Zero water changes?

[Uncko Macko]

Over the last few years I have read several threads & article that mention Zero water changes. That is not my goal but very interesting. I am redesigning my sump/fuge and am thinking of adding a Jaubert plenum to the fuge.

Who here has a system that can go long periods of time without a waterchange and what type of filtration do you use?

Feedback from people who use a Jaubert plenum would be great too.

Tanks in advance.

 

[sneeyatch]

I knew a guy that ran his large system (215) for a few years and for at least 2 of those years, didn't perform a water change. He tested and dosed accordingly. I swore up and down that everything in there absorbed all of the nutrients from the saltwater making it all freshwater - LOL!

Matter of fact, when he did do a waterchange, things became very irritated so he just stopped doing them altogether.

I personally don't condone that sort of thing - I think water changes are important - JMO.

 

[jgonz_1979]

i think sneeyatch has right, it`s very dificult to add all the things being depleted in a close system because you can`t measure things like strontium,potasium,and a lot of trace elements. with a good filter system you can minimize the water changes , but i think it's not a good idea quit at all on water changes.

 

[Crowed]

IMHO-water changes are very important. Even if you could find way to export all 'bad' things, you cannot import all depleted elements.. In the past, i try to not to do water changes, it works for first 6 months or something like that, and after that time corals start to bleach. I guess that depends on what species you hold, how you feed them, how many fish you have, etc..But i dnt belive that you can hold reef aquarium without water changes, at least, not yet..

 

[Baros]

Maintaining a reef with no waterchanges is possible, if you know what your doing.

 

[Uncko Macko]

I try to do water changes once a week @ 10%. but sometimes I don't have the time. So I'll do 20% after 2 weeks. 3 weeks is the longest I've gone. The results are inconsistant. I've gone 3 weeks with good parameters and no adverse effects before. But once I left town for a week. The skimmers collection cup filled too fast and wasn't skimming. I lost SPS in under a week. My goal is not to do zero water changes. Just interested in what I have read. And most of all the Jaubert plenum or other filtration methods and brands used by people who go longer periods of time without water changes.

 

[mb167204]

Zero water changes. Started out doing that at first but It just seemed to make things more ****ed off than leaving them be.

 

[Sardaukar]

I don't think there is any mystery behind water changes. H2O is H2O, salt is salt and neither is really 'depleted' in any sense. Sea water, however, has a variety of other elements in it (Calcium, Magnesium, Strontium, etc). If you can figure out how to replace elements being lost that are important for the organisms in your tank, then you theoretically wouldn't need to do water changes. Some people seem to figure out how to do that (like mb167204), while others find it easier to simply replace a chunk of the water periodically with new salt water that contains those elements.

Personally, I find it fascinating that you can have a successful reef aquarium that uses 0 water changes, one that uses 100% water changes and ones that every possible middle ground.

 

[HANDYANDY]

water changes only when my salt loses salanity

water changes only when my salt loses salanity

6 foot skimmer recicrc 10 inches diameter with a mazi injector it rips every thing out of the water and the skimmer produces white clear water. if your skimmer doesn't run clean than its too small for your tank 0 nitrates and zero phos just dose amino acids and run carbon ,seen it and i cannot believe the colours his tri acros have .water changes shock the systems parameters ,6 months and never change water .

 

[Uncko Macko]

Thank you all.

6 foot skimmer? holy shhhhhhhhhhhh. How big is the set up? Does it have a thread?

 

[Newreeflady]

mb, how long since going zero water changes? Would you like to tell us what husbandry you practice and why you think it is that you're seeing such good results while others fail? (ie, do you feed very little, do you dose many chemicals, are you running a refuge, scrubber, skimmer, etc...?)

-A

 

[mb167204]

I got the tank in dec of 08 i believe. for the first 2 or 3 months i did 20 gallon changes but it was such a pain and my corals always looked ****ed after so i stopped. I got the tank from somebody else and it has a 20 gallon sump and a skimmer in there. (the skimmer has no name and it seems almost like someone made it maybe). I feed everyday Rods food and dose daily with two little fishes part A and B. In my sump I run cheato but I do not run phosphate/ Carbon or any other chemicals. I know some people swear by water changes and I have a 34 gallon RSM that I DO do water changes on ,but the 180 is just two much of a pain. After not doing water changes I definitely saw my corals growing faster and I think the biggest thing I do I keep my hands out of the tank and let it do what it wants. I do have a very large clean up crew in the hundreds that I got from Reefcleaners.org but if you know anything about that company you know that the clean up crew snails consist of very very small snails. Now my tank basically just grows its own snails if theres too much algae and some die off if theres too little algae.
Feel free to ask me anything else if I forgot something.

 

[tlake]

water changes every 6 months

water changes every 6 months

I set up a 36 gallon tank three years ago. It uses only a fluval canister filter filled with biomedia and activated carbon. Internal power heads and a aerator circuilate water. I cycled the water and sand, then added about 15# of live sand (no plenum, just a 3" sand bed) and 55# of live rock and a janitor package. I slowly added soft corals and fish after. The only coral that i have lost in this tank was a pink carnation (couldnt feed it enough).

Now, the tank has several leather corals, zoanthids, mushrooms, snails reproducing, coralline all over the walls, etc. I change 5 gallons of the water (vacuum the accessible gravel to pick up detritus) every 6 months. Makeup water is a kalkswasser solution, and i dose with 1. Coral Accel, 2. Iodine, 3. Strontium/Molybdenum regularly, plus Coral Vite once a month or so.

I don't do water changes on my 150g propagation tank either, but it has much more aggressive filtration, including a plenum, two protein skimmers, a canister filter, and diverse media. It has been going strong for 6 months now, filled with LPS, softies, zoas and shrooms - not a water change yet.

 

[Ninjapotamus]

I imagine with a 6 foot skimmer his tank must be massive.... probably takes the corals a lot longer to absorb the initial trace elements from that volume of water. Just my guess.

 

[Newreeflady]

I got the tank in dec of 08 i believe.
for the first 2 or 3 months i did 20 gallon changes but it was such a pain and my corals always looked ****ed after so i stopped.

Wow, about a year with no water changes, that's pretty good!


I got the tank from somebody else and it has a 20 gallon sump and a skimmer in there. (the skimmer has no name and it seems almost like someone made it maybe). I feed everyday Rods food and dose daily with two little fishes part A and B. In my sump I run cheato but I do not run phosphate/ Carbon or any other chemicals.

Wow, that's some serious feeding, actually. Does the skimmer seem to be pretty good, or would you say it's more of an oxygenation skimmer? How about the chaeto, how much do you have in there (measured in fists) and how often do you have to harvest half out?

So, your twv is more than 200g, which is def on your side. Do you think it's a matter of time before trace minerals are depleted? Also, what is your fish load? I see the yellow tang and maybe is that a trigger? What else've you got in there?

I know some people swear by water changes and I have a 34 gallon RSM that I DO do water changes on ,but the 180 is just two much of a pain. After not doing water changes I definitely saw my corals growing faster and I think the biggest thing I do I keep my hands out of the tank and let it do what it wants.

Gosh, that is something we can all learn from. Just leave it alone! I am trying to keep my hands out more now, too. I think in the beginning it's hard. Your corals certainly look top notch healthy!

I do have a very large clean up crew in the hundreds that I got from Reefcleaners.org but if you know anything about that company you know that the clean up crew snails consist of very very small snails. Now my tank basically just grows its own snails if theres too much algae and some die off if theres too little algae.
Feel free to ask me anything else if I forgot something.

I'm a fan of reefcleaners.org myself. Which critters did you get? Looks like you've got a shallow sand bed in there and I know you said you like to keep your hands out. I think a lot of people with ssb vacuum and replace, but maybe you've chosen a good variety of cleaners for the floor.

Thanks for replying. Amazing to see a thriving system that's not even been going a year and a half, and that hasn't seen water changes in over a year! Heck, something is going right, that is for sure!

Angela

 

[Newreeflady]

I set up a 36 gallon tank three years ago. It uses only a fluval canister filter filled with biomedia and activated carbon. Internal power heads and a aerator circuilate water. I cycled the water and sand, then added about 15# of live sand (no plenum, just a 3" sand bed) and 55# of live rock and a janitor package. I slowly added soft corals and fish after. The only coral that i have lost in this tank was a pink carnation (couldnt feed it enough).

Now, the tank has several leather corals, zoanthids, mushrooms, snails reproducing, coralline all over the walls, etc. I change 5 gallons of the water (vacuum the accessible gravel to pick up detritus) every 6 months. Makeup water is a kalkswasser solution, and i dose with 1. Coral Accel, 2. Iodine, 3. Strontium/Molybdenum regularly, plus Coral Vite once a month or so.

Hi there,

Good infos. That's quite a bit of stuff to dose, actually. Do you test for those chemicals? What are Coral Accel and Coral Vite?

Also, that's a ton of live rock, do you need more biomedia? What is this biomedia that you are using? How do you keep nitrates down with biomedia (not sure you have to worry about that with softies).

I don't do water changes on my 150g propagation tank either, but it has much more aggressive filtration, including a plenum, two protein skimmers, a canister filter, and diverse media. It has been going strong for 6 months now, filled with LPS, softies, zoas and shrooms - not a water change yet.

Wowza! How large is the plenum? Is it in the sump or the display? Also, again, any pix? Are the skimmers two smaller versions, or both oversized for the tank size? Do you run the canister 24/7? With carbon or micron or empty? What is this "diverse media"? Fish? While 6 months isn't a very long time to claim success, it certainly has the sounds of a tank that might go the mile with all of that filtration! -A

 

[mb167204]

Wow, that's some serious feeding, actually. Does the skimmer seem to be pretty good, or would you say it's more of an oxygenation skimmer? How about the chaeto, how much do you have in there (measured in fists) and how often do you have to harvest half out?

I really couldn't compare the skimmer as this is the first large tank Iv'e had but IMO I think it does a great job. Needs to be emptied once a week. Cheato probably halved ever 1.5-2 months. I have about a soccer ball size.

So, your twv is more than 200g, which is def on your side. Do you think it's a matter of time before trace minerals are depleted? Also, what is your fish load? I see the yellow tang and maybe is that a trigger? What else've you got in there?

Im not sure about the trace minerals as all i am adding in the two part.
stock is:
2 clowns.
filefish
yellow tang
Blue hippo tang
mandarin dragonet
Flameback angel
Diamond goby
Blue throated trigger
2 cleaner shrimp
lots and lots of brittle stars and other random inverts I cant think of off my head.






I'm a fan of reefcleaners.org myself. Which critters did you get? Looks like you've got a shallow sand bed in there and I know you said you like to keep your hands out. I think a lot of people with ssb vacuum and replace, but maybe you've chosen a good variety of cleaners for the floor.

I got bunches of dwarf ceriths, florida ceriths, nassarius, limpets, fuzzy chitons (this one is awesome), and UNFORTUNATELY blue leg hermits. These are my one regret. They have killed a lot of snails and if it wasn't for the snails constantly reproducing I would get them out.

Thanks for replying. Amazing to see a thriving system that's not even been going a year and a half, and that hasn't seen water changes in over a year! Heck, something is going right, that is for sure!

Thank you. Heres a few pics.

 

[mb167204]

Oh and I tried and tried to rid my system from bubble algae but the system came with a huge infestation so Iv'e just learned to live with it. It slowly gets less growing real estate as the corals take over.

 

[Uncko Macko]

mb, what skimmer are you using?

 

[mb167204]

"the skimmer has no name and it seems almost like someone made it maybe"