1000 Gallon Build- Here we go- Lots of Pictures

A couple final thought and recap on how I would approach this is to utilize the surface area for powerful returns and incorporate sea swirls and utilize the overflow box as much as possible. I would try to get as much flow as I could from that area. When you really think about it much of the volume and area in the overflow is wasted space. You may have to make the box a little bigger to accomplish things like internal wave boxes, but aesthetically it will look much better not seeing powerheads, plus you can completely hide the center overflow with corals and aquascaping.

As far as the sand bed goes, I see quite a few diamond watchmen goby earn their lunch for you. ;)
 
Sonicboom said:
the power heads can't sit right up at the water line or they will suck air and you'll have a tank full of bubbles, an option is to drop them below and behind some rocks and point them up.
Click to expand...

Yes- agree with this for sure. I wasnt suggesting they are right at the water- even though my crappy schematic might have suggested it so. the power heads would have to be submerged.

What if the overflow box was bigger? Instead of 7x7, it was 10x10 and the powerbeads sat inside the overflow box- hidden from sight an there was holes in the overflow that would pump water?

The overflow hides the power heads, you could put 3-4 inside the tall column at different heights and different directions?

Only negative is that you have to drill the sides of the overflow and could you make the column big enough to put a powerhead in there??
 
8000 would be 10x turnover which will be great for just return water and supplemental flow. I would probably use the second 2" pipe for a total of 16,000 to really get some water moving. I just had another idea... which would fit well with the total of 16,000. I assume the return would be coming back through the overflow box and not above the tank. So we would have to do some calculating to determine head height and what size pipe, but lets say you run one pipe up and out of the water to feed 4 sea swirls in each corner at 2,000 gph each and then just run another pipe up and over, split 4 ways (one for each side of the box) but about 1/2 way down in the tank pushing 2,000 gph each. Obviously siphon breaks (multiple) would be extremely important. But the pipe could be completely camouflaged with rock and coral along with the box.
 
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Socaltoaz said:
Yes- agree with this for sure. I wasnt suggesting they are right at the water- even though my crappy schematic might have suggested it so. the power heads would have to be submerged.

What if the overflow box was bigger? Instead of 7x7, it was 10x10 and the powerbeads sat inside the overflow box- hidden from sight an there was holes in the overflow that would pump water?

The overflow hides the power heads, you could put 3-4 inside the tall column at different heights and different directions?

Only negative is that you have to drill the sides of the overflow and could you make the column big enough to put a powerhead in there??
Click to expand...

Powerheads in the overflow box is what I was suggesting earlier. As far as the negative you mentioned, in this case wouldn't it be great if the dry side of a Vortech could be submerged? Perhaps it's worth a shot to contact Ecotech and see what they say. Maybe it wouldn't take much to make the dry side submersible.
 
CuzzA said:
In this case wouldn't it be great if the dry side of a Vortech could be submerged? Perhaps it's worth a shot to contact Ecotech and see what they say. Maybe it wouldn't take much to make the dry side submersible.
Click to expand...



Ill check! this might be the solution.
 
CuzzA said:
8000 would be 10x turnover which will be great for just return water and supplemental flow. I would probably use the second 2" pipe for a total of 16,000 to really get some water moving. I just had another idea... which would fit well with the total of 16,000. I assume the return would be coming back through the overflow box and not above the tank. So we would have to do some calculating to determine head height and what size pipe, but lets say you run one pipe up and out of the water to feed 4 sea swirls in each corner at 2,000 gph each and then just run another pipe up and over, split 4 ways (one for each side of the box) but about 1/2 way down in the tank pushing 2,000 gph each. Obviously siphon breaks (multiple) would be extremely important. But the pipe could be completely camouflaged with rock and coral along with the box.
Click to expand...

This is certainly one option that could be clean. Im concerned that as you split the pipe 4 ways in each section and have multiple 90 degree jogs, you lose a lot of flow and in this case the return cant keep up with the 2 2inch drains that are feeding the sump.

What might work is if there is 1 2 inch drain giving roughly 8000 GPH to the sump and 2 returns coming back- you would lose a lot of pressure having to push water 70 feet back, up and through the multiple bends in the pac.


What if instead of this, there was one 2 inch drain going to sump, and one return feeding water back- this gives us 8000 GPH roughly 10x turnover for the water to go through sump and skimmer.

Then we have 4 powerheads - tunze sea swirls etc - pick your name- in each corner that will provide additional flow to the tank. This gives best of both worlds.

In doing some reading here- you want 10x flow to the sump but 25-50x total flow which is provided by the powerheads.

Am I making sense? I like your idea as well- splitting the return to come up and over the skimmer and go back down and pump water back.
 
You're making perfect sense and your numbers are correct, IMO. The goal for 10x turnover opposed to the old magic number of 5x is that we want to be constantly supplying as much dirty water to our skimmer as possible. Skimmers become more efficient the dirtier the water is. When I occasionally dose phytoplankton in my reef, (although I turn the skimmer off for an hour or so so the filter feeders can eat) my skimmer yanks it right out very quickly and the cup must be drained.

Aside from that we look at possibly using our return for flow. If powerheads weren't an option then I would say you have to have the second 2" pipe. But it sounds like you're going to get wave makers in there one way or another so sticking with 10x turnover is just fine. And while there are plenty of pumps that can deliver that kind of flow, there is the risk that noise could become an issue. Think of a pool pump running all day transferring noise and vibration though pipes inside your house. No thanks. Of course the fact that the tank is pre plumbed in the foundation would probably eliminate any noise.

As far as just a simple return and only four powerheads in the four corners, my concern would be that you're going to have a lot of dead spots, especially around the center overflow box. Not to mention the tank is 48" deep. I think you're going to need flow coming from lower in the water column. And the center overflow box is the perfect place to provide it.
 
Socaltoaz said:
Great link to the calculator! Thank you! I have a 2 inch pipe that drops water 36 inches from the tank to the sump, that equals to about 8000 gallons/hour. The tank will be roughly 800 gallons with the sump another couple hundred gallons or so. is 8000 gallons enough? I can get 2 drains in there which will give me 16000 gallons/hour of flow to the sump. I will need a big pump to pump it all back. Im assuming 8000 is enough for turnover.
Click to expand...

Wait, I think your magic number is 12,500 gph.

Head Height 4 ft tank + 3 ft from tank bottom to sump water level is 7ft.
Pipe diameter 2"

I calculate 12,500.
 
I'm not concerned about noise. The pump is far away in a fully insulated room. However, if we can minimize it, why not.

So one 2 inch drain takes water away. The return is two 2 inch drains as you will lose lots of water pressure going uphill and through 90 degree elbows. The returns come up to the overflow box- and two returns split 4 ways total and come out the side of the overflow box, one per side. These can be set with directional ends so you can customize the direction.

You supplement this with power heads and wave makes strategically placed and there you have your flow taken care of.

I'm liking this a lot better than the closed loop and the potential problems that can occur with that solution.
 
CuzzA said:
Wait, I think your magic number is 12,500 gph.

Head Height 4 ft tank + 3 ft from tank bottom to sump water level is 7ft.
Pipe diameter 2"

I calculate 12,500.
Click to expand...

Ahh good catch. I was measuring from the bottom of the tank. So one 2 inch drain to the dump is plenty.
 
And the returns? Two 2 inch? Split 4 ways at the overflow box? Thanks for all the great feedback. I've been banging my head in the wall trying to figure out if closed loop is absolutely necessary or can it be avoided. It looks like it can be and i don't have to drill holes in my bottom .
 
1000 Gallon Build- Here we go- Lots of Pictures

You're welcome. Here's a calculator to determine the pump you'll need. http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.php
There's a lot of good calculators on the RC homepage.

2x 2" returns sounds perfect.

I'm thinking 4 way split on both. 1 going to the corners with 1" sea swirls. The 2nd return 4 way split over the overflow box (maybe on sea swirls too). And 8 Power heads in or attached to the box. 2 on each plane at different depths. Another option would be 4 gyres on each plane of the box.

I think with that amount of flow you could satisfy just about any hard corals needs and keep detritus from settling.
 
1000 Gallon Build- Here we go- Lots of Pictures

Socaltoaz said:
Here is what I have so far planned with regards to the tank layout:

Click to expand...

Socaltoaz,

After a good nights sleep I came back to look at some of what we discussed. And when looking at the illustration a few things jumped out at me.

First, the top of the tank. I'm not sure who's building your tank, but I would definitely make some changes here. It appears this tank has a rather large eurobrace which is going to make it very difficult for you to do any work inside the tank, especially a 48" deep tank. I would see if the builder could instead do a stainless steel powder coasted rim. If not, which I don't see any reason why they can't, you will definitely want to have free access to the overflow box. The way it looks now it doesn't appear you could even remove the standpipe if you ever needed to.

Second I would completely eliminate the use of lids. Screen would be fine, but a large eurobrace coupled with lids is A) Going to reduce gas exchange and B) Constantly have water spots and salt spray, substantially reducing light penetration. And on a 48" deep tank it will be challenging enough to get enough par to the bottom, not to mention the constant cleaning. On a tank with a canopy I don't see the need for anything above the tank. No lid, screen, etc. The only top that should be covered is the overflow box. Black egg crate would be the solution there.

Next, we discussed a little about flow rates for the drain and what not, but not so much the type of drain you'll be using. If I understand correctly you have 6x 2" pipes right? So here's what I would do. I would run a beananimal drain. This will require 3 pipes in the overflow box. 1 is a full siphon, 2 is an open channel back up that has a trigger mechanism to convert it from a durso to a full siphon, 3 is an open emergency. This setup will be completely silent and fail safe. There's a lengthy thread in the DIY forum titled "silent and fail safe overflow". Also you can read more about it on beans website I linked earlier.

Now, that leaves us with 3 more pipes. As we discussed, if you ran 2x returns back though the overflow we have one remaining pipe. I would use the sixth and final pipe as a floor drain. Just in case anything from the display or sump were to fail at least all the water would exit the area and not ruin your new home.

Finally, you now have 5x 2" pipes coming through your overflow box. 8x8 isn't going to cut it. The size of the box is going to have to be determined by how much area the bulkheads take up. My guess is you're looking at a box around 15+ inches or so. this may sound like a bad thing as I know you want to minimize anything that appears artificial, but it's really not bad and here's why. The overflow box is going to clear the surface scum on the top of the water. 8x8 or 32 linear inches is nothing on a 96x48 tank. I would suspect you'll have a lot of surface scum which will substantially reduce light penetration. IMO, the target for linear inches of surface skimming should be the longest width of one pane. In your case that would be 96 inches. But obviously 96 linear inches would be a huge box so if it ends up being 15x15 or 60 linear inches of overflow, just remember it's a good thing.

One final thought is on electrical. Is there electrical service under the tank? If not I would probably think about adding it or consider yet another bulkhead and pipe in the overflow box to run wire from the hood to the sump.

I actually just setup a 125 gallon glass cylinder in an office that has a center overflow so I have some experience with island style tanks.

I hope this helps.
 
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CuzzA said:
Socaltoaz,

After a good nights sleep I came back to look at some of what we discussed. And when looking at the illustration a few things jumped out at me.

First, the top of the tank. I'm not sure who's building your tank, but I would definitely make some changes here. It appears this tank has a rather large eurobrace which is going to make it very difficult for you to do any work inside the tank, especially a 48" deep tank. I would see if the builder could instead do a stainless steel powder coasted rim. If not, which I don't see any reason why they can't, you will definitely want to have free access to the overflow box. The way it looks now it doesn't appear you could even remove the standpipe if you ever needed to.

Ill ask about the change in the top. Id rather not discuss at this point who is building the tank. Lets just say that Im committed to the tank with them as Ive already given deposit. They have a good reputation and we will pick this up later.


Second I would completely eliminate the use of lids. Screen would be fine, but a large eurobrace coupled with lids is A) Going to reduce gas exchange and B) Constantly have water spots and salt spray, substantially reducing light penetration. And on a 48" deep tank it will be challenging enough to get enough par to the bottom, not to mention the constant cleaning. On a tank with a canopy I don't see the need for anything above the tank. No lid, screen, etc. The only top that should be covered is the overflow box. Black egg crate would be the solution there.


Good suggestion. Ill see what can be done to change the top.



Next, we discussed a little about flow rates for the drain and what not, but not so much the type of drain you'll be using. If I understand correctly you have 6x 2" pipes right? So here's what I would do. I would run a beananimal drain. This will require 3 pipes in the overflow box. 1 is a full siphon, 2 is an open channel back up that has a trigger mechanism to convert it from a durso to a full siphon, 3 is an open emergency. This setup will be completely silent and fail safe. There's a lengthy thread in the DIY forum titled "silent and fail safe overflow". Also you can read more about it on beans website I linked earlier.

I read about this on the link you provided- frankly I need to review it again as I quickly glanced at it.


Now, that leaves us with 3 more pipes. As we discussed, if you ran 2x returns back though the overflow we have one remaining pipe. I would use the sixth and final pipe as a floor drain. Just in case anything from the display or sump were to fail at least all the water would exit the area and not ruin your new home.

No need to use the 6th pipe as a drain. In addition to the six pipes, there is already a large drain in the floor of not only the tank area but also the fish room. 6th pipe will be a back up.


Finally, you now have 5x 2" pipes coming through your overflow box. 8x8 isn't going to cut it. The size of the box is going to have to be determined by how much area the bulkheads take up. My guess is you're looking at a box around 15+ inches or so. this may sound like a bad thing as I know you want to minimize anything that appears artificial, but it's really not bad and here's why. The overflow box is going to clear the surface scum on the top of the water. 8x8 or 32 linear inches is nothing on a 96x48 tank. I would suspect you'll have a lot of surface scum which will substantially reduce light penetration. IMO, the target for linear inches of surface skimming should be the longest width of one pane. In your case that would be 96 inches. But obviously 96 linear inches would be a huge box so if it ends up being 15x15 or 60 linear inches of overflow, just remember it's a good thing.

Agree with this. Im thinking a long elongated box - something like 14X10 probably makes more sense for the overflow



One final thought is on electrical. Is there electrical service under the tank? If not I would probably think about adding it or consider yet another bulkhead and pipe in the overflow box to run wire from the hood to the sump.

Electrical is already set up above and below the tank.


I actually just setup a 125 gallon glass cylinder in an office that has a center overflow so I have some experience with island style tanks.



I hope this helps.
Click to expand...

It helps a ton! Great feedback and great community here. I know that tI already have my consultants and fish guys doing a lot of the work but it really helps to get some unbiased opinions here.
 
CuzzA said:
On a tank with a canopy I don't see the need for anything above the tank. No lid, screen, etc. The only top that should be covered is the overflow box. Black egg crate would be the solution there.
Click to expand...
Sorry, but if the top has any euro or cross braces (or any area for a fish to land on), a screen is needed... In fact a fish could even land on the light fixture if low enough... Egg crate is useless with most wrasses...1/4" netting works best
 
albano said:
Sorry, but if the top has any euro or cross braces (or any area for a fish to land on), a screen is needed... In fact a fish could even land on the light fixture if low enough... Egg crate is useless with most wrasses...1/4" netting works best
Click to expand...

Indeed if there is a large area typically found on eurobraced tanks a screen would be needed. However you took that statement out of context as I suggested losing the eurobrace altogether and go with a stainless steel rim and cross braces. Which in that case would not require any screen on a tank with a canopy. Perhaps I didn't make that point very clear. However, eggcrate is 3/8" square as opposed to 1/4" netting. We can't make a blanket condemnation of eggcrate as its relative to the size of the smallest fish. And there aren't many fish that we keep that would fit through 3/8". I prefer eggcrate as not only is it rigid and doesn't require any framing, it is also very effective at being used for its intended purpose, light diffusion. Therefore reducing algae growth on the weir and inside the overflow box.

Now it may be wise, especially in this case with a large center overflow, to make a cone, so to speak, so a fish doesn't get trapped on top.

Another excellent alternative to keep fish out of the overflow is plastic gutter guard commonly found at Ace Hardware.
 
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