1 year in and looking to improve

[reenact12321]

My current tank has been running for about a year. I gradually introduced a smattering of coral, and fish. My fish have been a pretty good success (some clown on clown domestic issues) but I've had kind of lackluster progress with corals. I'll set the table:

Tank:
40 Breeder Tetra tank with glass lid
45 lbs of live rock (some in the sump)
1" drain with high-back overflow box in the center of the tank. (single siphon that I just let run noisy, working on a gate valve to tune in the future)
15 gallon sump with ~gallons worth serving as a sad little refugium with light.
3/4" return pipe that splits into 4 flexible return heads, 2 on each side of the tank
4 flexible returns

Pump: Mag 9.5 lifting about 5'

Skimmer: Reef Octopus Classic 100SS in the sump
Running a 4" sock most of the time, in addition to the skimmer

Heat: two 150W heaters (one is about 1 degree lower and is backup, one is in sump, one is in DT

Lights: 2 Ocean Revive Arctic T247 (supposedly) 3W LEDs

running an ATO with untreated RO/DI

Stock List:
2 Ocellaris Clowns
1 Black Midas Blenny
1 Flame Hawk Fish

2 Scarlet Hermits
10 dwarf Blue Leg Hermits
~10 dime sized snails
~20 Tiny snails
1 large and one very small Emerald Crab
3 sexy shrimp (at least I think there's still 3)
2 BTAs
A devastating number of vermitid snails (not a fan: hitchhikers)

Green Star Polyps
Brown Polyps
Button Polyps
Devil's hand leather
1 twin hammer
1 Branching hammer
a small colony of round brown/green trachyphyllia
a small colony of red/green trachyphillia
a single montipora button (refuses to grow)
2 colonies of different Zoas
1 colony of war coral
2 different colonies of Acans
some candy cane coral

Most of these are very small frags and have grown little or not at all since I started. I've been frustrated by the lack of growth and recently one of my trachyphyllias retracted rather notably(still has good color just a lot of exposed skeleton)

I'm hoping to ask for advice on ways to improve, things to be checking.

I used to do water changes of about 20% every two weeks, but after a skimmer spill and later the addition of a new fish I've found it better to do weekly changes of 10 and 20% alternating (adding a GFO reactor next week)

I use reef crystals salt.

I rebuilt my sump and added a refugium about 4 months ago. It has been lackluster, despite planting of a few kinds of macro in a bed of miracle mud, the majority of what grows in there is the hair algae I was battling in the top of the tank I haven't removed it because each time I do my hands are covered in pods and I figured it better to leave them.

My tank was like this last week when I started seeing the trach irritation and algae/cyano I've been fighting:

Nitrates 0
Phosphates .18 due to a skimmer overflow,
pH 7.8
K Hardness: 8
Calcium: 480
Lights: 70%B 45%W
Blues run for 11 hours, whites run for 9

I've a larger water change than usual started treating with a buffer for the pH

Last night:
Nitrate: 0
Phosphate: 0
pH 8.2
K : 10
Calcium: 520 (I think I might have slightly elevated numbers from the Carbonate add to raise pH/hardness)
Lights: 50%Blue 35%White
Blue runs for 10 hours White runs for 4 (was recommended to help with algae.

Temperature has occasionally ranged as high as 82 with the spring weather swinging the house from brisk to stuffy, but never anything above 82.5 It averages around 77, would lower be better?

This is pretty much what it looks like, note for the upset acan on the bottom left looks about the same, the red trach on the right is much more recessed than in the photo, and even my gsp have been kind of in retreat.
I can never figure out how to format so here's a link

What can I do to make for a better growth environment? What other parameters should I be checking. Not even my BTA has grown much in the 10 months I've had it. I'm being more careful about kalk but I don't believe it was every very low.

 

[kgeig001]

Many reef tanks don't get going for at least a year. When I first started, I had lackluster results the first year also and then things took off. The first year the tank goes through a lot of changes and then things start to really stabilize, (as long as you did things right), the corals are comfortable and before you know it, you're setting up a frag tank.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[reenact12321]

Thanks for the insight. my only real concern is why my one brain has been retracted for over a week. My GSP has been fairing poorly too. I don't have a multimeter handy, which at this point, stray voltage is the only thing I haven't ruled. out.

 

[kgeig001]

Your tank looks fine. All your corals look healthy. I see a lot of coralline algae, no hair algae, cyano or diatoms. The light you have is probably fine, none of your corals require intense lighting. In the pic, I see a green leather I believe, some acans, favia, lobos I think, candy cane. Can't remember the rest but I do know that besides the green leather, they are all slow growers. I think if you just add some more corals like frogspawn, hammers, maybe a torch, toadstool leather you'll see fast growth. I think your doing real good...keep it up. As long as it's not broke, don't try and fix it just add to it.

Edit...I didn't see a lot of the corals in your pic that you have listed. Is that an older pic? You may also want to try feeding your corals, you will see more growth. I believe adding amino acids (in moderation) is also good for growth. Good luck
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[reenact12321]

One hammer was actually flipped over when this photo was taken. Another was purchased after the photo,. I'm mostly disturbed by the inability to get the trachyphyllia to perk back up like it was in the photo. And also the montipora frag (difficult to see in the photo) won't grow at all

 

[Ron Reefman]

At one year you are just getting to the point where your tank is getting mature and stable. You have done well to hang in this long, don't get discouraged now. I did a 30g for a couple years and just as it was starting to work well, I upgraded to a 75g. Two more years and again things just getting good and I upgraded to a 180g. Six years into this tank and I can't believe how fast some corals grow!

Hang in there.

 

[Bent]

1 year = just hitting stride

 

[Jahalu]

Just a few thoughts. Make sure you're testing your RO/DI water with a tds meter just to make sure those phosphates are not coming from your water, and that your RO/DI unit is doing its job. Your tank is reasonably stocked, so you really shouldn't be battling hair algae. Personally, I don't think you need the buffer. 7.8 is ok. Also, you may want to check Mg. Reef crystals tend to be low in Mg and it is an easy thing to add. Do you feed your corals anything? My acans love formula 2 pellets! You might try chopped clams for your trachy. Montis are funny sometimes. They don't grow for a long time, then they take off. As long as there is no color loss and polyps are extended, just be patient.

 

[reenact12321]

Thanks everyone. I think I might be funneling a little bit of work/life anxiety into control-freak-ness with my tank, especially as it has been a lot of work to get the GHA, this red flakey bubble algae, and the cyano (that's mostly gone) under control. Hopefully when I get my GFO in the mail this week I can get the reactor running.

I will otherwise let it ride. I also probably need to stop asking advice from people trying to sell me stuff, I've been told everything from my lights are underpowered to my glass lid is killing my tank in the last week.

I will do a check on my RO/DI, I also want to do a stray voltage check, just for my own sanity with the retracted trach and GSP.

 

[jml1149]

My current tank has been running for about a year. I gradually introduced a smattering of coral, and fish. My fish have been a pretty good success (some clown on clown domestic issues) but I've had kind of lackluster progress with corals. I'll set the table:

Tank:
40 Breeder Tetra tank with glass lid NICE minus the glass lid
45 lbs of live rock (some in the sump)
1" drain with high-back overflow box in the center of the tank. (single siphon that I just let run noisy, working on a gate valve to tune in the future) Careful it will clog. I promise.
15 gallon sump with ~gallons worth serving as a sad little refugium with light. Any fuge is better than no fuge. What kind of light?
3/4" return pipe that splits into 4 flexible return heads, 2 on each side of the tank
4 flexible returns

Pump: Mag 9.5 lifting about 5'

Skimmer: Reef Octopus Classic 100SS in the sump
Running a 4" sock most of the time, in addition to the skimmer

Heat: two 150W heaters (one is about 1 degree lower and is backup, one is in sump, one is in DT

Lights: 2 Ocean Revive Arctic T247 (supposedly) 3W LEDs

running an ATO with untreated RO/DI What does untreated RO/DI mean? What kind of ATO? I see kalk below...

Stock List:
2 Ocellaris Clowns
1 Black Midas Blenny
1 Flame Hawk Fish

2 Scarlet Hermits
10 dwarf Blue Leg Hermits Dwarfs become monsters and eat snails. Never will I ever put a crab in my tank again. Like ever. Sorry. Venting
~10 dime sized snails
~20 Tiny snails
1 large and one very small Emerald Crab THESE ARE THE WORST
3 sexy shrimp (at least I think there's still 3)
2 BTAs
A devastating number of vermitid snails (not a fan: hitchhikers)

Green Star Polyps
Brown Polyps
Button Polyps
Devil's hand leather
1 twin hammer What does twin hammer mean?
1 Branching hammer
a small colony of round brown/green trachyphyllia
a small colony of red/green trachyphillia
a single montipora button (refuses to grow)
2 colonies of different Zoas
1 colony of war coral
2 different colonies of Acans
some candy cane coral

Most of these are very small frags and have grown little or not at all since I started. I've been frustrated by the lack of growth and recently one of my trachyphyllias retracted rather notably(still has good color just a lot of exposed skeleton)

I'm hoping to ask for advice on ways to improve, things to be checking.

I used to do water changes of about 20% every two weeks, but after a skimmer spill and later the addition of a new fish I've found it better to do weekly changes of 10 and 20% alternating (adding a GFO reactor next week) How about 20% every week?

I use reef crystals salt.

I rebuilt my sump and added a refugium about 4 months ago. It has been lackluster, despite planting of a few kinds of macro in a bed of miracle mud, the majority of what grows in there is the hair algae I was battling in the top of the tank I haven't removed it because each time I do my hands are covered in pods and I figured it better to leave them. Hair algae is ok too. Anything green and growing is helping

My tank was like this last week when I started seeing the trach irritation and algae/cyano I've been fighting: I recommend ChemiClean for cyano. I get it add chemicals, blah blah blah...but you're already GFOing...it just works.

Nitrates 0
Phosphates .18 due to a skimmer overflow,
pH 7.8
K Hardness: 8
Calcium: 480
Lights: 70%B 45%W
Blues run for 11 hours, whites run for 9

I've a larger water change than usual started treating with a buffer for the pH I wish the buffer police were as bad as the tang police. Buffer destroys tanks. Legit. Fish only, fine. Reef tanks? Throw it on the ground

Last night:
Nitrate: 0 Sorry, but this can't be possible without some means of exporting Nitrate other than water changes.
Phosphate: 0 Sudden changes in phosphate are bad as well
pH 8.2 Need to find the cause of low pH, not add buffer
K : 10 It went from 8 to 10 in a week, when will it stop?
Calcium: 520 (I think I might have slightly elevated numbers from the Carbonate add to raise pH/hardness) pH buffer doesn't add Calcium. It adds death.
What is your Mag?
Lights: 50%Blue 35%White Photo inhibition is a real problem. These "discount" LED's are like little lasers of death. That and buffer.
Blue runs for 10 hours White runs for 4 (was recommended to help with algae.

Temperature has occasionally ranged as high as 82 with the spring weather swinging the house from brisk to stuffy, but never anything above 82.5 It averages around 77, would lower be better? Stable would be better. Some corals are more sensitive than others to temp swings. Perhaps time to invest in a temp controller.

This is pretty much what it looks like, note for the upset acan on the bottom left looks about the same, the red trach on the right is much more recessed than in the photo, and even my gsp have been kind of in retreat.
I can never figure out how to format so here's a link I cant see this at work, sorry

What can I do to make for a better growth environment? What other parameters should I be checking. Not even my BTA has grown much in the 10 months I've had it. I'm being more careful about kalk Kalk?? What happened with the Kalk? And your pH is that low? Something is amiss. but I don't believe it was every very low.

Even after a year, consistency is key, and it doesn't seem like you're consistently consistent yet.

 

[jml1149]

Thanks everyone. I think I might be funneling a little bit of work/life anxiety into control-freak-ness with my tank, especially as it has been a lot of work to get the GHA, this red flakey bubble algae, and the cyano (that's mostly gone) under control. Hopefully when I get my GFO in the mail this week I can get the reactor running.

I will otherwise let it ride. I also probably need to stop asking advice from people trying to sell me stuff, I've been told everything from my lights are underpowered to my glass lid is killing my tank in the last week. Yeah glass lids are death. The ocean doesn't have a glass lid, neither should your tank. But really though, a screen mesh top would be much better.

I will do a check on my RO/DI, I also want to do a stray voltage check, just for my own sanity with the retracted trach and GSP.

 

[SammySam]

Keep it Simple

Keep it Simple

Im just voicing out on my experience. I took advices from many so called INTERMEDIATE or PROFESSIONAL REEFER and spent thounds of bucks on all kinds of expensive useless equipments and chemicals. But all failed after a year of efford!!! I ended up trying to keep my corals alive with all these advices instead of thriving.
List of advices: )Cycle your tank until nitrate is "0"). (Can't add corals for atleast 6 months after setup.) (Huge skimmer.) (Over priced LED ligts.) (Water temperature cant exceed 78 degrees) Big mistake i made! There is not such thing as Zero nitrate anywhere in our ocean on this blue planet. Zero nitrate means lack of nutrients. So now we add nutrients to feed corals which makes Nitrate. Now more chemical need added to get rid of nitrate or so big water change. Water change is good but your criters now have to constantly adjust to the new conditions instead of living and thriving. Skimmer helps get rid of bio waste but over use will rob everything corals need to thrive. LED lights never have any proven records that it can produce the light that the sun does on our oceans. It only make your corals look good to human eyes. Metal Halide is the closest. And temperature??? Most reefs around the tropics and Australia i dived in hold steady temperature between 75 and 85 degrees. That is way above suggested temperature from all the so called experience people.

The bottom line is i decided to use common sense and stop fighting Nitrate and leave plenty nutrients in my tank and do 10% water change weekly. Got rid of the fancy 2000bucks led and hung up the metal halide with fluorescent combo. Keep my skimmer running 8hr a day. GFO reactor is gone. The only thing i feed my tank with now is just phyto. My parimeters are now steady since i went this route and Nitrate stay steady at 10, PH at 8.0, Nitrite Zero, and Ammonia at Zero for 3 months now. I have a mixture of over 20 breeds of corals from soft to hard and they all doing great since. All my sps grow close to 1inch on each tips in 3 months, lps grow 20% in size and most mushroom i have double. But 1 colony of Acro i have got my attention by double up in 3 months. I got it the size of a small orange....it is now bigger than a baseball.

My conclusion is try to replicate the natural eco system as much as you can. Small water change often is better. Don't wait until parimeters spike then chage water. Average Nitrate level in most coral reefs in our ocean is between 10 to 40. And if anyone can show me which coral reefs in our oceans has Zreo Nitrate......PLEASE give me some enlightenment. Im not here to prove anyone wrong.... but i hate it when people are being misleading on some very basic biology and scared into that you need all kinds of expensive equipmenta to grow corals. And the ZERO Nitrate myth is definitely a MYTH. You don't need experience to grow coral. You just need basic understanding of how they grow, where they came from and what they need in thier natural environment so you can try to replicate it as much as you can.

 

[Reeferfourlife]

+1 on nutrients. Don't keep zero of phospate and nitrate. Your tank is lacking food in the water columns. My tank been running 12 years with phosphate at around .1 and nitrate at 10 to 20. All my softies is fight for space now.

 

[reenact12321]

Reefer, the reason I want to drag phosphates down, is I have had major GHA, and the snails and crabs haven't made a dent. the photo doesn't even begin to tell the mess I have in the back of the rocks and it's even irritating some corals. I try to scrub it out, I even took one particularly coated rock out and put it in my fuge.

 

[reenact12321]

Originally Posted by reenact12321 View Post

running an ATO with untreated RO/DI What does untreated RO/DI mean? What kind of ATO? I see kalk below... Sorry, no kalk I meant KH Hardness below, something I hadn't been monitoring until recently

2 Scarlet Hermits
10 dwarf Blue Leg Hermits Dwarfs become monsters and eat snails. Never will I ever put a crab in my tank again. Like ever. Sorry. Venting I'm with you, was following the advice of friends and I hate them, took a dozen out (he suggested 1 per gallon) I tried to replace them with snails and the ebay shop sent me an overwhelming number of snails and crabs and my LFS shop is only open a couple days a week so I kept them rather than let them die, otherwise I was thinning them (not replacing deaths, giving away to the friend who swears by them)



I used to do water changes of about 20% every two weeks, but after a skimmer spill and later the addition of a new fish I've found it better to do weekly changes of 10 and 20% alternating (adding a GFO reactor next week) How about 20% every week?Okay, I'll try that for awhile, though it's hard to pick who to follow, less changes, more changes, big changes small changes.



I rebuilt my sump and added a refugium about 4 months ago. It has been lackluster, despite planting of a few kinds of macro in a bed of miracle mud, the majority of what grows in there is the hair algae I was battling in the top of the tank I haven't removed it because each time I do my hands are covered in pods and I figured it better to leave them. Hair algae is ok too. Anything green and growing is helping Good to know. I'm running a little 12" finnex light over the fuge by the way, Lots of growth though I need to put some black panels in to keep things from growing in my skimmer chamber.

My tank was like this last week when I started seeing the trach irritation and algae/cyano I've been fighting: I recommend ChemiClean for cyano. I get it add chemicals, blah blah blah...but you're already GFOing...it just works. Yeah that's what I used and it worked nicely

I've a larger water change than usual started treating with a buffer for the pH I wish the buffer police were as bad as the tang police. Buffer destroys tanks. Legit. Fish only, fine. Reef tanks? Throw it on the ground All the differing opinions here, there seems to be a fair amount of agreement to stop this, I will stop

Last night:
Nitrate: 0 Sorry, but this can't be possible without some means of exporting Nitrate other than water changes. I don't know what to tell you, I use a redsea kit and I never see nitrates on the scale since my cycle.
Phosphate: 0 Sudden changes in phosphate are bad as well It went from barely on the scale to back off the scale, not exactly super dramatic
pH 8.2 Need to find the cause of low pH, not add buffer Any suggestions?
K : 10 It went from 8 to 10 in a week, when will it stop? I would assume now, because I'm not dosing anymore buffer....

What is your Mag? I don't have a mag measuring kit, I'll put it on the shopping list

Lights: 50%Blue 35%White Photo inhibition is a real problem. These "discount" LED's are like little lasers of death. What do you mean by this? inhibition? from the glass? Also, would appreciate curtailing the dramatic "death" business. Since I haven't figured out how to replicate a small fusion-star above my tank, do you have any Constructive Suggestions?

Temperature has occasionally ranged as high as 82 with the spring weather swinging the house from brisk to stuffy, but never anything above 82.5 It averages around 77, would lower be better? Stable would be better. Some corals are more sensitive than others to temp swings. Perhaps time to invest in a temp controller. If I'm removing the lid, I think that might make the difference since the room never gets that hot. Otherwise I'll look at a fan to start

Please ignore the kalk comment, I've never dosed kalk, just meant KH Hardness was something I've just started monitoring.

Thanks for the feedback, Just some clarification and follow up questions.

 

[reenact12321]

Update: 1 year in and looking to Improve

Update: 1 year in and looking to Improve

So, I did my weekly water change. After that Nitrates are back off the scale, (they had creeped back on)

Phosphates are showing .03 or so and I realized I was misreading the test which means I was giving a falsely high number before. I'm still going to fire up that reactor and try to starve out some algae hold outs when the GFO arrives on Thursday.

I also added a few things while I'm getting it in shape. One newbie mistake I made was buying lots of round rocks that don't stack well, so I transplanted a shelf piece from my LFS's quarantine tank, did a quick rinse with water change water and in it went. I also added my first monti cap and a duncan which is something I've wanted for awhile.

My trachyphyllia is still mad at me for some reason, and I am pretty sure the GSP is being eaten by a crab (making arrangements to re-home him)

Lots of pictures below.

http://i.imgur.com/OzZBzaD.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/WhUZepC.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/I6DMfxW.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/XS6Nz6v.jpg

 

[jml1149]

How are you maintaining Alk and Ca? LED lights are deceptive because they're so directional. Not a ton of light spills out of the tank and our eyes perceive that to be "dim".

I don't know the exact biological processes involved, but I know that too much light will kill corals. At some point between killing corals and thriving, too much light will inhibit growth. I think it's due to an excess of Oxygen, which can be poisonous. When I had similar lights I ran the whites on the first tick it would let me and the blues at 20%. Got modest growth at those levels.

Also, I don't think anyone will disagree that consistency is key, but if you just started measuring Alk and have never measured Mg, you've got a ways to go.

A tank that size with that many corals probably can't thrive on water changes alone.

I assume this was taking at or near feeding time as I can see some feeding tentacles. But your Euphyllia look annoyed as well. Can't judge color based on pics but I would expect more PE.

How do you control your lights?

The white edge on the monti is a great sign, I had one that wasn't growing at all and nonwhite edge. I figured out the problem and wammo bammo growing with white edges

 

[jml1149]

Also I do like the rock setup, big fan of 2 islands

 

[reenact12321]

Since you were very clear that buffer and kalk were "Death!" I maintain both through water changes, Last night after my change, alk was 9, pH was 8, calcium was 460.

I've ordered the better red sea MG, CA, KH test kit so I can finally ditch my API kit that I think may have something to do with the wide variation in readings.

I've recently switched to mostly feeding omega or spectrum pellet most of the time (was feeding all frozen meat and mix before)

I did feed the corals, I target feed with coral frenzy.

From the Euphelia, I assume we're talking about the hammer on the left. He was happier about an hour before, I think he was in a state of bedtime transition and hasn't learned that feeding time is right around then (It is a new addition)

The monti cap is a hopeful project, traded a big piece of that devil's hand that had dropped and grown for it.


I control my lights through the timer built in. It controls the level and 0-100 (a light meter guy did a study, it's more like 17%-100% on a sliding scale) and it keeps time, the lights do not ramp but they go blues on at 1PM, whites (and green and red) on at 5, whites off at 9, lights off at 11

 

[jml1149]

Since you were very clear that buffer and kalk were "Death!" Not kalk, just buffer. And I mean it. I maintain both through water changes, Last night after my change, alk was 9, pH was 8, calcium was 460. I think you're at the point where water changes won't be enough for the thriving tank you're after, especially once a week

I've ordered the better red sea MG, CA, KH test kit so I can finally ditch my API kit that I think may have something to do with the wide variation in readings. Nice. API is not my favorite.

I've recently switched to mostly feeding omega or spectrum pellet most of the time (was feeding all frozen meat and mix before) I use a mix but its a preference I believe

I did feed the corals, I target feed with coral frenzy. Do your euphyilla eat Mysis?

From the Euphelia, I assume we're talking about the hammer on the left. Both actuallyHe was happier about an hour before, I think he was in a state of bedtime transition and hasn't learned that feeding time is right around then (It is a new addition) How often do you feed your corals?

The monti cap is a hopeful project, traded a big piece of that devil's hand that had dropped and grown for it. The white is legit a good sign


I control my lights through the timer built in. It controls the level and 0-100 (a light meter guy did a study, it's more like 17%-100% on a sliding scale) and it keeps time, the lights do not ramp but they go blues on at 1PM, whites (and green and red) on at 5, whites off at 9, lights off at 11 Nice.

How do you ATO?

I'd suggest taking ALK measurements every day for two weeks, Ca once a week, and determining the ALK consumption of your tank. Then, start with Kalkwasser to maintain your Ca and Alk daily, as opposed to weekly. Those types of weekly swings are not conducive to the growth you're after.

Kalk and removal of the glass top will also help with your low pH. Once you get your chemistry straightened out and your dosing structured, it might be time to look at the brightness of the lights.