zoa coloration factors

[tyler91913]

Just wondering if there are any good rules of thumb about shifting zoa coloration in the reef aquarium. I know that the received wisdom is that every zoa is its own individual, and some will fare better than others under the same circumstances. That's good advice. But do we know if, for example, higher flow results in shorter skirts? Or do we know if more light results in lighter, brighter or faded colors (and conversely, lower-light situations would yield darker, richer colors)? I'd love to hear from folks who have experimented with this what their own experience was. It'd also be great to look at an article or two if anyone knows of more scientific testing on this or related questions.

 

[A. Grandis]

It's all very, very relative.
There is way too many variables on the topic and we just can't generalize.
We already know that.
There is absolutely no rules.

I can tell you one thing: if you quarantine your polyps, keep a stable system, with quality light, favorable flow, good water chemistry, right temperature, maintenance and target feed your polyps with the right food, they will do great.

If I had to choose one of the topics related to zoa colors from the above I would choose target feeding. No doubt, assuming the other factors are well kept.

I would like to see some articles on zoa colors also!
Let's hope for the answers.

My US$.02

Grandis.

 

[wireefman]

If I had to choose one of the topics related to zoa colors from the above I would choose target feeding. No doubt, assuming the other factors are well kept.

Grandis.

interesting, i would think light spectrum would play more on color than food... but i would say food for growth

 

[Dapg8gt]

I have great colors on mine and target feed oyster feast twice a month and phyto to the tank weekly sometimes coral frenzy.what are you guys feeding with? Sometimes I'll give some of the juice from mysis/brine but mostly filter it out. Mine seem to do the same under intense light and average light. But my tank is pretty bright in all areas.

 

[wireefman]

ive always fed my z&p a meaty mix... actually i just brodcast feed my fish food, after the lights go out for a bit...
salmon, oyster, mysis, nori, silversides, scalops, soaked in zelcon. (this can change depending on what coastal seafoods has in stock and quality of said seafood).. and some times ill add rods food, or oyster feast...

i make 2 seperate batches... a fish bag and a coral bag... only diff is the meaty stuff is more finely chopped for the coral bag

 

[91Atrac]

I had nice color with mine. Tried feeding them.. I used selcon as well to soak the food. Fed my big polyps mysis and cyclopeez.

this is what they looked like when I got them.


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[Dapg8gt]

^^^ good growth. How long between pics? Here's some of mine.
About 3 months ago

Now top left

Top centerBought gorilla nipples at same time wit 10 polyps, under is a single captain America so we will see how fast they go and when the color starts to really pop. It's a few days in my system.

My favorite laffy taffy

 

[A. Grandis]

interesting, i would think light spectrum would play more on color than food... but i would say food for growth

In truth, as I've posted, the combo of many factors will determinate the probabilities of color changes (including the so called "morphs") in basically all zoanthids. Color changes could be the point when someone wants to reach a desired level, or to improve the coloration of zoas, so...

Spectrum plays with color and growth.
PAR plays with color and growth.
Types of light source plays with color and growth.
Target feeding IME plays with color and growth.

Light, of course, is also one of the major physical aspects to drive color in zoanthids (and corals), as we all know for long time.
But not less important is the presence of some elements and even water flow in the tank for the health of the polyps, to say the least.

My choice for the feeding topic is simply because of the lack of solid information and studies about it, talking about zoa color, for example. I also believe that growth and reproduction of zoas are directly related to solid particle foods in the wild. Many people still ignore the importance of good quality target feeding in closed systems.

Not to mention that we often hear they simply think that fish poop will supply the needs of their zoas, when talking about nutrition. I myself never had the pleasure to see any of my zoas even grabbing fish poop. I actually tried to feed the fish poop but they rejected (and my fishes are well fed with quality food, I wonder why their poop doesn't taste good)!!!

I can agree that zoanthids in general are able to do some nutrient absorption from the water and those nutrients could come from fish waste, but that is not more efficient than a good nutritious target feeding. Fish waste was digested and the fishes got the best of if in many cases.

Many people also think their zoas need only light, because they don't feed and their zoas look and grow great. Once more, many of those never tried to take time and target feed their polyps with quality food long enough to see the difference that makes in the long run (6 months or more).

Please keep 'em coming...
Remember that this thread can be HUGE, with a lot of good info about all levels of related topics to zoa color.

Target feeding is just my choice.

Forgive me if I went too deep in the feeding topic.
Hope hear from others so I can learn more...

Good thread!
:thumbsup:

Grandis.

 

[A. Grandis]

I have great colors on mine and target feed oyster feast twice a month and phyto to the tank weekly sometimes coral frenzy.what are you guys feeding with? Sometimes I'll give some of the juice from mysis/brine but mostly filter it out. Mine seem to do the same under intense light and average light. But my tank is pretty bright in all areas.

I've tried many natural and artificial foods in the past years:

Mysis, natural plankton, algae, etc..
Many different fish foods (frozen, pellets and flakes).
Oyster Feast (Reef Nutrition)
Phyto Feast (Reef Nutrition)
Roti Feast (Reef Nutrition)
Tigger Pods (Reef Nutrition)
Coralife Invert Food - not so good!
Microvore (Brightwell Aquatics) - Polyps love it.
Reef Snow (Brightwell Aquatics)
Marine Spectrum fish pellets (New Life International)
Acan and zoa food (Fauna Manrin) - Very good!!!
LPS grow color pellets (Fauna Marin) - Very good!!!!
Coral Frenzy - great response and very good growth IME.
Reef-Roids (Polyp Lab) - Started today * great response* too early to say, but many other people love it!!

That's all I can remember for now...

I also add Vitamin C (Brightwell Aquatics)
Coral amino (Brightwell Aquatics)
ReefPlus (SeaChem)

Somebody's Reef Roids time lapse video (not zoas, but interesting!!)
I've tried today for the first time and the polyps loved it!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzZTGDfzarI

LPS growth color food
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luhTTxE-8W8

...this one too...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyw6C1CWfrg&feature=fvwrel

...and one more:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Suyo7E839dM&feature=autoplay&list=ULhYmqBXTd2pQ&playnext=1

Grandis.

 

[Dapg8gt]

I've tried many natural and artificial foods in the past years:

Mysis, natural plankton, algae, etc..
Many different fish foods (frozen, pellets and flakes).
Oyster Feast (Reef Nutrition)
Phyto Feast (Reef Nutrition)
Roti Feast (Reef Nutrition)
Tigger Pods (Reef Nutrition)
Coralife Invert Food - not so good!
Microvore (Brightwell Aquatics) - Polyps love it.
Reef Snow (Brightwell Aquatics)
Marine Spectrum fish pellets (New Life International)
Acan and zoa food (Tropic Manrin) - Very good!!!
LPS grow color pellets (Tropic Marin) - Very good!!!!
Coral Frenzy - great response and very good growth IME.
Reef-Roids (Polyp Lab) - Started today * great response* too early to say, but many other people love it!!

That's all I can remember for now...

I also add Vitamin C (Brightwell Aquatics)
Coral amino (Brightwell Aquatics)
ReefPlus (SeaChem)

Somebody's Reef Roids time lapse video (not zoas, but interesting!!)
I've tried today for the first time and the polyps loved it!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzZTGDfzarI

LPS growth color food
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luhTTxE-8W8

...this one too...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyw6C1CWfrg&feature=fvwrel

...and one more:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Suyo7E839dM&feature=autoplay&list=ULhYmqBXTd2pQ&playnext=1

Grandis.

Didn't watch the vids yet but when you feed the solid type foods pellets etc.. Do they close up on it and ingest it? My large neuclears will but the small buttons don't really close up on the solids. I've tried mysis,brine,squid, pretty much all things I feed to other fish,anemones etc... Gonna watch the vids now. Thanks.

 

[Dapg8gt]

Wow nice vids thanks for the post. Gonna have to get some of those LPS pellets and try it out. BTW that highlighter Acan in the second to last vid is awesome.. Nice links.

 

[A. Grandis]

Didn't watch the vids yet but when you feed the solid type foods pellets etc.. Do they close up on it and ingest it? My large neuclears will but the small buttons don't really close up on the solids. I've tried mysis,brine,squid, pretty much all things I feed to other fish,anemones etc... Gonna watch the vids now. Thanks.

Mysis, brine and squid are way too big for them...
I can feed the small soft pellets and zoa/acan (Fauna Marin) food to the small polyps of Zoanthus spp. Also the Microvore (Brightwell Aquatics) is good for the Zoanthus spp. Coral Frenzy will drive them crazy!! They love it. Reef Roids too.
Size of food needs to be appropriate to the size of mouth.
They close around the food and eat them all, yes!
After 10 - 15 min. turn on pumps again and they stay closed ingesting the particles. They open after say 20 min. or so.

Target feeding once a week is enough.

There should be no reaction to the target feeding. They actually grab the food when you offer from the top when all the circulation pumps are off. Let the food drop slowly on them and they will close, grabbing the food particles and ingest them very slow.

Grandis.

 

[A. Grandis]

Wow nice vids thanks for the post. Gonna have to get some of those LPS pellets and try it out. BTW that highlighter Acan in the second to last vid is awesome.. Nice links.

I like them very much as well.
Enjoy...

Grandis.

 

[tyler91913]

Thanks for all the responses guys. It's a little bit off-topic, but since it's been broached already I'll ask a question about feeding that's been on my mind: why do people feed their z/p's after dark? My zoas tend to close up when the lights go out. Doesn't it make more sense to feed them with the lights on, so they can grab the food with their skirts and bring it up to their oral discs?

 

[A. Grandis]

Most zoanthids open at night.
If you want to feed them during the day (lights on) just do it, but make sure the fishes will leave them alone and won't try to still the food from them.
No problem, you can fed them any time, as long as they are open.

Grandis.

 

[91Atrac]

Well actually it's 2 different ppls watermelons but both had the same first result in my hands. Funny thing to me was one had t5ho lighting and the other had a pico with DIY Cree LEDs.

But neither spot fed or added supplements. One uses IO salt and the other uses Seachem Reef salt. I hear alot of ppl near me saying that switching to tropic marine salt or crystals had made a huge impact on there corals color and growth. So IMO the result of the color and growth has to do with what your ambition and goals are for the size, color and growth of them and how fast you want them to fill up all that empty tank


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[91Atrac]

Oh and it was between 3-5 months of growth. About


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[tyler91913]

Most zoanthids open at night.
If you want to feed them during the day (lights on) just do it, but make sure the fishes will leave them alone and won't try to still the food from them.
No problem, you can fed them any time, as long as they are open.

Grandis.

When you say "night", do you mean total darkness? Or just under moonlights/actinics? Because when the tank lights are all off, and the only light is ambient light (from the TV or the hallway or whatever), all my z/p's are closed. This is making me wonder if my zoas would love me more if I left my blues on a low setting all night. Has anyone experimented with this?

And my fish would take food any time of day or night. If I try to feed corals after dark, the fish'll wake up and come for it. But there's no way they can get all the food in there for the z/p's, since it is too fine a grade and broadcast through the whole water column. FWIW, I feed my corals alternately with cyclopeeze, rod's food, reef chili. Some of my paly's will take mysis if it comes their way, but not the zoas.

 

[KafudaFish]

Believe it or not I use my zoas' coloration as an indicator it is time to conduct a water change.

The first two weeks after one they are a different color, a very bright blue and purple. Around week 3 the purple starts to brown out and the blue starts to fade. By week 4 it is more pronounced.

The cycle begins again about 2-3 days after the WC.

 

[A. Grandis]

When you say "night", do you mean total darkness? Or just under moonlights/actinics? Because when the tank lights are all off, and the only light is ambient light (from the TV or the hallway or whatever), all my z/p's are closed. This is making me wonder if my zoas would love me more if I left my blues on a low setting all night. Has anyone experimented with this?

And my fish would take food any time of day or night. If I try to feed corals after dark, the fish'll wake up and come for it. But there's no way they can get all the food in there for the z/p's, since it is too fine a grade and broadcast through the whole water column. FWIW, I feed my corals alternately with cyclopeeze, rod's food, reef chili. Some of my paly's will take mysis if it comes their way, but not the zoas.

I'm talking about main lights off. All the organisms in the tank know that when main light goes off it's "night time". No blues, no actinics, no whites.
Please do not leave the blues on a low setting all night hoping the polyps will "love you more"!! They need the darkness to rest. The whole system needs it.

A little ambient light is fine, no problem. They still know it's "night mode". Try to turn off all lights around the tank by 10:00 pm or so.
They have their biological clock and all need to rest from the lights.
It's fine to keep a schedule for moon light (cycle) and I would say very nice for them to have the moon light cycle on the schedule.

The less ambient light you have around the tank, the better for them with or without a moon cycle bulb.

I have no idea why some zoas close at night and some don't.
In my tank almost all of the zoanthids are VERY open at night.
In nature, as far as I know and seen they are all open too.
Go figure...

I've never tried Rod's food nor Reef Chilly yet. They are on my list.
Are you referring to the Original Rod's food or the Coral Rod's food?

Grandis.