ZM's 200g build

[zoomonster]

Well where to begin... I've been at this a long time and had quite a few tanks but due to the economy (which turned me into a rogue, migratory SW engineer) I sold/gave away my last setup(s) and by todays prices probably 10's of 1000's in LPS, zoo's, paly's, ricordia, mushrooms, other softies, clams, rose anemones, fish and inverts. That also included my old side aquaculture business of zoomonster.com (no longer around). I've always been a collector and love photography and someone here decided I was not able to share my pictures by virtue of owning zoomonster.com and banned me. I was reinstated some months later but never bothered coming back until now. Hence my old membership and only a few posts. Well after selling my house and bouncing around the northeast, NC and FL I'm permanently settled in central FL. Good job, great new home, no mortgage, no CC debt, no car payment so once settled in new home can you guess what my first thought was? It's been 7 years and it's time... There's a gaping space crying out for a new tank. Yes addictions can be kicked but inevitably they return with a vengeance :lol:

After much consideration I decided to not get to carried away with size and settled on a 72" DSA 200g. I really was trying to keep cash out in reason but doesn't look like that going to happen :rolleye1: I really crossed that reasonable price boundary when I jumped from doing a 48" to a 72" tank. I guess I should mention the purpose of the tank... same as before mostly soft, LPS, fish and probably some SPS this time around.

So it begins...
Friday I laid down $2370 for a DSA 72.5 x 24.5 x 27.5 Pro with stand, overflow/plumbing, glass top, marine black back and a PVC stand liner with inside delivery from a local dealer. Should get delivery time frame today (fingers crossed sooner rather than later). Almost ordered online from saltwateraquarium.com but they were absolutely horrible to deal with i.e. not answering email or answering phone ever. Don't know what their issue is but they lost the chance of seeing a cent of what's probably going to be a 10k build.

Today I laid down a considerable chunk of change for gear/supplies bringing startup to 5200+. It sucks pretty much starting over at todays prices. I really like BRS compared to some of the other suppliers. Decent prices, same day free shipping and bonus points. Although I pretty much bought everything from them, they had, that I wanted.

Tunze Osmolator Universal 3155 Auto Top Off
BRS 5 Stage Water Saver PLUS RO/DI System - 150GPD
BRS GFO & Carbon Reactor "“ Dual with MJ1200 Pump
Red Sea Marine Care Test Kit
Red Sea Reef Foundation Pro Multi Test kit (Ca,Alk,Mg)
Apex Controller Gold System - Neptune Systems
Geo 618 Calcium Reactor
5 Gallon - BRS Bulk Small Particle Lignite Carbon
1 Gallon (4 lbs.) - BRS Bulk GFO
2x CaribSea ARM Reactor Media "“ Coarse
2x Instant Ocean Sea Salt Mix 200 Gallon Box
Refractometer
Super Reef Octopus XP3000I 10" Cone In Sump Skimmer.

To be continued...

 

[zoomonster]

Now for the unresolved/not yet purchased items. This is were I'm particularly interested in suggestions.

Sump/Refugium
Having a hard time with this one. I really like lifereef Compact LifeReefugium II (other than power sucking mag pumps and a skimmer I don't really want)but I'm not waiting until Sept or Oct to get one built. For years they have been running those delays. So as it stands right now the only good option I can find is the Precision Marine R36+. Problem there is the place I found that sells them is trying to tack on $1700 truck freight to it when you try and order online. Have to call them on that. The R36 gets about $86 tacked on for oversize on free shipping. Actually I just found another place for a total with shipping of $458 which is better than the other place anyway (still over priced). I just want a good quality solution ready to go out the box. I thought about the 40g breeder route but not going to do it. Most everything else I've found is just too cheap in terms of materials and quality and/or poorly laid out. Still kinda on the fence on what to buy.

Return Pump
Leaning towards a Eheim 1262 or compact 5000. Probably would have bought already if BRS had stock. Still kinda interested in DC but very leery of mixed reviews and Chinese stuff. Open to suggestions. I'm shooting for a moderate water flow in the 900-1200 range.

CO2
I've always used Kalk and/or turbo calcium so the Geo 618 is my first reactor. Still looking to see if I going to buy or just rent CO2 tanks. As far as regulator and solenoid still undecided and looking for suggestions.

Lighting
Toughie... I don't really want hanging. I could do it but sloped textured ceiling and would like to avoid. Hanging or otherwise most have a piecemeal look so what I really want is a single 72" on tank fixture. I've used pretty much every form of lighting and this time around is no exception for decisions, decisions. For what I want and a price in reason it looks like I have 2 options. A Hamilton 72" fixture (~1200) with Halides/T5's or a Sunbrite 72" F series V3 LED fixture (~1400). Leaning towards the Sunbrite but waiting to hear if my authorized dealer can get them anytime soon. Apparently they are having a hard time getting hold of the one man US contact and they are transitioning the fixtures from V2 to V3. To put things in perspective Vertex Illumina SR360 runs $4,029.99 and others like Radeon are up their also when you piece together enough lights for a 72" tank. Really want to do LED and avoid heat, power drain and bulb replacement of halide. But I'm not paying 3000-4000 for lighting. Downside to the Sunbrite is what seems to be an inability to control from Apex or anything but smartphone.

 

[ntrlsur]

Great start. I am going to be tagging along for this build. I would suggest taking a look at the AI SOL LEDS. I have seen some great information on them and the area they can cover with not alot of fixtures. I am getting information together to start a build of my own ( I am currently a freshwater guy) so will be keeping a eye up to see how this comes along.

 

[RJT]

You are going to have a great system.

For the sump I would do a 75g tank and put the baffles in yourself.

 

[zoomonster]

Well sump resolved... I did consider glass tanks but I really don't want to be bothered at this point and I wanted Plexiglas. I bounced around to just about every conceivable website and the precision marine R36+ was still the best option. I've built more than my share of sumps, reactors, topoffs, plenums etc. but not this time around. I have plenty of room for my tank with one catch... I don't have a basement below (I miss that from my old house up north) or room behind so everything needs to be self contained beneath the stand (except fresh RO/salt water processing which will probably go in the garage). And its a family room show tank so no extraneous items next to the tank that can be helped. When all's said and done with sump/fuge, calc, controller etc. I would like to have room for a 5-7g topoff container and room for a chiller should I later decide I need one. Well ventilated room and central AC that usually runs in the 74-78 range so hopefully that's never the case. If I end up avoiding halides that's even better.

The precision items are almost all ship from manufacturer and TB aquatics ended up having the best price with the least amount tacked on for oversize/overweight shipping for the R36+.

So running total is up to ~5660. When I get a pump, CO2, heaters and assuming I get the $1400 light I want I should come in around $7600 including some incidentals like hose, pvc etc. That's about $1100-1600 above my original estimate. A lot of that was I ended up spending more on a skimmer and sump than planned. Oh well you only live once :smokin:

 

[zoomonster]

Slowly moving along... I suspect everything will be here well before the tank. DSA has evolved to the classic American bloated distribution model and I still don't have even an estimated date. It seems it is 3 tiered now... authorized shop, distributor (Hagen! who handles delivery) and DSA. Hopefully by the time I get the tank info they will also have some idea on when the F series V3 sunbright will be available. I still have a variety of lights around and I can use my 48" Hamilton Halide/VHO to start the tank if need be. I was rummaging around in the garage and have a bunch of lights I should get rid of. I have the Hamiltion, a 3 (w/ moonlights) and 4ft PPC, a 400w halide pendant and a 1k HPS (well that one was for hydro). I may keep the 400w halide as I'm sure I will eventually setup a smaller quarantine/frag tank in my home office/man cave.

Anyways... still undecided on a few things but I wrapped up the CO2 solution for my calcium reactor. Here again went over budget but I think this was well worth it in the long run. Seems to be the hands down least hassle, best quality and warranty. These are sold by aquariumplants.com.

CarbonDoser Electronic Co2 Regulator
Check Valve (medical grade)
Regulator Wrench
Perma-Seal
Aluminum Co2 Cylinder(10 lbs)(empty)

That brings the running total to $6038.

P.S. A lot of people don't share costs of what they undertake for whatever reason. I'm doing it to make a point... what it actually takes and what it costs to build a system today. What I'm building is fairly high end and on the lower end of "large" and yes you could do it for less. But its not really less with any system if you take the cheapest route and end up continuously replacing components that fail or are inadequate. That's not to say you can't build a good system for less with more DIY and less automation. Price/performance is what really matters to me. Same applies when I build computers for myself. Trust me I started on the low end of salt water and have evolved. My first salt tank (~1990) was a AGA 55g, under gravel filter, crappy fl lights and eventually a crappy Saunders air stone skimmer and a wet dry nitrate factory. Too many people see a tank at some place like petco and a few colorful salt fish and have to have it w/o ever realizing what it takes to keep fish let alone corals in terms of time and $$ and fail/leave the hobby.

 

[ntrlsur]

Thanks for the information zoomonster. I am thinking about getting in to the hobby. Have been a fresh water guy for years but there is a alot for me to learn with marine.

 

[zoomonster]

Well UPS showed up today with the load of stuff from BRS. Pretty well packaged and fast delivery but one small issue... they sent the wrong calcium reactor. Thought something looked wrong and figured out from pics it was a Geo CR418 instead of a CR618 (not just size but 418 is more cheaply plumbed). Called them up and no problem they looked and acknowledged they sent the wrong one. They are paying for return shipping but won't send what I ordered until they get the 418 back. So that ends up being about a 2 week turnaround because of UPS and weekends. If I was ready to build I would be pretty ****ed off. They did give me $40 in store credit for the hassle. Also questionable is they sent a Eheim universal 600 marked for the CR618. That's not the Eheim 1048 pump advertised as mounted to the base. Maybe Geo changed something but we'll see. Here's a pic of the hardware part of the order less the calcium reactor. Does not do justice to skimmer... its a monster.

 

[zoomonster]

skimmer

skimmer

I put the XP3000int skimmer together for a bathtub test drive. Assembly could not be any simpler and unit is exceptional quality. Disassembly for cleaning should be a breeze too. When its in sump I will adjust orientation of things, trim that airline and hookup the cup drain line (cup is huge though). That us/brit pipe on drain will also get replaced with a down turn for quieter operation. The only negative comment I would make is about the lid. The lid is ventilated with 8 holes on top. Even if I don't use ozone (probably will in the end) the stench of skimmate will be oozing out the top. I took a look and don't see anything premade so I guess I will be making a homemade carbon cap for it. Last thing I need is wife *****ing about smell. If anyone knows of a part other than DIY let me know please.

 

[zoomonster]

Just an afterthought but I'm going to put together a small carbon canister air filter for the air intake on the skimmer. Always a good idea to keep aerosols and other household toxins from being direct injected into the tank. Might even still have the one around issued to run on my air pump.

 

[dave.m]

I vaguely recall reading somewhere that GAC can heat up quickly when air is being drawn through it. I don't know that for a fact, but it might be something to watch for, at least at first.

Dave.M

 

[zoomonster]

I vaguely recall reading somewhere that GAC can heat up quickly when air is being drawn through it. I don't know that for a fact, but it might be something to watch for, at least at first.

Dave.M

Hmmm... I will have to check that out. Like I said before I have used carbon canister air filters before but for less air flow. If nothing else I may just use carbon impregnated material like you would find on HEPA air cleaner pre-filter.

 

[petere1989]

i have that skimmer. you will be very happy with it. keep up the updates!

 

[zoomonster]

Pump

Pump

I've been going back and forth and finally broke down and got a pump which was a departure from my original plan of a classic pump like the Eheim 1262. I finally caved and bought a Waveline DC6000 pump. That gives me more controlled capacity I can dial in, less power drain and less heat. That pump seems to fall in the category of best price/performance for me. It would have been nice if they had of ever produced the promised Apex control but oh well. In all reality once dialed in to desired flow it won't ever get changed anyway and the Apex will still shut it down for a feed cycle. Diablo crossed my mind but a vender I spoke to told me they have been discontinued. There's been a lot of back and forth and name calling but from what I've gathered all the other DC pumps (except Royal) are Chinese knockoffs of the Waveline anyway. In the end its all Chinese anyway. Hopefully the pump will last a while, perform and I won't regret the decision.

I also picked up a Neptune probe holder, titanium ground (already have one) and a Nextreef ML1 reactor. I'm planning on filling the ML1 up with aragonite and running the effluent from the Geo 618 calc reactor through it before hitting the sump. Its pretty good size and I can hang it on my sump if I want.

BTW this batch of goods came from Salty Supply and brings the running total to 6383. Pretty good prices and even though I had to pay sales tax shipping was free and one of their 5% discount codes almost offset the 6% tax. That saved me a 30-40 minute trip to pick it up. Hadn't realized until now they are local but they don't have a showroom just pickup.

 

[zoomonster]

Well short of a light setup and hitting Lowes/HD for PVC pretty much everything is either here or will be shortly. Well hopefully sooner rather than later on tank.

I had a small change of plans and decided to add a second PM1 to Apex. I had enough BRS points to cover that and I got another temp and lab PH probe. So now I will have temp in tank and sump along with PH in tank or sump and in calcium reactor.

I also got a auto shutoff setup for the RO/DI and a 1" backflow valve for the tank return. Almost forgot that. I could have gotten a cheaper backflow from Lowes but opted for a little better one with unions.

The last thing I bought was something I've probably looked at more than anything else... heaters. Just so much garbage and I don't think there is a model out there that has not had major complaints/issues. I eventually settled for lack of better choice on a couple of glass 300w Eheim-Jager's rather than titanium. Its warm for some time to come here and that should be sufficient to handle the AC temps. Technically I should have about 800w but I'll add another if need be. Even the Jagers have supposedly gone down hill since Eheim bought them from Ebo. Those will get manually set and then backed up by the Apex.

Speaking of PVC I'm debating using all schedule 80 if nothing else for aesthetics. I think the backflow is 80 so I will likely need to use at least part 80. Fittings are not much more for 3/4 and 1" that I will need. Pipes considerably more but oh well I probably can get by with a 10' section of each. Its convenient that Lowes is 5 minutes away when doing projects like this.

The one thing I have not mentioned is powerheads/wavemaker. I'm pretty well undecided and saving that for last. If I can find something used I might use Vortech 40's. I'm just not of mind to pay 930 for two MP40 powerheads plus accessories (not that all are required). I'm leaning towards the latest FS14000 (improved WP40) Jebao Twins setup at around $150+40 shipping from HK if I buy new. I just checked craiglist and at best two different Vortech offerings at 350-375 each. For that price might as well be new with warranty.

 

[ntrlsur]

I am a big fan of schedule 80 for the plumbing. Its just a better grade of PVC and looks 100% better then schedule 40.. As for the pumps I have 2 jebeo 25's and I like the updated controller or better yet since you are going to be running apex pick up the reef angel cable for jebeo and build a cat5 cable to connect to the apex VDM and you can control the pumps directly from the apex. The pumps are about 50 to 70 bucks the reef angel cable is 25 and everyone has a cat5 cable lying around. Check out http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/general-discussion/143186-jebao-wp-40-a.html for a little bit more information about it.

 

[Reefsi]

Nice startup! I recently took on a 240+ DIY 100g acrylic sump you can check it out under large tanks reefsi's 240 in wall. This is a hobby not a battle in cost, I think it is a good thing to mention costs in a build as well so some people really realize what they are undertaking. I have yet to really add up my cost, but i know I'm right around the 10k mark at the moment. Way more than I expected due to some of the extras I added, and didn't expect. I think you will realize as well that you get one thing and forget that it leads to another cost somewhere else. For instance I bet you didn't think of the fact that you bought an apex controller and a calc reactor. Now you have to purchase an additional PM1 module and Lab grade PH probe. Another 200 bucks right there!

Happy reefing!

We are undergoing similar adventures, Ill be tagging along watching your build.

 

[zoomonster]

I am a big fan of schedule 80 for the plumbing. Its just a better grade of PVC and looks 100% better then schedule 40.. As for the pumps I have 2 jebeo 25's and I like the updated controller or better yet since you are going to be running apex pick up the reef angel cable for jebeo and build a cat5 cable to connect to the apex VDM and you can control the pumps directly from the apex. The pumps are about 50 to 70 bucks the reef angel cable is 25 and everyone has a cat5 cable lying around. Check out http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/general-discussion/143186-jebao-wp-40-a.html for a little bit more information about it.

Yep pretty sure it will be schedule 80. Thanks for the link. I've seen some of those threads and will probably do that eventually. At least to start I'll probably just use two Jebaos and their controller.

 

[zoomonster]

Nice startup! I recently took on a 240+ DIY 100g acrylic sump you can check it out under large tanks reefsi's 240 in wall. This is a hobby not a battle in cost, I think it is a good thing to mention costs in a build as well so some people really realize what they are undertaking. I have yet to really add up my cost, but i know I'm right around the 10k mark at the moment. Way more than I expected due to some of the extras I added, and didn't expect. I think you will realize as well that you get one thing and forget that it leads to another cost somewhere else. For instance I bet you didn't think of the fact that you bought an apex controller and a calc reactor. Now you have to purchase an additional PM1 module and Lab grade PH probe. Another 200 bucks right there!

Happy reefing!

We are undergoing similar adventures, Ill be tagging along watching your build.

Thanks... Fortunately I have some rock but by the time I buy more, buy sand, get lights, get powerheads and eventually add a first batch of fish and inverts I will probably easily be at the 10k mark too. Once the setup is completed I will likely stop tracking cost. As the fish and coral population progresses it just too depressing to track cost.

I think I kind of glossed over the second PM1 setup. I do have an older aquacontroller pro I think I figured on maybe using or the probes. Still need another PM1 so I bought one this weekend with store credit and added temp and PH probes. The AC pro PH and orp probes may be shot anyway but that unit will likely get used later to at least monitor/control a second backroom frag tank. Lol that obsolete controller w/probes and all the X11 modules was over a grand itself.

 

[Reefsi]

Yeah, fortunately I had 250lbs of live rock from previous tanks. RO/DI unit from previous tanks and some other little things. It would be interesting to add things up. I haven't added anything to my tank yet, the wait sucks lol