygirl]

yeah...I didn't pay for the Deltec though, traded it for the BM200.

And now I'm upgrading my system, moving to a bare bottom, and waiting on a new BK skimmer! I want to be able to feed as much as I want to and not worry about it. Unlike now, where I have brown corals still and nuisance algae.

 

[Zedar]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12534433#post12534433 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by stony_corals
You can't starve hair algae without starving your corals... There is hair algae on the reefs, but herbavores keep it in check. If you are fortunate enough to be ULN, it could simply be your corals and skimmer are outcompete it for whatever nutrients are left...

Catch 22

This is where I found myself at the start of this thread. I had NO algae but my corals where starving.
I followed the "feed the fish more" method, and experienced the return of a small amount of algae, but nothing like prior to starting the carbon dosing method.

So get more algae exporters? Or is there a better way?

Since we know natural reefs are low in dissolved nutrients such as P04 N03 etc, but high in zooplankton, bacteria laden detritus, and other particulates that are fed upon by corals, shouldnt we try and emulate that environment as closely as possible?

Feeding the fish "DURING THE DAY" when most SPS have little or no PE isnt benefiting them IMHO. Not to mention the fact that even cyclopeeze isnt ideally suited for acropora due to its size.
They may get some dissolved nutrients mostly in the form of P04 and N03 from these feedings, but isnt that what we're trying to limit in the first place?
Wouldnt feedings at night "just like the natural reef" when most acropora open their polyps to feed on zooplankton that rise from the depths, be more prudent?
Most of the food "of the proper size" would be eaten by the corals and, correct me if im wrong, wouldn't the wastes in the form of P04, N03 from this protein rich food source, get consumed by the zooxanthalle hosted in the corals and not released into the water as dissolved nutrients? Hence robbing the nuisance algae of their food source while providing the corals with theirs?

 

[sailfintang]

Quick question has anyone ver considered the Right Now! Bacteria additive and the use of the tri based pelletized carbon? I was reading about those two items reducing the po4 and no3 to 0 within a 72 hour period. I am willing to give this a try to see what it does since there is not mcuh life in my tank but this seems to bee quite an aggressive method. What do you all think?

 

[Kolognekoral]

Zedar,

yeah, the C-22 thing. Agreed! In principle, the idea has always been to create as natural an environment as possible for our charges. What has changed drastically is our understanding of this environment.

My corals show their best PE evenings, without a doubt. Sure, there are a few that are naturally open during the day, but the idea of 24-7 PE is simply pushing for an aesthetic. It is not normal on a reef.

Feeding is not just feeding a tank, rather feeding the inhabitants, which tend to dine a various hours. I think most of us have long grasped this, but find the timing difficult to fit into their own schedules.

Automatic feedings would be the ideal, but, as I am one who tends to reduce equipment, rather than just add more technology, designing a natural methos has been my personal dragon. The refugium has proved to be an amazing supplement for 1) acclimating new inhabitants, 2) feeding filter feeders, 3) feeding fussy planktivores, 4) reducing PO4 and NO3 plus 5) creating another cosmos to compliment the reef display.

Since I've been using the Zeovit method, I am seeing interesting changes in the general environment of the two tanks. Corals are generally better coloured and faster growing. Most fish adapt well to the reef, but not all. Certain inhabitants are not as happy IMO. Some LPS seem to suffer, but I don't know why. Finding the correct skimmer has become a new game. What is too much-too little skimming? Must I adjust myself to the skimmer capabilities? Just how much life and at what levels can one squeeze into an aquarium?

With all the new understanding, the questions start rearranging themselves in levels of importance. Once again, we see there are many paths leading to a healthy reef aquarium.

One thing I plan to utilize for my tank is a food reactor (mentioned in another post). The idea would be to provide a constant/regular feeding of live food. Another item that has occured to me is, with an upstream refugium, can one simply use a small night light to attract plankton to the overflow? Would this increase the efficiency in general; better feeding at a better hour, harvesting on a nightly basis, which should promote faster reproduction in the refugium.

Someone must have already tried out some of this stuff, don't you think? OK, enough babble...just needed to get it out there.:hmm5: :fish1:

 

[Kolognekoral]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12536700#post12536700 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sailfintang
Quick question has anyone ver considered the Right Now! Bacteria additive and the use of the tri based pelletized carbon? I was reading about those two items reducing the po4 and no3 to 0 within a 72 hour period. I am willing to give this a try to see what it does since there is not mcuh life in my tank but this seems to bee quite an aggressive method. What do you all think?

Interesting! This is news to me. What should the carbon do?

If you have high nutrients and little to loose, your sacrafice for this scientifically motivated group would be greatly appreciated. :hammer: Here, Hear!

 

[sailfintang]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12536832#post12536832 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kolognekoral
Interesting! This is news to me. What should the carbon do?

If you have high nutrients and little to loose, your sacrafice for this scientifically motivated group would be greatly appreciated. :hammer: Here, Hear!

Well from what the reading suggests the carbon hase a greater surface area I assume for the bacteria to house or to allow the water to run over, they claim 1150 meters squared per gram. 1lbs treats 100 gallons for 2 months and keeps the po4 and no3 at zero you must soak it 24 hours before use. Then there is also a list of all the pollutants the carbon will absorb its too huge a list to post.

I have asked the retailer some questions about running the matrix reactor and cell pore media that are designed to house bacteria to see what they recommend. Also what dose to use when you have live stock in the tank, running a skimmer and powerheads, cause like we have discussed the bacteria will consume the o2 which could in turn kill what we have stocked.

I will probably order some and test it out cause my no3 are at about 10 I just want to see if it will really wliminate it. I know my po4 is low I only get some small brown algae growth every few days.

 

[Zedar]

It looks to me like the carbon has carbon in it :lol:
What I mean is the carbon is also a carbon source for the bacteria. Or am i reading this wrong?

 

[sailfintang]

Well I think yiu could be right on that Zedar and that would eliminate the need for the v/s/v mixture we are using and at $7 a pound it is still cost effective. Here is the process they state..

1- A nitrogen cycle that will ELIMINATE NITRATE AND PHOSPHTE aerobically (less need for water change)

2- More surface area to allow more bacteria to establish in your system. (Stable and stronger nitrogen cycle)

3-A bacteria that will establish fast enough to CYCLE YOUR TANK IN 24H! Yes that's Right!

How can this system remove nitrate and phosphate?
Bacteria will complete the nitrogen cycle and will change No3 into N2 (nitrogen gas that evaporate in the air!).


Similar results are obtain naturally in saltwater aquariums with live rock and/or deep sand beds where denitrifying bacteria can breakdown nitrates into harmless nitrogen gas that escapes through the water surface of the aquarium.
The system we propose you will do a similar job AÃ"°ROBICALLY!.