$1,000 Skimmer Budget

[jason2459]

I think it's funny all the hate going both ways. Reef Octopus over the years has been known to be a solid work horse and a good price point. They keep redesigning just like every other skimmer maker out there. Even Reef Dynamics has made some modifications from the original EuroReef. Air and water flow is not everything and needs to be matched to the body and neck of a skimmer that's a given. Every single skimmer maker out there has had issues with some skimmer owned by someone having some issue. Nothing made by humans in this world has ever been perfect. It all comes down to where someone is willing to spend their money and how much of it. There certainly are some skimmers not worth their weight in fish waste like coralife superskimmers but even those have had people get some good production out of them after some sever tweaking.

There is one fact though is that no mater how much money you spend on a skimmer none of them are very efficient and many brands no mater the cost perform about the same. This has been shown in a few studies now.

 

[James77]

First off, that is completely untrue. There most definately is a science to it. Just because a skimmer makes foam doesn't mean it is skimming well. SRO is proof of that......they have been re-designed so many times over the past years because they haven't been able to get one to work well.

As to a great skimmer on a budget - Look at the Avast line. They have an outstanding product line with great customer service. You can't go wrong with Deltec, H&S or Bubble King, but they are more expensive. Reef Dynamices is another option.

Just do your research.....and don't listen to people saying that "a skimmer is a skimmer" or you will regret it.

Funny, the SRO I have is on par performance wise with the H&S I had years ago, and the Bubble King I had could not tocuh either one of them. Reef Octopus have a whole assortment of good to great perfroming skimmers ranging from budget to the SROs. Most every single piece of equipment goes through changes, even Bubble Kings.

He also should not fall for the silly mindset so prevalent in this hobby that the more money you blow on a skimmer the better it will be. It is completely false. There is alot of hype in the higher end skimmers, always having their prices justified by that vague area of research and development. Despite you not thinking so, skimmers are just mixing air with water. While there is obviously a little more to it than that, it is also not rocket science. There is no way that I could be convinced of the thought that all the R+D, which amounts to some trial and error, could justify the disgusting prices on some skimmers. Then there is the argument that the money goes to better support and warranty.....but funny that the SRO have 3x the warranty as Bubble Kings, with the service to back it up. The BK and Deltec service stinks from what I have read here and online, at least here in America.

 

[96p993]

First off, that is completely untrue. There most definately is a science to it. Just because a skimmer makes foam doesn't mean it is skimming well. SRO is proof of that......they have been re-designed so many times over the past years because they haven't been able to get one to work well.

As to a great skimmer on a budget - Look at the Avast line. They have an outstanding product line with great customer service. You can't go wrong with Deltec, H&S or Bubble King, but they are more expensive. Reef Dynamices is another option.

Just do your research.....and don't listen to people saying that "a skimmer is a skimmer" or you will regret it.

Its funny, you say do your research but I would like to see the research you did to be able to make these statements

 

[gcarroll]

.... but good enough for all the copies from China ...

That pretty much sums it up!

 

[sirreal63]

An Askoll is a better pump then a bubble blaster. Why the hate?

Bubble blaster is a copy. They are comparable but the Bubble Blaster is still a Chinese knock off that has more start up issues, rust issues, so far we know of at least one that "caught fire", and impeller swelling issues. Sure its a great pump and I wouldn't think twice about purchasing one but its not an Askoll. Never has been and never will be. Its an excellent performing knock off. I am sure after a few years the issues will be worked out.

Laguna is a brand the pump is sold under but the pump is made by Askoll which is a high quality pump manufacturer in Italy with production numbering in the millions each year.

A Red Dragon is a modified version of the same askoll motor block.

A Bubble Blaster is no more custom made for skimmers then an askoll. Do you honestly think they wound the motor block for skimmer pumps? Dude they don't sell enough skimmers to pay for a factory to build motors. Don't believe in the marketing hype. It is a motor block that has been modified to be used as a skimmer pump.

Here is your reef octopus factory in china. Doesn't look like they have the type of facility to produce motors. Could be a different part of the factory but my guess is just like RE they are purchasing a motor block and modifying it or having the factory modify it for them. Only difference is their motor block is probably much less expensive then the Askoll yet they are commanding roughly the same price as SWC. Which is a more accurate knock off of the Red Dragon and uses the real Askoll motor block.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fU0EGMBfI8

Air volume does not always equal better performance. The people who have made a lot of money designing skimmers will tell you that with complete confidence. If that was the case we would all have swc 120 cones with bb 10000 pumps maintaining our 2000g reefs. The SRO/XP 5000 skimmers are probably the best bang for the buck on the market right now for a 300g tank but it is not the only skimmer out there.

How many times has Reef Octopus changed their design?

After reading through all of this, I don't think I have much to add, this is pretty darned close! Askol makes the motor block, Laguna is one of many that use this block, another one is Hagen, and if you have been around a while you will see the Askol motor block on the old Hagen 900 series. One look at the bubble blaster and you will see what it was copied from, can you say Askol? Look at the old OTP pumps, can you say Ocean Runner? What's really funny is when Chinese companies start copying each other. IIRC the Bubble Magnus had the first in body pump, then comes Octo. It isn't all bad but it isn't all good either.

Thank you Klaus for popping into this thread, you as much as anyone have been hurt by the Chinese knockoff business. The Chinese pay no attention to patent rights or worry about legality from unsafe products, they just crank out as much product as they can. Of course there are good products made in China, and there are bad ones as well.

 

[USC-fan]

Wow this thread blew up.... The guy brought a used BK...


Anyway Klaus Jansen, I have nothing but respect for the work you have done!

I'm not looking for getting into a debate in this thread. We have been down this road many times in the past....if you look on the forum you can find out all you need on this topic...

Also to the ones asking a still run my DAS ex-2 on my new tank and wouldn't trade it for any other skimmer design. That skimmer came out in 2003~ BTW. That design is bullet proof and it sad more skimmer designers have gotten away from the recirculating nw design with counter current input.

 

[sirreal63]

You have been around enough to know people will defend their skimmer to point of death. I too prefer recirculation, and the design has been around a very long time, probably because it works so well.

 

[HHIreefer843]

yall iz crazy hahaha

 

[moondoggy4]

Reminds me of the old skimmer flame wars of a couple of years ago. Good info here and great reading. Nice to see ol Klaus pop in again. Where's hahameister?

 

[USC-fan]

Reminds me of the old skimmer flame wars of a couple of years ago. Good info here and great reading. Nice to see ol Klaus pop in again. Where's hahameister?

Pretty sure he is banned... And yes its like old times on here.... :wave:

 

[sirreal63]

I miss Hahn, he was entertaining as well as informative and had the ability to make you think, even if he wasn't always right.

 

[USC-fan]

I miss Hahn, he was entertaining as well as informative and had the ability to make you think, even if he wasn't always right.

If you new guys want to read....

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1192831

We used to have some great debates. This is before cone hype began and before every skimmer designer rush to make a short cone shape single pass skimmer.

This is pretty much the reason i havent brought a new skimmer. Give me a cone if a have to but i want a bubble baster or "pond pump" on a recirc NW counter current design like the old deltec/H&S/DAS. And of course i run ozone.... :beer:

 

[Reefnut2010]

I have a SWC 180 xtreme cone with PSK2500 and have never had restart issues with it. It has a Red Devil impeller and skims like a freaking beast in my 125 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The PSK2500 is a good pump, but something newer and better came along and now it got the boot. Also, I'll take an Askoll over a BB anyday, but that is just me !!!!!!!!!!