ZM's 200g build
- Thread starter zoomonster
- Start date
zoomonster
New member
Don't know exactly but if the original estimate holds hopefully sometime between now and mid May. Sooner of course would be better.
The tank is going in front of a 72" window and I need to do a little prep anyway. I need to go pickup another 72" blind for it, put them up and trim length (pain in the ***). I also want to replace the two outlets on either side of tank with new premium 20 amp rated outlets. The only downside to the location is the outlets are on either side. Would have been nice if they were behind tank but I'm not going to rip out that wall to put in an outlet. I also want to check out exactly which circuit those are on and if its one of the 15a breakers switch it out with a 20a. They were pretty generous with circuits when they built this house so hopefully I have plenty of power and not much else on that circuit. I will use at least a surge protector for the Apex but the main panel also has a Intermatic dual line surge protector. Just want to make sure I have adequate power, especially if I do metal halide, and protect everything from surge. Not quite as bad here as the west coast of FL but lightning is plentiful. Even before deciding to dive back into a reef tank I was looking at a whole house generator and that will probably happen near future. I can run the fridge, freezer and aquarium on a portable but trust me you don't want to sit in a house in FL during the summer after a hurricane with no power for days to possibly weeks with no AC for the heat and humidity.
I did a manual whole house generator power 10 circuits that I put in myself. The transfer panel kit was less then 300 and it took me about 2 hours to wire it all up. My generator is 8500 watts so I can power the AC and most of the important house circuits. You can pick up the stand alone system for for under 5k on amazon and install it yourself if you are handy. It comes with a 200amp transfer panel and its a 20K generator. Check out http://www.amazon.com/Generac-6244-...=1398374367&sr=1-2&keywords=generac+generator If you have a few bucks burning a whole in your pocket. 
zoomonster
New member
I did a manual whole house generator power 10 circuits that I put in myself. The transfer panel kit was less then 300 and it took me about 2 hours to wire it all up. My generator is 8500 watts so I can power the AC and most of the important house circuits. You can pick up the stand alone system for for under 5k on amazon and install it yourself if you are handy. It comes with a 200amp transfer panel and its a 20K generator. Check out http://www.amazon.com/Generac-6244-...=1398374367&sr=1-2&keywords=generac+generator If you have a few bucks burning a whole in your pocket.
Yep pretty much what I was looking at... Generac centurion or guardian with 200amp transfer switch. I do a lot of electrical work but I probably would not tackle that hookup myself. I have a electrician buddy that would hook it all up pretty cheap and the only other thing I have not priced is getting a buried propane tank and of course filling it. Even at less power output I would prefer natural gas over propane but no gas here. LOL I curse that every time I have to get propane tanks refilled for my grill.
zoomonster
New member
The Jebao FS 14000's and twins controller showed up today. A few flaws with connections but overall not bad for the money. I filled the bathtub and gave them and the skimmer a test drive. They seem to work well and the modes and control are pretty good as well as being pretty quiet. Actually on full power they churn the tub right up there with the tub jets. As long as those magnets hold on my glass it should be good.
zoomonster
New member
Nope power supply is just a brick that looks like it was a laptop power supply.
zoomonster
New member
Not too much going on... pretty idle waiting on tank but I have to go out of town for 4 days anyway. I did go to Reef-A-Palooza on Saturday. That was quite the ordeal with horrid traffic on I-4, no parking (finally grabbed a spot after driving around 30 minutes), $15 to get in plus $8.5 for parking and the place was pretty well mobbed. I cruised the place a few times and left. I had hoped to maybe pick up a few misc. hard items but there was little there other than frags. Probably 80% frag peddlers and the rest mostly manufacturers. It did allow me to see pretty much every sort of LED in action either on frag tanks or displays. Like I said elsewhere not too impressed. As far as the show goes I hope they continue to improve on it and a good start would be not allowing the vendors to take up so much of the limited visitor parking with trucks and trailers.
On the soapbox for a moment... I really hate seeing what this hobby has become(show was a real clear picture). There is still limited aqua/maraculture going on with few places other than ORA standing out. When I left the hobby frags were mostly about hobbyists sharing cuttings which was a good thing. Now, the way I see it, its all about greed and nothing to do with conservation. Most of the frag peddlers are not growing anything but are more likely just buying up all the display-specimen pieces, chopping them up and selling a tiny frag at inflated prices. That's makes the normal pieces you used to be able to buy in store more expensive or non-existent because all the "good" stuff is being high jacked at the importers/wholesalers and sent to the band saw. Zoo's/Ricordia used to be my thing and that has just totally spun out of control with people peddling frags at 20-100's per polyp. Granted there's exceptions with some truly rare items but that does not seem to be the norm.
On the soapbox for a moment... I really hate seeing what this hobby has become(show was a real clear picture). There is still limited aqua/maraculture going on with few places other than ORA standing out. When I left the hobby frags were mostly about hobbyists sharing cuttings which was a good thing. Now, the way I see it, its all about greed and nothing to do with conservation. Most of the frag peddlers are not growing anything but are more likely just buying up all the display-specimen pieces, chopping them up and selling a tiny frag at inflated prices. That's makes the normal pieces you used to be able to buy in store more expensive or non-existent because all the "good" stuff is being high jacked at the importers/wholesalers and sent to the band saw. Zoo's/Ricordia used to be my thing and that has just totally spun out of control with people peddling frags at 20-100's per polyp. Granted there's exceptions with some truly rare items but that does not seem to be the norm.
zoomonster
New member
Hurry up and wait
Hurry up and wait
I got an email forwarded to me via LFS from DSA...
"We have experienced a raw materials issue"¦.our molding vendor ran out. We anticipate a shipment on Monday. We anticipate this tank will be ready to ship on or about 5/15/14.
Sorry for the delay." :mad2:
Hurry up and wait
I got an email forwarded to me via LFS from DSA...
"We have experienced a raw materials issue"¦.our molding vendor ran out. We anticipate a shipment on Monday. We anticipate this tank will be ready to ship on or about 5/15/14.
Sorry for the delay." :mad2:
I had that happen to me before and waiting more time felt like an eternity. I don't like when they use the word should, maybe, or, expected, and anticipate. My LFS sold me some stuff at cost ( so they say) for the inconvenience. Good luck.
Reefsi
New member
Wow, I would be pretty ticked off as well. I did the opposite, did the waiting till I had the tank and then ordered all my stuff as I put things together over the course of a month. Actually takes longer than I thought to do all the plumbing/planing/wiring and setting up. Took me a good 4-5 hours a day for 3 weeks, with some beer of course
zoomonster
New member
Wow, I would be pretty ticked off as well. I did the opposite, did the waiting till I had the tank and then ordered all my stuff as I put things together over the course of a month. Actually takes longer than I thought to do all the plumbing/planing/wiring and setting up. Took me a good 4-5 hours a day for 3 weeks, with some beer of course
Well I did order most everything all together... DSA makes great tanks and I knew they were a bit on the slow side but never figured it to take quite this long. What really messed it up was Hagen not being able to handle the so called custom order. Its a standard DSA 200g reef tank/stand and all I wanted was the PVC stand liner and the black tank back. Just that required a custom tank drawing from DSA that had to be approved. If I had of gotten the PVC tank liner that would really have screwed them up lol.
Fortunately I work fulltime at home. So when the tank gets here, unless some major issue, I hope to at least get water flowing in a week and start on the subsystems. Hopefully Apex will just work... I think it was CaptAndrew who just recently said he had all sorts of firmware issues when he set his build up.
zoomonster
New member
Well the rocks have been rattling around in my head and I finally made a lighting decision (actually pulled the trigger and ordered). It was truly a hard decision to make with all the options having tradeoffs. I came very close to going LED but just could not do it. Nothing to do with money as I was close to buying three hydra 52's + tank mounts + wxm for Apex. I've absorbed a load of info over the past few months but ultimately it was probably d2mini's thread that helped swing the scale back towards MH along with all the others abandoning LED.
I looked at a number of options but always came back to the Hamilton Cebu Sun which has ok aesthetics, raw power and 4x80w T5 HO's. Even some of the more expensive units only came in with two T5's. I've owned several Hamilton fixtures over the years and never had a complaint so that played into the decision. Liverockandreef had the best price by far. Considering its a ship from manufacturer item it amazing the price variance between shops is in the 100's.
72" Black Cebu Sun Fixture
3x250w SE 14k Hamilton bulbs
4x80w T5 Super Actinic
3x Electronic dimmable ballasts
Internal T5 ballasts
LED Moonlights
Tank legs
$1094.88 shipped
I've always used 10k's with actinics but decided to split the difference this time with 14k. I probably eventually will go to 20k's when the 14k's wear out but for a new tank 14k should give me a good balance of better growth and good coloration. Later I may also mix up the T5 mixture of bulbs. As far as ballasts magnetic may have been better for some bulbs but the electronic versions run cooler, use less energy, take up less space, are dimmable and will run virtually any bulb. The plus to the dimming is it will also overdrive. It would have been nice if the ballasts were switchable 250/400 but oh well. Granted they are manually switched but allow running a 250W bulb at 125W/190W/250W/275W. There won't be a whole lot of bells and whistles as far as Apex control goes but with an Apex schedule I'll get moonlight, 1 bank T5 on, 2 bank T5 on and probably staggered MH's on. I guess I will need to be ordering another power bar for the Apex.
An interesting calculation d2mini made was that this fixture only uses about $100 more a year in electric vs. the 4 x Radions he replaced (and he's using M80 magnetic ballasts). I'm fortunate to have what's supposed to be the cheapest electricity in the state so the difference should be trivial. As far as replacing bulbs the $1230 saving over the Hydra 52 setup I was going to go with buys a lot of bulbs. By the time I spend out the $1200+ the Hydra 52's would probably be well obsolete and suffering from significantly diminished PAR and/or requiring expensive new pucks. Sure there will be more heat but my house seldom varies from the 74-78F range during the day and the room is well ventilated so I should be able to get by w/o a chiller. If not then so be it... In a few years maybe LED's will reach full potential and prices will come down. Funny thing is I remember being at Champion Lighting in PA years ago (probably early 2000's) talking to the owner about LED's soon being available for reef lighting. Progress and cost effectiveness has still really not gotten there. I have put in almost all led lighting in my house but that's mostly to do with prices finally coming into reason like $9 for a 60w led light vs. $25+ very recently. I still want to go LED on the 14 or so Halogen can lights in my house but those prices are still up there. LED is the future of reef lighting but not yet as far as I'm concerned.
I looked at a number of options but always came back to the Hamilton Cebu Sun which has ok aesthetics, raw power and 4x80w T5 HO's. Even some of the more expensive units only came in with two T5's. I've owned several Hamilton fixtures over the years and never had a complaint so that played into the decision. Liverockandreef had the best price by far. Considering its a ship from manufacturer item it amazing the price variance between shops is in the 100's.
72" Black Cebu Sun Fixture
3x250w SE 14k Hamilton bulbs
4x80w T5 Super Actinic
3x Electronic dimmable ballasts
Internal T5 ballasts
LED Moonlights
Tank legs
$1094.88 shipped
I've always used 10k's with actinics but decided to split the difference this time with 14k. I probably eventually will go to 20k's when the 14k's wear out but for a new tank 14k should give me a good balance of better growth and good coloration. Later I may also mix up the T5 mixture of bulbs. As far as ballasts magnetic may have been better for some bulbs but the electronic versions run cooler, use less energy, take up less space, are dimmable and will run virtually any bulb. The plus to the dimming is it will also overdrive. It would have been nice if the ballasts were switchable 250/400 but oh well. Granted they are manually switched but allow running a 250W bulb at 125W/190W/250W/275W. There won't be a whole lot of bells and whistles as far as Apex control goes but with an Apex schedule I'll get moonlight, 1 bank T5 on, 2 bank T5 on and probably staggered MH's on. I guess I will need to be ordering another power bar for the Apex.
An interesting calculation d2mini made was that this fixture only uses about $100 more a year in electric vs. the 4 x Radions he replaced (and he's using M80 magnetic ballasts). I'm fortunate to have what's supposed to be the cheapest electricity in the state so the difference should be trivial. As far as replacing bulbs the $1230 saving over the Hydra 52 setup I was going to go with buys a lot of bulbs. By the time I spend out the $1200+ the Hydra 52's would probably be well obsolete and suffering from significantly diminished PAR and/or requiring expensive new pucks. Sure there will be more heat but my house seldom varies from the 74-78F range during the day and the room is well ventilated so I should be able to get by w/o a chiller. If not then so be it... In a few years maybe LED's will reach full potential and prices will come down. Funny thing is I remember being at Champion Lighting in PA years ago (probably early 2000's) talking to the owner about LED's soon being available for reef lighting. Progress and cost effectiveness has still really not gotten there. I have put in almost all led lighting in my house but that's mostly to do with prices finally coming into reason like $9 for a 60w led light vs. $25+ very recently. I still want to go LED on the 14 or so Halogen can lights in my house but those prices are still up there. LED is the future of reef lighting but not yet as far as I'm concerned.
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zoomonster
New member
Rock
Rock
Well finally got into the garage (buried still from recent move) and pulled out what rock I had saved. Didn't bother to weigh but probably about 100 pounds. Not everything I used to have but better than nothing and glad I saved it with prices what they are today. Stuff has come and gone over the years but the bulk of what I originally bought was Marshall and Hawaiian with some Tonga and Fiji mixed in. I probably only have about 6 pieces of what could be called large left and the rest mostly medium and some small. Some of that smaller stuff will go in refugium and some for mounting frags the way they should be.
I've been looking around and not sure what rock I'm going to buy to seed the tank and dead rock. I'm kind of leaning towards Aquacon which ships from FL so UPS ground is overnight. Not decided yet but may get 50 pounds of mixed Pacific, Namoli, Bali Alor, Vanuatu to start. I'm going to try and do a better job of aquascaping this time around and deviate some from the old school mentality of stacking a tank with a huge rock wall. Of course rock is there for more than decoration and a place to park corals. Some of the aquascaping I have seen is just to sparse and decorative for a healthy tank long term (unless you have the luxury of a large remote sump for additional rock). Plus some of the stuff I have seen makes me wonder how long until it falls and breaks glass.
So this weekends project is cleaning this stuff. I just need to pickup some muriatic acid which my pool is also in need of. If my pool was a reef tank the PH would be right on the money.
Rock
Well finally got into the garage (buried still from recent move) and pulled out what rock I had saved. Didn't bother to weigh but probably about 100 pounds. Not everything I used to have but better than nothing and glad I saved it with prices what they are today. Stuff has come and gone over the years but the bulk of what I originally bought was Marshall and Hawaiian with some Tonga and Fiji mixed in. I probably only have about 6 pieces of what could be called large left and the rest mostly medium and some small. Some of that smaller stuff will go in refugium and some for mounting frags the way they should be.
I've been looking around and not sure what rock I'm going to buy to seed the tank and dead rock. I'm kind of leaning towards Aquacon which ships from FL so UPS ground is overnight. Not decided yet but may get 50 pounds of mixed Pacific, Namoli, Bali Alor, Vanuatu to start. I'm going to try and do a better job of aquascaping this time around and deviate some from the old school mentality of stacking a tank with a huge rock wall. Of course rock is there for more than decoration and a place to park corals. Some of the aquascaping I have seen is just to sparse and decorative for a healthy tank long term (unless you have the luxury of a large remote sump for additional rock). Plus some of the stuff I have seen makes me wonder how long until it falls and breaks glass.
So this weekends project is cleaning this stuff. I just need to pickup some muriatic acid which my pool is also in need of. If my pool was a reef tank the PH would be right on the money.
zoomonster
New member
I went ahead and ordered another Apex energy bar 8 today so I have more controllable power with all the added connections from the lighting I ordered. Since I wanted it anyway I grabbed the Apex leak detection module and sensor to make free shipping. So hopefully when the tank shows in the next couple weeks I'm set with everything on hand to assemble. Well except for a trip to Lowes/HD to pickup assorted plumbing stuff. That can wait for the tank to arrive so I can better visualize what I need.
zoomonster
New member
I ended up having to run to Lowes yesterday afternoon so I picked up the rock cleaning stuff. Two pack of Kem-tek muriatic acid, 3 boxes of baking soda and some long nitrile gloves. The acid was in the pool section and $11.99 for two pack of "contractor" strength 31.45%. It only took a couple hours last night.
I used an old sterilite 45g container, an old Mag 7 and of course safety glasses and a garden hose outdoors in an open area staying up wind of the tub. I really just wanted a light etching on the rock and didn't want to over do it like I've seen in a lot of posts. There was some old algae left on some of the rock and probably should have bleached it but it hosed right off after the acid. That rock has been in storage at least 8 years and the hair algae that remained was still green and even looked alive after rehydration and acid!!
It took two container runs to get all the rock done and I just used 1 gallon of acid and about 1.5 boxes of baking soda per. I really think some over do it on the baking soda and that's why they end up with hard encrusted soda on the rock. As far as the acid goes there was no mm's of rock removed or other destruction some have experienced with certain types of rock and/or excess use of acid.
1) Tub with rock and pump filled with water
2) Acid added
3) I did occasionally knock the foam head off with light water spray to help carry away the worst of the grunge that the foam traps.
4) No real timing but just waited until the reaction stopped at < 1 hour.
5) Lightly sprinkle on about 1/2 a box of baking soda at a time and wait for reaction to stop. By the 3rd .5 box the reaction done.
6) Attached hose to Mag 7 and drained.
7) Refilled with fresh water and allowed to circulate a while with fresh water running in/overflowing.
8) Rocks removed and hosed down to remove any leftover green stuff. That and any grunge hoses right off.
I also picked up some new 20a GFCI outlets but feeling kinda lazy today. Maybe sometime this weekend...
zoomonster
New member
Well aside from my issues with LED's I need on tank mounting and I'm not using a canopy. Most of the companies just build boxes and its up to you to figure out how to mount anything other than hanging (with some Chinese stuff that's not even a given). There might be some 3rd party stuff but Ecotech along with most other companies offer little. Aside from liking AI Hydra 52 in general they have pretty good on tank mounting options in the EXT rails/tank mounts. That's one reason I was considering them. Razor also has some ok mounts but that's another story. I'm not getting into the light ****ing threads and to each his own but to date LED's have failed to take the place of MH/T5 and produce consistently good results IMO. Like I said before the choice was not about cost but about performance. I'm just glad I started when I did and got the benefit of the experience of others before I tossed a wad of cash at technology I would have probably ended up not being happy with and replacing.
zoomonster
New member
Heat
Heat
A while back I had gotten 2 Eheim Jager 300w heaters and realized they were way to long to go anywhere in sump. I ended up just keeping them vs. the hassle of returning them. I'll keep them around for backup, a frag/quarantine tank etc.
In the meantime I got a heater that should do the job and has a decent warranty. I ordered a Coralvue 800w titanium and controller which will still get backed up by Apex. Guess I was missing the sites that carried this one in the past. From what I could find they seemed to have pretty good reviews as compared to some others. Although like pretty much all titanium heaters there have been some issues but I'm going to give it a try. There's just little to nothing in the way of titanium heaters that have not rated a "don't buy" on more than one occasion.
Eventually if I need to add a chiller and/or fans I may get a Ranco controller to run it all.
Heat
A while back I had gotten 2 Eheim Jager 300w heaters and realized they were way to long to go anywhere in sump. I ended up just keeping them vs. the hassle of returning them. I'll keep them around for backup, a frag/quarantine tank etc.
In the meantime I got a heater that should do the job and has a decent warranty. I ordered a Coralvue 800w titanium and controller which will still get backed up by Apex. Guess I was missing the sites that carried this one in the past. From what I could find they seemed to have pretty good reviews as compared to some others. Although like pretty much all titanium heaters there have been some issues but I'm going to give it a try. There's just little to nothing in the way of titanium heaters that have not rated a "don't buy" on more than one occasion.
Eventually if I need to add a chiller and/or fans I may get a Ranco controller to run it all.
