Zoanthids Not happy....Something bothering them?

[240gallons]

Hello all!

I am having an issue with all zoanthids in my frag system. Because this problem is systemic, I can only assume it is some type of pest or bacterial infection.

Unfortunately, I did not think to take pics of the zoanthids until AFTER I dipped them but all is not lost. I have pics of an acan that might be helpfull...

Description of issue....

1. On first look it appears like detritus or some other "brown stuff" was somehow sticking to the mat and stems of my zoanthids. (not the face of the polyp)
2. This is a brown spongy substance that resembles detritus.
3. This does not appear to be affecting any other corals but the zoanthids are all partially closed up.
4. If I dip and rinse the zoanthids in Lugols or Furan 2, the substance falls to the bottom of the bucket and appears like detritus. It is NOT stringy thank god ;-) dinos:idea:
5. I also noticed that the zoanthids appear to be peeling....If I hit them aggressively with a turkey baster I see what appears to be a very thin layer of polyp skin flaking off.



There is no sand bed in this tank and the bottom is pretty clean. There are a few piles of crap here and there but not bad at all.

I took a pic of an acan that I noticed had some of this substance on it. If you look close there appears to be holes in the substance like something may be living in it.

What could this be??

 

[A. Grandis]

Both pictures probably came from the wild like that. At least it looks like...
Between the Acanthastrea's polyps is a long sponge, and on the zoas we've got probably algae and some other small things (hard to see).

Those zoanthids are partially irritated.
They are actually Palythoa and they are hardy. If those things, whatever it really is, gets among Zoanthus' polyps they will irritate them more, because Zoanthus spp. are more sensitive. I would dip to get rid of the stuff.

The sponge you can remove with a tweezers.
You could give a hydrogen peroxide dip for the algae and other small things on the zoas.

15% hydrogen peroxide (the regular one from pharmacy, 3%) to 85% tank water for a minute or 2.
Remove them and dip again in a bowl with clean tank water before returning them to the system.
One dip should do it.
Both cases not big deals!!

I didn't see the peeling off. I would think that the peeling would happen more with Zoanthus spp., not that type of Palythoa in the picture. I'm sure you didn't put a picture with the peeling.
That's normal, coming from the wild. Not to worry. It comes off little by little and doesn't harm the polyps. It's ugly, I know, but you need to be careful when removing it. Use tweezers, but don't pull too hard. If it doesn't come off easily, let it be like that for a while.
It won't happen again in the tank, only on wild zoas.

Please clean the crap from the bottom while doing partial water changes during maintenance.

:thumbsup:

Grandis.

 

[240gallons]

Thanks for the reply Grandis. Ive had the Acan in the system for several months and has been perfect since day 1. I do have this in an area of lower flow which allowed the material to settle between the heads of the coral. What's interesting is that if zoom in on the acan pic up you can see where something has burrowed in the material.

Here are some pics from tonight's. Sorry for the poor quality these were taken with my cell. All of the corals you see here were dipped 3 days ago in furan 2 for 15 min / 1pack per gallon and Iodine 40 drops per gallon for the last 5 minutes. The zoanthids respond nicely after the dip but Im back to square 1 in 3-4 days.

Notice the the bottom of the tank is clear of detritus for the most part...whatever this is like to be on something living...


I think I am pretty agressive with the dips now. The only thing I can think to do is treat the entire tank:facepalm: I m thinking a systemic treatment of furan will fix the bacterial problem but not sure what effect it will have on my beneficial bacteria... Will I have massive die off and kill off all living bacteria?

 

[240gallons]

What is the maximum time a zoanthid can survive a Furan2 saltwater dip? And then a lugols dip?

Im thinking of trying a massive dip starting with Bayer then to Furan ending with Iodine and possibly fresh water. I cant continue to dip these 3-4 times a week for the rest of my life..LOL

 

[floridascape]

ever thought of not dipping them anymore and just leaving them be for awhile and see what they do?

 

[240gallons]

ever thought of not dipping them anymore and just leaving them be for awhile and see what they do?

Yes Its not pretty. If not dipped, the zoanthids close and melt away.

 

[A. Grandis]

Nope, I would say that treating the whole system isn't the way to go!

Furan2 isn't supposed to kill beneficial bacteria, as the product states, but it is an antibiotic and it does kill bacteria, so I do believe that filters/rocks will be lightly affected.

As I've said before, the thing between the Acanthastrea's polyps is a sponge and it's ugly to me. Yes, had detritus attached to it. I would remove it with tweezers.

The problem with the zoas need to be addressed with dips.

I do not recommend to use more than one medicine to treat bacterial infections on zoanthids and/or corals. You need to choose one and go for it.

The dosage of the chosen medicine needs to be increased carefully after the first dip.
Every situation is different and every polyp could react positively or not with the higher dosages. It's the common sense that help us to increase slowly, if needed, and watch the results.

I recommend one dip per day max.

I wouldn't think twice to change the sources and get some "better quality" zoas.
Not worthy the time to deal with so many dippings in order to save some money.
Specially because it's not the first time...

Grandis.

 

[240gallons]

UPDATE: 18 hours post dip the zoanthids look 85% better. No suprise here as I have dipped them many times before. (Thanks Grandis and Organism)

This time I used a combination of 40 drops Lugols Iodine per gallon for 15 min then followed up with rodi for 5 min. Despite the stress of a FW dip these corals look better.

I dipped every zoanthid in this system, roughly 150 frags and removed 95% of all detritus. Based on past experiences with these corals I expect to be back to square 1 in 3-4 days.

There is 50 lbs of LR in the sump. After several dips I have to believe that there is systemic bacteria that keeps infecting my corals.

Plan: Im going to observe for a couple of days. If the corals start closing up again I will turn the system into a hospital tank and treat the entire thing with furan 2 for a few days.

I will remove all inverts and see what happens.....

 

[A. Grandis]

You're very welcome!
Please keep us posted!

Grandis.

 

[240gallons]

Things are looking much better. The fw dip was stressful but corals bounced back after 2 days and continue to look great. I guess when iodine and furan don't seem to be working a little bit of fresh water might do the trick? In this pics the logjts were only on for 15 min