0 nitrate 0 phosphate but algae???

lee 1980

New member
Hi all, i'm new to this site but not reef keeping


My tank is 26" cube
30 ish kg of live rock
5" DSB in the tank
skimmer
I have dosed prodibio from the start & i dose zeostart 2
My problem is i have an algae problem but my test results suggest i shouldn't have
Nitrate 0 tested with salifert & Phosphate 0 tested with D&D merek kit

Before anyone asks yes i use RO water & my TDS is 0

Can someone help?
 
It has also been lab tested and the nitrate was 0 & the p04 was 0.046 since then i have added p04 remover.
I have been ripping it out when i do my water changes once a week.
the algae has improved but it's still growing
 
I don't know the exact science behind it, but you will test zero becuase its not free floating in the water. The algae has eating it to live, so its in the algae. When you take out the algae, you take out the PO4.

How old are your bulbs. There quite a controversy as to whether old bulbs contribute to algae or not. Do the research and decide for yourself. I know new bulbs helped me on my old tank.
 
This is how it was looking a couple of months back

P1020486.jpg
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this is how it was looking 2 weeks ago, there has been an improvement but it's still growing

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This tank has only been set up since March this year but i have had the live rock 2.5 years now
I have algae eating hermits
turbo snails
vibex snails
cerith snails
sally light foot crab
tuxedo urchin
cleaner shrimps

i have a decent variety
 
algea can grow with the most miniscule ammt of nutrients. u see people with immaculate parameters but algea. u can have high nutrients but no algea as long as everything is in balance. algea is a single celled organism and doesnt need as much to thrive as complex organisms. u probably have exces iron or silica, or u have a deficiency in something that isnt alllowing ur coral/cheat to eat up the excess nutrients and allowing the algea to get to it. all my tanks have had 10 ppm or higher nitrates and no outbreaks of algea.
 
I agree, everyone keeps telling me that you must have i phosphate because of the algae & it just isn't true i haven't.............i believe i do have high nutrients as i'm seeing flatworms in the tank.
So what do i do.........the reason for me running prodibio & the zeostart2 was to reduce nitrate & phosphate & nutrients.

What can i do now..........i'm tempted to leave the tank in darkness for 3 days but i don't really think that will cure it
 
You're thinking about this the wrong way. That algae is doing you a favor: All the nitrate and phosphate would still be in your water if all that algae didn't take it up. And you are doing it right. When you test, you are getting 0s. That means that the algae has no trouble removing all of the nutrients from what you feed and is nutrient limited. And you can see from the photos that the algae is slowly losing ground. That's exactly what you want. That algae is, in fact, dying, just really slowly. You don't want it to do it all at once, because that'll put a ton of nutrients back into the water and you'll just get another algae bloom (not to mention the all-at-once release of whatever nasty metabolites the algae are storing).

How to speed things up: (1) Sucking out the algae as it dies removes another source of nutrients for the algae that remains alive. (2) Add a competitor for the hair algae (algae in a sump with better conditions). (3) Skim well to strip stuff out of the water as the algae dies. (4) Water changes. (5) Herbivory.

Good luck!
 
So what your saying is just stick to what i'm doing?
every sunday i do a water change & rip out as much as i can algae wise
i don't have a sump on this tank
i'm struggling to wet skim as my skimmer cup is at it's lowest setting but is always a dark skimmate
as for herbivors, there should be enough in there
tuxedo urchin, turbo snails, cerith snails, dove snails, vibex snails, algae eating hermits, scopas tang, foxface & algae blenny to name just a few.

Should i increase my prodibio to each week? what about the zeostart2?
I have actually thought about stopping them but i keep telling myself that the prodibio is working & the algae is down to the prodibio getting all the rubbish out of the rocks
 
One question you should be asking is where the available nutrients are coming from? Is it husbandry such as feeding your fish or could it be that your live rocks are bound with phosphates? You said the rock was 2.5 years old but was it bought from another reefer?
Could you take the rock out to cook it? You could take a piece out that does not have any corals and let it rest in the dark for a month or two. At the end if you look in your holding tank you would be suprised how much flakes off and how much detritus and other nutrients are bound in the rock. Then stick it back in. If the rock does not get hairy again then you have your answer (mostly).
Or you could let things to continue because you seem to have pretty good patience which is key in this hobby (obsession).

Good luck.
 
It's not due to over feeding.........i have had this rock when i first set my 4ft reef tank up then i upgraded to a 5ft which i did get dinoflagets.........i had a major mishap with the tank & lost 2oolites all over my floor.........all the rocks went into vats for around 3 months until i set back up again........i only used some of the rock the rest of it i set up a 4ft tank for my mate who knows nothing about marines & he hasn't had any problems..lol
Cooking the rock isn't an option & i really don't think i can take all the rock out of my tank
Patience is something i have learned since keeping marines......i have just ordered an extra power head to help
 
So what your saying is just stick to what i'm doing?

That's exactly what I'm saying. That's the tough way to go, but a good way, IMO. It's how I got rid of this and all the other algae that grew up after it in succession:

FTS_25March2009.jpg


That was some pretty impressive algae. Some of it got to around 3' long. :)

If you don't have a sump, would you be willing to add something like halimeda (because algae eaters usually leave it alone) to your display in order to compete with the HA somewhat? Watch the calcium, though, as that algae sucks down a lot.

Should i increase my prodibio to each week? what about the zeostart2?

I can't help you there. All I add is calcium, alk, and magnesium in between water changes. Speaking of, what are your pH, alk, calcium, and magnesium levels?
 
Wow thats some serious algae growth there mate

I do have halimeda in my main tank but not alot of it, i could do with some more really.

My parameters are all good
s.g 1.025
cal 410
mag 1320
alk 8dkh
i'm not sure on ph as i sold my probe as it never seemed to be a problem
 
Yeah, the aragonite sand I bought came with whatever that algae uses as a dormant stage in the sand. As soon as my cycle started, that stuff took off. The rock structure in there is concrete, so there were no space competitors at all. It was pretty much a nightmare there for a while. But, it's just a bad memory now. (I kid. That first algae was actually kind of pretty. Some of the successors weren't.) It wound up being about six months to really get it taken care of.
 
There are a lot of hobbyists in your same position. Reducing your nitrate and phosphate levels to a zero reading will help in getting rid of many type of algae pests. IME, reducing nitrate and phosphate levels too low can kill or cause problems for many types of coral. Running GAC & GFO will all help in reducing the growth of these type of pests. In many cases they will not eradicate the pest. Vodka dosing will help reduce the nitrate and phosphate levels also, but will not necessarily eradicate the pest either.

A common problem is being able to identify your pest to a catagory correctly: true algae, cyano, dino, bacteria & other assorted pests that look similar. In many cases a micro look at your pest is best to properly ID it to one of these catagories.

IMHO, if you are faced with an algal type pest problem, it is best to implement an algae pest control program strategy:


1) Wet skimming with a good quality skimmer. Clean your skimmer cup at least once per week.

2) Reduce your nitrates and phosphates to a zero reading using the hobby grade test kits. See Randy's articles regarding this:

Phosphate and the Reef Aquarium
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php

Nitrate in the Reef Aquarium
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/august2003/chem.htm

3) Proper lighting. I find that the higher wavelength bulbs are less conducive to algae growth. I now run 20,000 K bulbs from using 10,000 K bulbs.

4) Proper day length is a good thing also. I would not run your lights for more than 12 hrs total. Keep in mind that light entering from a window nearby is added to this figure.

5) Running GAC is a good practice in my book. It will help reduce the total dissolved organic carbons in your tank water and this is a food source.

6) Proper 30% per month total water changes will help export the DOC as well as some of the pests in the water column. It will help maintain the micro-nutrients as well.

7) Physical removal of the pest by hand, scrubbing and siphoning is important as well. If the amount of pest in your aquarium is overwhelming, perhaps dealing with one section at a time is a better idea.

8) Proper water circulation in your tank to prevent dead zones. When dealing with cyanobacteria pests increasing the flow where it grows seems to help.

9) Use RODI water for all top-off, salt mixing, additive mixes... etc.

10) Dosing iron may have benefits for macro-algae, but if you are experiencing algae pest problems than I would stop dosing it as it can add to the problem in many cases.

11) If you are dosing other supplements such as vitamins, amino acids, or others that contain a mix of supplements other than the basic alk., calcium and magnesium, I would stop these until you gain control of your pest. This includes many of the store bought products with unknown ingredients. Dosing Vodka or sugar to reduce your nitrates and phosphates would be an exception in my opinion.

12) Proper feeding habits. This can be the number one problem when trying to reduce your nitrate and phosphate levels. Use low phosphate fish foods.

13) IMHO, lighted refugiums may be a problem when trying to deal with an algae type pest problem. They are wonderful when it comes to reducing nitrates and phosphates. However, the light over most refugiums is conducive to the microalgae type pests. If the refugium becomes infested with a microalgae pest, I would clean it throughly of all pests as best as possible, remove the macro and turn off the lights until you gain control of your pest. Re-using the same macroalgae later may serve as a source for re-infestation of your pest.

14) Adding fish and other creatures that will eat your algae pest will help.

15) There are other items that can be added to this list if others care too share and some of the items listed may be disputed. ;)

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If after you have tried all these procedures and you are still loosing the battle, I would recommend that you initiate the use of AlgaeFix Marine based on the reports I have seen in this thread:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1595003

I hate to see anyone give up on this hobby due to algae type pest problems.
;)
 
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