Zoanthids not opening, but only one type

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For some reason, one type of zoanthid in my frag tanks is going south. They started by not opening and now they are getting this green looking coating on them.

All other zoanthids in this frag tank are doing great. I've even disturbed them to see what they look like closed up and all is well.

I've checked this tank for pests during the day and at night with a flashlight. I've also dipped these frags to see if it helped.

Nothing has worked. Here are some pictures. Anyone have any ideas what it is and how to fix it?

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What type of dips have you done? Have you moved them around to see if the water flow could be it?
 
I've done a revive dip and a Brightwell MediCoral Dip.

I have them placed in several locations in the frag tank and none are doing good. All other zoanthids are doing good though.
 
Probably water chemistry.

We need more info about what you're dosing, placing in the sump, reactors, water changes, temp, water params, etc.
What type of substrate is that?
Can be one thing or so many things together...

I don't think you need to dip them. They look ok, not sick. They are not comfortable in the water.
The algae is taking advantage of the situation. You have a little bit of excess nutrients and should look for the solution about the algae problem. Possibly the substrate (?).
If you want to eliminate the algae at once you could do a hydroxide dip, but it won't solve your nutrient problem.

Perhaps the algae is irritating the colony.

Grandis.
 
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I'll test everything today just to get the most accurate numbers. The system is about 140 gallons and and I do a 40% water change every two week using reef crystals salt.

Last check (three weeks ago or so) the caclium/mag/alk were all acceptable. Nitrates were 30, nitrites/ammonia 0, and I didn't test for Phosphates.

Substrate is black tahitian moon sand made by Caribsea.

Tank is 12" deep glass. High flow on the right and and moderate flow on the left. It has an ASM G2 skimmer and a TLF 150 reactor running biobellets. JBJ ATO with a 20 gallon reservoir. TDS on the RO water is 2.
 
I don't understand why you change 40% of the water every 2 weeks.
Nitrate was 30ppm?
Make sure the test kit is ok and not expired.

I didn't' try that substrate yet, but I've heard that has metals. You must like the look of it. The substrate has metals and IMO shouldn't be part of any salt water tank! If you want to test that please use a magnetic you will have the black sand attaching to it.

Another observation I would like to make is that if you need to do so many water changes and have a biopellets reactor I would assume is because of the nitrates. I believe it's not working, right? Could that be the reason for the zoas to close? Could be part of it, but hard to know exactly.

Please tell us more about the problems you've had in the past and why you change so much water and so often. Why did you add the biopellets reactor and when?
Did you have the zoas closed before you added the biopellet reactor?

I would say you skimmer is ok and it's probably doing some good work, but you really can't rely 100% on any skimmer to do "it's job on removing the excess bacteria with the nitrates".

I would stop the biopellets reactor today and see if the zoas open after next water change.
I would change only 10% at a time. You could keep the 2 weeks schedule.
That could be it!

And if you are willing to change the substrate please remove it by siphoning while do the water changes. You can replace it slowly by aragonite. I like the sugar size oolitic by Caribe Sea.

The zoas could be irritated by the sand?!?!

Lights? Photoperiod?
Sudden changes recently?

Grandis.
 
I don't understand why you change 40% of the water every 2 weeks.
Nitrate was 30ppm?
Make sure the test kit is ok and not expired.

I didn't' try that substrate yet, but I've heard that has metals. You must like the look of it. The substrate has metals and IMO shouldn't be part of any salt water tank! If you want to test that please use a magnetic you will have the black sand attaching to it.

Another observation I would like to make is that if you need to do so many water changes and have a biopellets reactor I would assume is because of the nitrates. I believe it's not working, right? Could that be the reason for the zoas to close? Could be part of it, but hard to know exactly.

Please tell us more about the problems you've had in the past and why you change so much water and so often. Why did you add the biopellets reactor and when?
Did you have the zoas closed before you added the biopellet reactor?

I would say you skimmer is ok and it's probably doing some good work, but you really can't rely 100% on any skimmer to do "it's job on removing the excess bacteria with the nitrates".

I would stop the biopellets reactor today and see if the zoas open after next water change.
I would change only 10% at a time. You could keep the 2 weeks schedule.
That could be it!

And if you are willing to change the substrate please remove it by siphoning while do the water changes. You can replace it slowly by aragonite. I like the sugar size oolitic by Caribe Sea.

The zoas could be irritated by the sand?!?!

Lights? Photoperiod?
Sudden changes recently?

Grandis.

I do a 40% water change every two weeks because over the past 10 years that's what has brought me the best results. I'm not saying that everyone should do it but my coral's colors and growth do best when I personally keep things on that schedule. I know it's not the "norm" but like everything else in this hobby, what works for one person doesn't always work for everyone.

The test kit is not expired and it's a Salifert. Again I'll be testing tonight and post the results.

I've been using this substrate for almost 2 years now with no problems. I've kept anemones, clams, shrimp, and many other inverts with no problems. I can keep and grow SPS, LPS, and softies (including zoanthids) as well when using this substrate. To me the black sand makes the corals stand out more. As far as it containing metals I've never heard that. I've done the magnet test on it, and just did it again to be safe, and it does not stick. It is reef safe but does not provide the buffering capabilities that aragonite type sands do.

I recently switched from two smaller frag tanks to the current one (about 2 months ago). The biopellets reactor was taken offline during the move and put back online about one month ago. It can take 4 to 8 weeks before the biopellets take effect so hopefully soon I can slow down on the water changes. Also, when I say 40% I mean 40% of the frag tank, I should have mentioned I'm not including the sump volume in that. So in reality it's more like 25%.

These zoanthids were not put in this tank until maybe two weeks ago. Like I said though all other zoanthids are doing great. As a matter of fact all my corals in this system are doing great including LSP, SPS, and softies. These are the only problem coral at the moment. I'll include some photos of some other corals that are currently in this system and were taken since this one type of zoanthid has closed up.

I dont' plan to remove the sand only because I've been using it for so long in so many different system with no problems. I also put one frag of this type of zoanthid in my display tank last night. That tank doesn't have this substrate so if they open up then maybe I'll revisit that. It's also not using biopellets right now.

The lights are 2 ATI Sunpower 6 bulbs fixtures. They're 18" off the water with no acrylic shields. Two bulbs comes on at 4:30PM and the other 4 at 5:00PM. They shut down to two bulbs at 11:30PM and go completely out at midnight. Bulbs mix is 4 ATI Blue Plus, 1 ATI Aquablue special, and 1 Coral Plus per fixture.
 
Here are some photos of a few corals that were taken in this frag tank. These photos were taken since the zoanthids in question have been closing and are not showing any of the same symptoms, all look very healthy.

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Yep, understood your point on the 40% water changes.
It's totally unnecessary, but I respect your choice, it's your tank...
By what I understood, the 40% water changes are in part to help keep nitrates down.
Well it's not working for 10 years, I guess. ;)
I guess we need to wait 4 to 8 weeks (for the biopellets) to see what happens to the zoas.
Maybe they will open by then.

Do you have the same algae found on the zoas around other rocks and/or over the black substrate?

Like I've said in my first post, I don't think they are sick nor they have bacterial infection. They don't need dips for any diseases and so.

The zoas are in the tank only for 2 weeks, so give them a time...

My US$.02 to the thread.
Good luck.

Grandis.
 
The water changes work for me as evident by the rest of the corals/fish/inverts in the systems I do this to. Again, they work for me..doesn't mean anyone else has to do them. I don't do them JUST for nitrates, I do them to prevent me from having to dose all the time, to help keep nitrates down, and to replenish trace elements. If the rest of my critters were hurting then I'd consider that maybe the water changes are a bad idea but everything else is doing fine...which is why I made this post in the first place..but I'll get to that in a second. Last thing on the water changes for this post, I don't see how they can hurt anything...could I be doing them more than needed sure but hurt something buy doing this...I don't see how.

The biopellets are not hurting the zoas, if they were the cause then it would be hurting the other ones, at least that's how I see it.

I don't have any other algae on or near any other rocks/substrate. It's ONLY this one type of zonathid and it doesn't matter if they're on the rock they came in on or a frag plug, they're all doing the same thing no matter where I put them in the tank.

The point of this thread was to try and figure out why one type of zoanthid would close up like this when over 20 different types are not showing similar behavior. It's only one type of zoanthid that has an issue and it doesn't make sense to me.
 
When ever one of my colonies close for more than a few days, ill do a furan2 dip for 20 mins. I havent lost any zoas since ive started doing this. I had some that looked like the
3rd picture and they fully recovered.
 
I also had some that I didnt dip that looked like the 3rd pic, and they melted away. The second pic looks like they will start melting on the upper left part of the rock.
 
The new zoas are not used to your system.
Give them some time...

Grandis.

Not trying to be argumentative but that's not it. There are other zoanthids that came in the same day as these and they're fine. I've never had zoanthids that needed more than a day to open up, these are going on a week.
 
I also had some that I didnt dip that looked like the 3rd pic, and they melted away. The second pic looks like they will start melting on the upper left part of the rock.

I tried a Furan2 dip and it didn't do anything. Did one dip work or did you need to do multiples. I've only used Furan2 for Zoapox.
 
Not trying to be argumentative but that's not it. There are other zoanthids that came in the same day as these and they're fine. I've never had zoanthids that needed more than a day to open up, these are going on a week.

No problem, I think I shouldn't go off topic like I did.
I'm sorry. I was just trying to help somehow.

Well, now you have a zoa that needs more than a day to open.
There will be aways a first time for everything.
I just think you should take care of the algae problem, but I wouldn't recommend to brush it off.
Main thing is that they look ok to me and that's my best to you.

Once more it could be chemistry.

Try to compare the lights they were under before with the ones you've got.

Grandis.
 
... and if you see any film on them, then I would do a Lugol's dip.
Bacteria or fungus could take advantage of the weak colony.

Grandis.
 
The ones that looked really bad I did a furan2 dip for 20 mins, every day for 4 days in a row, they should start coming around after that, packet per quart of water. Kinda wish i had pictures of before and after.
 
Normally they don't take weeks to melt way after they close.
It takes place really fast, most of the time.
That's why I don't believe they have do be dipped and I don't think they will melt.
I had zoas for months looking like that after a period of adaptation they came back...

The adaptation in part is because of the water params (chemistry) and possibly light.

Like I've said before, it looks like the problem is adaptation for his tank and if there is no evidences of infection, after he dipped already once, we should wait and see.

I like this type of threads.

Good luck!!

Grandis.
 
I do agree with grandis about the water change frequency and volume. Zoanthids seem to do better with less clear water. Ive got over 80 Z/P colonies in my tank and I do a 20 gallon water change per month, and I have incredible growth rate.
 
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