120g stock help.
- Thread starter fishmanstan
- Start date
fishmanstan
New member
Ok. Thank you.
Ambition
New member
Because he was asking for adding in more fish, not removing fish? To be perfectly honest, if OP wanted to put in a shark it wouldn't be anyone's right to tell him he can't - just to advise against it, which is fine, but his mind seems made up and he didn't ask for thoughts on his current fish. Even so, I personally think Zebrasoma tangs adapt extraordinarily well to the vigors of captivity compared to, say, your average Acanthurus tang - and I've seen more than enough of those in small tanks! A 120g', 4' tank, if aquascaped correctly, is a fine home for a Yellow Tang IMO (at least for a good while). OP, do your own 'thang, but just be sure to make an educated purchase. It's your tank - don't let anyone else tell you what to do. Just my opinion!
Jane
P.S. I think Liveaquaria's tank size suggestions are just fine.
I advised on removing/switching fish out of the current stock for reasons stated earlier. Also, I did tell him about adding what he wanted to at the bottom of my first post.
Just because someone puts a tang in a small tank doesn't make it right. I personally feel that yellow tangs need larger tanks with a larger footprint. RC states that a 5ft long 100 gallon tank being minimal for yellow tangs. The most important part being 5ft, not the 100 gallons.
OP, Jane is right about it being your tank. I was giving advice on some issues you most likely will run into in the future. Like I said before, be sure to do your homework (RC is a good place to learn, but make sure you read articles and such as well).
Meus
Member
Because he was asking for adding in more fish, not removing fish? To be perfectly honest, if OP wanted to put in a shark it wouldn't be anyone's right to tell him he can't - just to advise against it, which is fine, but his mind seems made up and he didn't ask for thoughts on his current fish. Even so, I personally think Zebrasoma tangs adapt extraordinarily well to the vigors of captivity compared to, say, your average Acanthurus tang - and I've seen more than enough of those in small tanks! A 120g', 4' tank, if aquascaped correctly, is a fine home for a Yellow Tang IMO (at least for a good while). OP, do your own 'thang, but just be sure to make an educated purchase. It's your tank - don't let anyone else tell you what to do. Just my opinion!
Jane
P.S. I think Liveaquaria's tank size suggestions are just fine.
Telling him he can't do it and advising against it is the exact same thing over the internet. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Its cruel to permanently house a large fish in a small tank, no matter the circumstances. It is the OP's tank, but again, this is all my opinion. I'm not saying he must do this or that or else he'll fail, but again, you have to think about the fish's health. As stated earlier footprint is way more important than total gallons. Also, LA is trying to sell fish. They are retailers, not researchers. They could put 30g min. for a yellow tang and it would be perfectly within their rights. They put 100g to please the general populous, but many people agree that most need larger. They also put 180g for a cat shark, but the majority of cat shark keepers would recommend nothing below 8'. Research is the key to success in the hobby.
"To be perfectly honest, if OP wanted to put in a shark it wouldn't be anyone's right to tell him he can't"
Actually, it would be perfectly within my rights to tell him not to. So long as I do not violate RC's UA I can tell him to do whatever I want. Does that me he is going to? Probably not. Its obvious at this point that the OP will not listen to my advice, nor that of others so long as its not what he wants to hear. So Good Luck, and I hope LA provides you with good information.
fishmanstan
New member
It's not that I won't listen to you, Meus, its that I don't agree. I read a thread that said someone had a 700g and kept a yellow tang for 14 YEARS! they said it maxed out at 5". It was on one of the threads JaneG started for reference.
aandfsoccr04
Active member
The two pairs of clowns, as soon as they become sexually mature, will become one pair.
The two cardinals are hopefully tank bred and hopefully a mated male and female pair or they will probably become one.
The chromis will more than likely wittle down to one or two.
Mandarins need a ton of pods and constantly forage so I'd wait minimum a year with a healthy pod population before considering one.
Two different species of anemones in the same tank is also playing with fire. It's not recommended but may work out for you.
I probably wouldn't add much more fish than you have to your tank and I have the same tank. Good luck with whatever you choose and happy reefing :thumbsup:
The two cardinals are hopefully tank bred and hopefully a mated male and female pair or they will probably become one.
The chromis will more than likely wittle down to one or two.
Mandarins need a ton of pods and constantly forage so I'd wait minimum a year with a healthy pod population before considering one.
Two different species of anemones in the same tank is also playing with fire. It's not recommended but may work out for you.
I probably wouldn't add much more fish than you have to your tank and I have the same tank. Good luck with whatever you choose and happy reefing :thumbsup:
JaneG
New member
For the record, I think all tangs deserve the largest possible quarters, but that isn't always possible. That being said:
First and foremost, I would suggest relooking over LiveAquaria's tank size suggestions. A good majority of them are on the high side and they are known for being likely the best fish supplier bar none for good reason. They don't just go willy-nilly on their tank sizes, care guides, etc. Are they always 100% accurate? No, but that's the responsibility of the buyer to research. But looking around at some places that have no interest in selling fish: aquaticcommunity, among others, suggests only 60g. That's not what I would think, but they still have no interest in selling the fish.
Regarding health, take a look here. This is just one experience with tangs in cramped quarters, but I've read quite a few others and even seen others (we get in lots of "rescues") that are similar.
120g is small for a yellow tang? Even cruel? Try this on for size. Even some tank of the months have YTs in smaller quarters. I realize it isn't the best argument to say "worse things have happened," but that's just what it is. Countless people have come into our store wanting to buy tangs for biocubes - that's not ok in my book, but I'm sure many of them just move onto the next store to buy their Tang. At least it's a better habitat than that.
Let's play Devil's advocate for a minute. First and foremost, we need to consider way more factors than footprint or tank size, most importantly: tankmates, temperature, aquascape, amount of rock, and flow.
Anthias are a great example of the "flow" requirement for swimming. Tangs are often said to swim for miles per day, which is true, but so do a lot of anthias - the difference being they hover, but must fight the water current to stay in place. They swim for miles per day. Yet many people have no objection to a single male anthias in smaller quarters? Hmm.
Take a look around on underseaproductions and look at some "active" fish that can be kept in "smaller" quarters (~50g) - flasher and fairy wrasse, chromis, or even some dwarf angels. Most of these fish are extremely active in the wild, yet it's ok for them to be kept in smaller quarters? Why?
It's also interesting to note that on wetwebmedia, 50g is the (from what I've seen) suggested tank size for Zebrasoma tangs. That seems way, way low to me but it's from Bob Fenner who has a very strong reputation.
Nevermind the fact that we're talkin' a Yellow Tang here: not a super-active Powder Blue Tang, Sohal, or Clown Tang. These guys are highly adaptive as I've said and I rarely see "pacing" behavior with them that is so often reported with other tangs. Do they use up all their swimming space? Sure, but so do most other fish.
Few things are cut and dry in this hobby: tank size is not among these. Without a picture of the tank, I honestly don't know if this is a suitable habitat for the Tang. I've read estimates 300,000 yellow tangs are exported from Hawaii per year: considering the sheer amount of uneducated hobbyists, I'm willing to bet OP's is one of the luckier ones. After him saying:
"I am not removing anything."
I'm surprised this wasn't just left alone, agree or disagree. If you want to continue, you're free to PM me but I don't want to murky up OP's topic anymore, so my apologies there fishmanstan. :wavehand:
First and foremost, I would suggest relooking over LiveAquaria's tank size suggestions. A good majority of them are on the high side and they are known for being likely the best fish supplier bar none for good reason. They don't just go willy-nilly on their tank sizes, care guides, etc. Are they always 100% accurate? No, but that's the responsibility of the buyer to research. But looking around at some places that have no interest in selling fish: aquaticcommunity, among others, suggests only 60g. That's not what I would think, but they still have no interest in selling the fish.
Regarding health, take a look here. This is just one experience with tangs in cramped quarters, but I've read quite a few others and even seen others (we get in lots of "rescues") that are similar.
120g is small for a yellow tang? Even cruel? Try this on for size. Even some tank of the months have YTs in smaller quarters. I realize it isn't the best argument to say "worse things have happened," but that's just what it is. Countless people have come into our store wanting to buy tangs for biocubes - that's not ok in my book, but I'm sure many of them just move onto the next store to buy their Tang. At least it's a better habitat than that.
Let's play Devil's advocate for a minute. First and foremost, we need to consider way more factors than footprint or tank size, most importantly: tankmates, temperature, aquascape, amount of rock, and flow.
Anthias are a great example of the "flow" requirement for swimming. Tangs are often said to swim for miles per day, which is true, but so do a lot of anthias - the difference being they hover, but must fight the water current to stay in place. They swim for miles per day. Yet many people have no objection to a single male anthias in smaller quarters? Hmm.
Take a look around on underseaproductions and look at some "active" fish that can be kept in "smaller" quarters (~50g) - flasher and fairy wrasse, chromis, or even some dwarf angels. Most of these fish are extremely active in the wild, yet it's ok for them to be kept in smaller quarters? Why?
It's also interesting to note that on wetwebmedia, 50g is the (from what I've seen) suggested tank size for Zebrasoma tangs. That seems way, way low to me but it's from Bob Fenner who has a very strong reputation.
Nevermind the fact that we're talkin' a Yellow Tang here: not a super-active Powder Blue Tang, Sohal, or Clown Tang. These guys are highly adaptive as I've said and I rarely see "pacing" behavior with them that is so often reported with other tangs. Do they use up all their swimming space? Sure, but so do most other fish.
Few things are cut and dry in this hobby: tank size is not among these. Without a picture of the tank, I honestly don't know if this is a suitable habitat for the Tang. I've read estimates 300,000 yellow tangs are exported from Hawaii per year: considering the sheer amount of uneducated hobbyists, I'm willing to bet OP's is one of the luckier ones. After him saying:
"I am not removing anything."
I'm surprised this wasn't just left alone, agree or disagree. If you want to continue, you're free to PM me but I don't want to murky up OP's topic anymore, so my apologies there fishmanstan. :wavehand:
Last edited:
fishmanstan
New member
No apologies needed, Jane. I agree with what you say. It may sound silly, but no matter the dimensions, no tank will be as big as the ocean is.
mthomp
New member
why when ever some one post stocking and there is a tang in the mix, it turns into this and derails the OPs thread?
OP as i said in my first post. The mandarin will quickly decimate your pods in your young tank, and there really will be no way for you to keep up with its needs just yet. Give it at least a year with nothing in your tank that will compete and a good refugium.
OP as i said in my first post. The mandarin will quickly decimate your pods in your young tank, and there really will be no way for you to keep up with its needs just yet. Give it at least a year with nothing in your tank that will compete and a good refugium.
fishmanstan
New member
I have read they can be weaned...Also that they eat amphipods....is this true? I know they can be wesned, but how difficult is it? Are the ora mandys worth it? I heard they don't accept prepared foods in some cases.
JaneG
New member
I've heard some good and bad about the ORA Mandarins. Some will disagree, but if you want a pellet or frozen mandarin, I say go for captive bred.
I had a pair of ORA Spotted Mandarins but now only have the female (took the male back after 6 months because he was aggressive with her). They started out in my 20g, but the female moved with my upgrade of that tank to 125g. My female eats New life spectrum .5mm pellets, probably because she wasn't stressed out from all the fighting. I used to feed them 3x per day in my nano, but now only feed her once per day and she's doing super well (almost 1 year later) in my 125g.
My experience from seeing them at the shop is that generally they either will eat pellets or won't, but most can't resist Nutramar Ova (even most wild mandarins will eat this stuff). Ask to see them feeding before you buy one.
Also, they don't eat amphipods - they're too big. They eat copepods (the little white specs on your glass pretty much) though. You can wean wild-caught mandarins, but it takes time, money, and patience.
mthomp
New member
they stopped selling the ora mandarins as they were really as hit and miss as any other mandarin. as far as teaching them to eat frozen foods or pellets part of the problem you will run into is getting the food to them. They are very meticulous eaters and unless the food gets right in front of them they may never get it. Some have had success using a feeding dish or a bottle but again it is very hit or miss where missing is more common here.
To give you an idea, the 2 lfs I visit will tell you more die to starvation in their tanks then they sell.
To give you an idea, the 2 lfs I visit will tell you more die to starvation in their tanks then they sell.
fishmanstan
New member
Do they eat Tigger copepods? I read they ate amphipods....maybe they do as adults...I don't know. The ones I see in my sump and tank arent very big. Will the Mandy est red bugs and other coral diseases if need be?
fishmanstan
New member
Will they eat flatworms? Acro eating nudies? Zoa spiders?
JaneG
New member
Where did you get the idea ORA Mandarins won't be coming back? Lots of ORA fish are only available now and then. According to this (~1 month ago) they'll be back. You also can't forget: success is reported on less than failure.
Not exactly. I haven't personally witnessed it, but I've heard many times that they (Spotted Mandarins in particular) have a chance to eat flatworms. According to Sadovy et al. (2001), their wild diet includes Polychaete worms and fish eggs among other things - I'd guess that's why a lot of them accept Nutramar Ova (shrimp eggs I believe?), Masago (sushi topping - basically just Capeline Roe), and even bloodworms.
mthomp
New member
I wont get into an argument over it but no they wont be back.
chance is the key word here not intentional or actively. some will accept bloodworms and brine but its only some and you still got to get the them to the fish.
Bottom line is unless you have a large population of sustainable pods you are not likely to successfully keep one.
chance is the key word here not intentional or actively. some will accept bloodworms and brine but its only some and you still got to get the them to the fish.
Bottom line is unless you have a large population of sustainable pods you are not likely to successfully keep one.
fishmanstan
New member
I understand. Can they hybridize? Can I keep a spotted mandy male with a red mandarin female? Or, red mandy male with green mandy female?
Ambition
New member
Mandarins need to have a tank large enough to sustain them, so larger tanks with refugiums (75 gallon with at least a 20 gallon fuge). This is for the beginner when it comes to mandarins. It makes it slightly easier to care for, and you don't need to worry about starvation from the get go if the mandarin you got was healthy and plump to start with (don't get a skinny mandarin as they are out the door. Their digestive system lacks the enzymes needed to digest any food they eat).
Being that you already have a 120 gallon tank, you meet the minimum DT requirement. Do you have a refugium? If so, wait until your tank is 8-12 months old, 12 months is better, to get the mandarin. Once you have the mandarin you should start training it on to frozen/prepared foods. You can start by feeding live BBS. Slowly mixing in frozen BBS with the live until it is all frozen BBS. Then start mixing adult brine into the mix. Keeping mixing in a new food (don't stay on brine for too long, lacks nutritional value) until you have it eating a variety. I highly suggest keeping a culture of live copepods going so that you can "dose" them to your tank to supplement the existing population.
Just a warning. This is much easier said than done, and there are other ways to get mandarins on to frozen/prepared foods.
Being that you already have a 120 gallon tank, you meet the minimum DT requirement. Do you have a refugium? If so, wait until your tank is 8-12 months old, 12 months is better, to get the mandarin. Once you have the mandarin you should start training it on to frozen/prepared foods. You can start by feeding live BBS. Slowly mixing in frozen BBS with the live until it is all frozen BBS. Then start mixing adult brine into the mix. Keeping mixing in a new food (don't stay on brine for too long, lacks nutritional value) until you have it eating a variety. I highly suggest keeping a culture of live copepods going so that you can "dose" them to your tank to supplement the existing population.
Just a warning. This is much easier said than done, and there are other ways to get mandarins on to frozen/prepared foods.