zooanthids not growing at all

[sde1500]

hmmm this thread became way off topic for the op.....

That is what happens when someone seems to be pushing an agenda.
Though it is possible that it is light related, so not entirely off topic.

I've read a few threads where it just takes a while to get the tanks going. I have some zoas growing very nicely right next to other zoas that haven't grown in a while. Could be any number of reasons.

 

[blasterman789]

A Grandis is a poster child for what's wrong with these forums and the general lack of science education in general, and I urge those sick of his comments to not let up on the criticism. Every reef problem along with incontinence and hemorrhoids he blames on LEDs, and if he were making his comments in the general forums he'd be bashed to pieces.

My first reef tank (30 years ago) was a cheap, 28gal plexiglass hex, and I could never get anything to grow in it. So, I should log onto reef forums and claim 'you can't grow coral in tanks with more than 4 sides'. That actually makes more logical sense than A Grandis does and his anti LED flat earth speak.

In the past 5 years I've grown out multiple 15-20gal tanks with zoa gardens so effing dense you coulnd't see rockwork, and all were under custom LED fixtures bright enough to scald SPS. I'm giving away frags of purple hornets, king midas and gobstoppers because they are over growing my tanks, and I have to listen to this guy say you need T5's.

The formula for excellent zoa / paly growth in my experience is moderate nitrate (5-10ppm) and higher pH if you are running smaller tanks to compensate for C02 saturation (carbonic acid is bad for zoas, and kalk can fix this) along with elevated magnesium (not sure why, but it seems to help likely because it reduces competing bryopsis). Since my tanks all run low nutrient on their own because I keep low bioloads I now add potassium nitrate to keep nitrate at 5-10ppm, and zoa growth responds accordingly. Some larger palys (purple deaths / Sunny -Ds) will devour mysis or brine shrimp if dropped on them, and this drastically helps growth. Smalles zoas are filter feeders though.

Liquid suppliments like oyster of zoo fest don't have enough protein mass in them when used in larger tanks. I use 4 caps in one of my 12gallons just to get a feeding response.

 

[garygonzales]

+1 on this..........thanks blasterman...im with you all the way on this one...lol....

 

[stan80]

Ok my parameters are ph 8 -8.2. Calcium 415..alk 8.8 - 9..nitrates always untraceable. Phospates 0 - 0.5 . Maybe I did get too much into the led company telling me there lights are #1 and they even did win led lighting of the year and there par/pur charts show good high numbers.. I do have a couples t2 bulbs ( those pencil size bulbs ) with the 2 led strips and there charts show those t2 to have goood par too...plus the bulbs are only 5 inches above the water surface and my leather coral is growing fast. Also the zoanthids arent directly in front of the powerheads or nothing plus I have some other frags in other places in the tank and they not growimg either..I said 8 months but I looked and it's 7 months ive had them..I do have some mushrooms also and they are not spreading but are growing larger...I have only been into saltwater for a yr now and the zoanthids was the first corals I got cause all I read was they would grow almost no mater what .

 

[sde1500]

They like a little nitrate in the water. Undetectable is too low for them usually.

 

[garygonzales]

yep...... plus some zoas grow quicker then others..others take forever to grow..

 

[Kyle918]

A Grandis is a poster child for what's wrong with these forums and the general lack of science education in general, and I urge those sick of his comments to not let up on the criticism. Every reef problem along with incontinence and hemorrhoids he blames on LEDs, and if he were making his comments in the general forums he'd be bashed to pieces.

My first reef tank (30 years ago) was a cheap, 28gal plexiglass hex, and I could never get anything to grow in it. So, I should log onto reef forums and claim 'you can't grow coral in tanks with more than 4 sides'. That actually makes more logical sense than A Grandis does and his anti LED flat earth speak.

In the past 5 years I've grown out multiple 15-20gal tanks with zoa gardens so effing dense you coulnd't see rockwork, and all were under custom LED fixtures bright enough to scald SPS. I'm giving away frags of purple hornets, king midas and gobstoppers because they are over growing my tanks, and I have to listen to this guy say you need T5's.

The formula for excellent zoa / paly growth in my experience is moderate nitrate (5-10ppm) and higher pH if you are running smaller tanks to compensate for C02 saturation (carbonic acid is bad for zoas, and kalk can fix this) along with elevated magnesium (not sure why, but it seems to help likely because it reduces competing bryopsis). Since my tanks all run low nutrient on their own because I keep low bioloads I now add potassium nitrate to keep nitrate at 5-10ppm, and zoa growth responds accordingly. Some larger palys (purple deaths / Sunny -Ds) will devour mysis or brine shrimp if dropped on them, and this drastically helps growth. Smalles zoas are filter feeders though.

Liquid suppliments like oyster of zoo fest don't have enough protein mass in them when used in larger tanks. I use 4 caps in one of my 12gallons just to get a feeding response.

Well said.

I too can agree that zoas prefer a little more nitrate. The OP stating that his LPS are fine tells me that the lights are not the problem as zoas can adapt to the higher lighting requirements of LPS. Conditions for SPS, LPS and soft coral are not universal. For the most part, soft corals thrive in higher nitrate and phosphate levels and don't need much more than low light and low flow. If your nitrates and phosphates are untraceable, then that is likely your problem with your zoas. Feed your fish more and over time you may see the zoas pick up in growth.

 

[stan80]

Yea maybe im overkilling it by having macro in my sump plus running a skimmer

 

[A. Grandis]

Still tagging along...
Grandis.

 

[Fish Keeper82]

For those who think LED can't grow coral well.....

I have not had any issues of growing Zoas under LED or any type of coral for that matter. I have a mixed reef with 20 SPS, 6 leathers, 5 lps, 6 zoa colonies and far too many mushrooms to count.
This is 15 month growth of this colony. I have 5 other zoa colonies that all have had great growth similar to this time laps.
I couldn't be happier with my LED setup.
Mine grow fastest at 5 -10ppm nitrate.

 

[garygonzales]

nice growth.....i have leds as well i too have good growth.......

 

[A. Grandis]

Very nice tank. Continue with your LEDs!
I've seen much better tanks than yours under LEDs though. Your corals don't look that good...
One more to help this thread, I hope!

Grandis.

 

[Scottedontknow]

Let me first state that i am on team LED and all my tanks run LEDs. With that being said i think you have a lighting problem along with water issues.

Id get rid of your lighting set up and buy some T5HO's or better LEDs i personally run Kessils and have never looked back they are amazing to say the least. also in my ZOA tank i run my nitrates rather high and my ZOAs are looking amazing and growing very well (started with 1 head frags) i also feed my ZOAs a few times a week. I'm not saying go out and buy kessils just maybe look into better lighting, people i don't think realize what spectrum ZOAs thrive in.

 

[jmcdaniel0]

A Grandis is a poster child for what's wrong with these forums and the general lack of science education in general, and I urge those sick of his comments to not let up on the criticism. Every reef problem along with incontinence and hemorrhoids he blames on LEDs, and if he were making his comments in the general forums he'd be bashed to pieces.

My first reef tank (30 years ago) was a cheap, 28gal plexiglass hex, and I could never get anything to grow in it. So, I should log onto reef forums and claim 'you can't grow coral in tanks with more than 4 sides'. That actually makes more logical sense than A Grandis does and his anti LED flat earth speak.

In the past 5 years I've grown out multiple 15-20gal tanks with zoa gardens so effing dense you coulnd't see rockwork, and all were under custom LED fixtures bright enough to scald SPS. I'm giving away frags of purple hornets, king midas and gobstoppers because they are over growing my tanks, and I have to listen to this guy say you need T5's.

The formula for excellent zoa / paly growth in my experience is moderate nitrate (5-10ppm) and higher pH if you are running smaller tanks to compensate for C02 saturation (carbonic acid is bad for zoas, and kalk can fix this) along with elevated magnesium (not sure why, but it seems to help likely because it reduces competing bryopsis). Since my tanks all run low nutrient on their own because I keep low bioloads I now add potassium nitrate to keep nitrate at 5-10ppm, and zoa growth responds accordingly. Some larger palys (purple deaths / Sunny -Ds) will devour mysis or brine shrimp if dropped on them, and this drastically helps growth. Smalles zoas are filter feeders though.

Liquid suppliments like oyster of zoo fest don't have enough protein mass in them when used in larger tanks. I use 4 caps in one of my 12gallons just to get a feeding response.

THis guy has it. I use Leds personally. I started off with a cheap 165w unit from ebay, then I moved into some more Name brand stuff, before I settled with my kessils. Love them.

 

[ReefRealEstate]

As we know with with Zoas they are one of the most toxic things in the water, I am a huge fan of the mixed colours when they are put together like that in tanks. Absolutely love them, I am no expert by any means but when I have been snorkelling and diving down on the reefs I have yet to see mixed colonies. I have not seen them all of course so correct me if I am wrong but all I ever usually see is one colour together, then another colour of Zoas in same region but never right beside or even really near for that matter.
Now that being said I have seen a lot of tanks where they are mixed and are successful but it seems that on occasion one of them gets ****ed and it releases the toxins and the others either have stunted growth or get killed off.
I was chatting with my LFS guy and he had them for a long time then all of a sudden they all died off accept for one of them, the more dominant of the bunch. He said they basically melted in a few days. So yes lighting matters but more than anything sometimes they stall just to be able to deal with the environment around themselves. I currently have a couple different colours, bright green and bright orange, it seems to me the bright orange are always wide open and the green open about 70% and all the ones that border along the orange are all curled in order to not touch them. I think with time they will just get along, but hearing the story about my LFS guy losing all of his but one after a long period of time is the nature of the beast we are trying so desperately to control. My entire view of this hobby is educate yourselves to the best of your ability, be extremely observant, and understand, it is what it is. Nature will sort it self out no matter what we do. Cheers :beer:

 

[Grandlotus]

You need to up your flow.

Can you tell us tank size, amount of fish and post a picture of your tank?

 

[organism]

Have a couple of diff colonies of zooanthids for 8 month's now and there
not growing at all...my phospates and nitrates are very very low is this the reason??

No growth for 8 months?
Another LED problem... Get some good t5s over that tank to start with. :thumbsup:
Grandis.

What do you think it could be then?

Well, a realistic first guess would be that the nitrates and phosphates are very low. A still somewhat realistic guess is "how bright are you white LED's?". An unhelpful first guess would be "LED's are bad." A condescending and uninformed first guess would be "LED's are bad they only cause problems so get yourself some T5's." My zoa colors under LED beat anyone's under T5's, guaranteed, but we still have flat-earthers apparently.

A Grandis is a poster child for what's wrong with these forums and the general lack of science education in general, and I urge those sick of his comments to not let up on the criticism.

Could not possibly agree more, it's like a race with himself to come off as both condescending and uninformed at the same time on almost every post and he's always winning. It's why I stopped coming into this forum. I dream of seeing the inevitable "moved on" name tag one day.

 

[organism]

So OP, to be a little more helpful and succinct, my opinion is that zoas need some amount of nutrients in the water column, and the best place to get those into the water is by feeding your fish a little more. Personally I dose potassium phosphate now, but you may need some more time in the hobby before going that route since you can cause tank issues if you're not careful. I wouldn't recommend dosing liquid nutrients or stuff into your water for corals. Zoas love fish poop, so feeding your fish more = happier zoas and other corals

Another issue might be your white LED's, zoas are not fans of those. The 6500k bulb you have definitely isn't doing you many favors either. They do love blue LED's though, although it looks like you don't have any solid blue LED strips. The way you listed your lighting makes it a little hard to picture, and some of those LED strips can have pretty low output. Can you post a photo of your lights and some of your zoas? Do your zoas have really long stems and kind of stretch for light, or are they small and compact close to the rocks they're on?

Also like others have mentioned zoas love flow, I keep them near my SPS and they grow like crazy. Under lower flow they grow ok but not super fast.

 

[RCS82]

Very nice tank. Continue with your LEDs!
I've seen much better tanks than yours under LEDs though. Your corals don't look that good...
One more to help this thread, I hope!

Grandis.

What the f.
Is this guy serious haha?

 

[ReefRealEstate]

For those who think LED can't grow coral well.....

I have not had any issues of growing Zoas under LED or any type of coral for that matter. I have a mixed reef with 20 SPS, 6 leathers, 5 lps, 6 zoa colonies and far too many mushrooms to count.
This is 15 month growth of this colony. I have 5 other zoa colonies that all have had great growth similar to this time laps.
I couldn't be happier with my LED setup.
Mine grow fastest at 5 -10ppm nitrate.

What lights? How long did it take for them to grow like that. My Zoas were open, now they aren't as much, same spot, good flow but not crazy. Nitrates are around 10 ppm. I may be having a phosphate issue around .1 but I have my bio pellets going so that should help in a few weeks time.