zoas extending out

[Redseadragon12]

So I woke up this morning to check the tank and all of my zoanthids are hyperextended. They were not like this yesterday and the lighting has not been changed (165W LED fixture). I added a protein skimmer that is pulling a lot of skimmate out of the small tank its a tunze 9002 in a 16 gallon nano. Anyone know if overly clean water can cause zoas to hyperextend? or anything other than lighting that would cause this?

 

[Redseadragon12]

Also my parameters are all good except pH is Low 7.8 and ALK 9.5. I though about dripping kalk but that would be difficult on this tiny tank.

 

[A. Grandis]

Alk at 9.5 is fine, but the pH is low, if during the day. Weird!
Check Mg and Ca too. Could be that one of the 2 tests were expired or if pH monitor is in use it needs cleaning/calibration. Check again and add buffer if needed.

Pics of the polyps please and more info about the system.

Grandis.

 

[Redseadragon12]

Thanks, Ill work on getting some pics up. I havent checked magnesium but calcium is 450. I think the pH stays low because I live in an interior apt unit where there is poor ventilation.

 

[A. Grandis]

You need to pump some fresh air into the unit then...

Grandis.

 

[Redseadragon12]

I have a skimmer hooked up but its the tunze 9002 and I just dont have the desire to run hoses all over the condo to get to the hall way which I doubt the air there is that fresh anyways.

I tried something experimental that may or may not work. I put some small chips of half cured agrocrete in the tank to boost the pH. this might potentially work well assuming there are no toxins in the concrete to begin with.

 

[Redseadragon12]

failure... It raised the alkalinity and left the pH at 7.6..... Guess the only option is trying to set something up to drip kalkwasser however, I doubt that will do anything because the amount of evaporation on the 16 gallon is like a few cups a day it wouldnt allow for significant amount of kalk supernatant to be added.

 

[A. Grandis]

I have a skimmer hooked up but its the tunze 9002 and I just dont have the desire to run hoses all over the condo to get to the hall way which I doubt the air there is that fresh anyways.

I tried something experimental that may or may not work. I put some small chips of half cured agrocrete in the tank to boost the pH. this might potentially work well assuming there are no toxins in the concrete to begin with.

Well, the skimmer is a Tunze. They are good skimmers.

I'm kinda confuse here...
Hoses to the hallway? I'm just talking about opening the windows or something. LOL!!

Half cured "aragocrate" will boost the pH due to the presence of the non-cured concrete in the water, as we know.
The aragonite in the mix won't play that much.

There is no toxins per say in the concrete that would affect the system, but if there is an excess of uncured concrete that would bring pH high enough that would act like a toxin to the organisms due to the caustic properties of it, yes. That will depend on the amount of caustic substances that the rocks will release. That will also depend on what type of concrete used too.

I would say that pH higher than 8.4 during the day (lights on) is not a good idea.
pH of concrete rocks ("aragocrate") could reach 10+ on the starting point.

Depending on the type of cement used the curing process will take up to 60 days!!!
Just keep an eye on that stuff.

I would suggest to check the pH monitor and/or probe to make sure your numbers are accurate first.
Make sure the alkalinity test is accurate too!

Best and safest way to maintain alkalinity in the long run is with the use of buffers. Water changes will help you to correct the numbers and then you maintain with buffers.

Grandis.

 

[A. Grandis]

failure... It raised the alkalinity and left the pH at 7.6..... Guess the only option is trying to set something up to drip kalkwasser however, I doubt that will do anything because the amount of evaporation on the 16 gallon is like a few cups a day it wouldnt allow for significant amount of kalk supernatant to be added.

Well, kalk is a good way to control CO2, BUT it will bring calcium too high after a while. Also it should't be used to control alkalinity. Buffers are to control alkalinity.

Please listen to me... check your pH probe and/or monitor.
Some times a gentle cleaning with a soft brush will remove detritus/bacteria that is leading the probe to miss read the pH.
Also calibrate the probe...
If you're testing pH with a test kit it could be expired.

You just can't have alkalinity higher and pH stay the same...

Grandis.

 

[ruffyruff]

Well, kalk is a good way to control CO2, BUT it will bring calcium too high after a while. Also it should't be used to control alkalinity. Buffers are to control alkalinity.

Please listen to me... check your pH probe and/or monitor.
Some times a gentle cleaning with a soft brush will remove detritus/bacteria that is leading the probe to miss read the pH.
Also calibrate the probe...
If you're testing pH with a test kit it could be expired.

You just can't have alkalinity higher and pH stay the same...

Grandis.

Grandis, my ph is always in the ranges of 7.6-7.8 and add 0.2 to it when i m dosing my baked baking soda to raise dkh from using TMPR. I have no problem with growth on my corals, everything does not look stressed in any ways. I only dose baked baking soda at my weekly 10% water changes. Could you explain to me what buffers do? and what kind of buffer should i get to increase my PH (if I really need to) and dkh to get better growth?

 

[A. Grandis]

Well, buffers in the saltwater aquarium are simply to keep alkalinity (and consequently pH) at the levels found in natural sea water. pH should be between 8.0 - 8.2 during the day if alkalinity is 9.0 or more. That's what's normally found in many systems. At night pH could drop to 7.8, but would be good to keep it at 8.0.

So buffers are to maintain the stability, avoiding the fluctuations.

The importance of alkalinity and pH is to make sure that the parameters found in nature aren't off in our artificial systems.

When keeping zoanthids many of us found that the more stable the environment the better they do, in regards to water quality.

I use BRS buffer for my system and it works great.
I do add kalkwasser during the night but it's a very little amount just to keep coralline going once I don't have any hard corals.

Baking soda is a buffer that can be used.

If I dose kalkwasser with ATO the calcium accumulates and the balance of the system will be off.

Weekly water changes with a good salt mix or natural water will help maintaining ionic balance as well.

In a room without ventilation the problem is the CO2 in the system. You need to have air coming in the room where the aquarium is. Main thing to keep the tank without such problems. The tank just "can't breathe" that way!!

The O2, CO2 balance is important too!!

Good luck!

Grandis.

 

[ruffyruff]

While using Tropic Marin Pro Reef (TMPR) without a calcium reactor, which method would you recommend (of course i m lazy, but i m pretty religious with my water changes)...

1. Dose 2 part to raise DKH and maintain 400+ calcium

2. Change to a different salt like
2a. Red Sea Coral Pro Salt
2b. Reef Crystal
2c. Any other salt that has levels relatively good?

 

[A. Grandis]

It doesn't work like that!! LOL!
There is no formula or a particular advice through the web to follow.
That would be too easy...
You need to know how much calcium and alkalinity you need to add in order to decide.
every tank s different and it changes a bit through the corse of the year too.
Testing them and analyzing is the only way.
I only used Red Sea salt and Instant Ocean to this date, so I can't talk about another salt mix.

I like Instant Ocean and Red Sea Pro.

I would do the tests and decide what you would like to do.
You need to study and search for each method.
I would have to write a book here.

The BRS site kinda gives you a good understanding about the dosages and types of chemicals, and they have tools to help. That's my best tip for you.

Grandis.

 

[Redseadragon12]

Wow thanks for the write up Grandis! sorry I was busy the last few days.

I use a pH pen to check alkalinity instead of a probe its very quick and easy with little maintenance and I have a standardized solution to check its accuracy. I am consistently reading a pH of 7.5! even with the added half cured agrocrete "which measured a pH of 9.8 in the curing tank. Im starting to realize this is a CO2 accumulation issue in the condo and it doesnt seem to matter how much buffer(or actually straight hydroxide) I add, I will just end up with low pH and spiked alkalinity because the CO2 equilibrium is to high...

After reading up I've found all the issues that are causing this. I live in a highrise small condo unit older warehouse style building and the dryer has no ventilation and neither does the stove. These two pump out enormous amounts of CO2 so I've hit a real solid roadblock on the reef tank here. I need to find some sort of air purifier I guess since its about to be 100 degrees/humid outside, I wont be able to open the windows to circulate air much.

My main concern now is that my fish are slightly listless and when I run a hose outside from a power head, they perk up so I know they are being deprived of oxygen. I'm also thinking my tank may have alerted me to an obvious cause of drowsiness.

 

[A. Grandis]

Wow. Yep, you need to solve the CO2 problem.
I would still get another way to confirm that 7.5 pH reading, just to make sure...
It's way too low.

Grandis.

 

[Redseadragon12]

Thanks I will be looking into ventilation systems or something. The pH is correct I also have tested with a salifert kit.

 

[Adam13]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2097651&highlight=co2+scrubber